magic moments
There is a great post about the burden of proof that I kind of disagree with, but really appreciate the long and entertaining discussion it has generated. By far my favourite comment so far (because it doesn’t seem to be drying up) is this:
But I will put to you the test,when asking me whether God is real. You ask God if he is real, that he show you. If God IS real, wouldn’t he show you? Yes, he would. Have you ever asked? Dare Him to show you. You have nothing to lose. As a matter of fact, you only have something to gain. If God isn’t real and he shows you nothing (over your lifetime – remember he has your whole life) then you have proven your point. If he does show you that he is real and you can gain an eternity in Heaven you win again. Ask Him.
I was reading the ‘dare’ and thinking, what an odd thing to say to an atheist. Ask them to dare something (in their head, on paper, by YouTube?) they don’t think exists to give them a sign. Odd for the atheist, but surely a deity would be insulted! Anyway, my favourite, favourite, favourite part of this is that the deity gets a whole lifetime to show you something: the concrete proof that this god God exists.
Let me think about this. I was brought up a Christian so I was keen for signs that I was indeed ‘saved’ as a child. I remember seeing the face of Jesus before me one time when half asleep and ill. I was delighted. I didn’t dwell too much on the fact that he came to be in the form of a two dimensional painting and that he didn’t say anything to me. I saw him, so I was special, and worth a visit. I also remember as a child, on another occasion half asleep and ill, receiving the vivid revelation that I was a princess put on this earth to find a way to save my people on another planet. I was delighted about this too. Slightly concerned and suspicious that I’d forgotten about it. But pleased to be reminded of my duty, and pleased to be special.
How else could a sign be sent? My next thought was all the crazy dreams I’ve had in life. As a young adult, I had a very vivid dream about an old school friend who I hadn’t seen in about five years. He was in a field with some very odd looking cows and sheep. The next day, I bumped into him in a funfair, holding stuffed animals! Unbelievable I know, and I’m sure you now realise I’m a psychic dreamer! Except for, many years later, I can’t quite pinpoint another time such a dreamy coincidence has occurred. I’ve dreamt about earthquakes the night before they happened … but I soon realised that I didn’t dream about them every time they happened. I dream a lot, a lot of real life events happen. With a bit of imagination there’s always scope to make a ‘magic’ link. If the god God appears at some point in my dreams – is this a sign?
Now, I don’t want to suggest that the sign a deity sends everyone might be along the lines of a two dimensional Jesus painting floating before their eyes or psychic dreams, but I would suggest that when you spend your whole life looking for an indistinct ‘sign’, or indeed signs, anything can really do the trick. Life is full of bizarre moments, thoughts and coincidences that shake your boots. But I’m afraid there isn’t anything that can’t be explained by the chemicals in your head, a drop of science and good, old fashioned chance and probability.
“The General root of superstition is that men observe when things hit, and not when they miss, and commit to memory the one, and pass over the other.” (Francis Bacon)
LikeLike
You trying to sum up my long ramble into one neat quote I probably should have known? Did you take up the dare by the way?
LikeLike
I didn’t, but i did reply to that post, though. I think i reminded Roy that i was a catholic and simply wised up just as soon as i cast a careful, sceptical eye on the whole theism thing. Theists like him like to think we never had religion, or were damaged by it somehow. He’s not such a bad bloke, though. At least he engages.
LikeLike
What do you think though about the observation, theism is unnatural?
LikeLike
I don’t get it. I think it’s completely natural for the very reason you state – we’re naturally superstitious. Maybe we evolved this way because caution and obedience born from superstition lead to thriving societies, who knows. I totally agree that no-one is going to ‘sense’ the same form of theism given a blank slate, but I think in the absence of any scientific understanding, it’s fascinating that humans always imagine some kind of deity. Even though science doesn’t explain everything, I think the final nail in the coffin of religion for people who want to be rational about it, is the usual thing that all religions can’t be right and people just accept the one they’re born into. But there is the argument that they do all exist in some form. Of course the deities would have to be competitive, lying and petty beings that don’t manage to get their message across very well. It’s highly unlikely but it’s not completely outwith the realms of possibility. Anyway, none of that undermines your point that there’s no actual evidence that gods exists.
I was going to do a post about it, but I think I’d be too embarrassed to suggest it’s possible there’s a bunch of tinkering, petty beings outside our existence vying for the worship of humans. The Jewish god God seems to be winning by masterfully broadening his support base in a multifaceted political campaign that tells each society what they want to hear? Something like that.
LikeLike
Oh, you should definitely do a post on that! I’m doing a follow up on that last post mostly based on your disagreement. I’d already done a post on it, a big one ages ago, but no one read it so I’m going to re-hash it. There is a point where the unnatural becomes the natural, but its not actually superstition. It’s deeper than that.
LikeLike
Look forward to reading it!
LikeLike
As i look forward to reading yours!
LikeLike
There was sort of similar thing about Prayer a while back, someone issued a 30(?) day challenge to atheists that God would answer, whether one was sincere or not. Someone over at Pathos, Bob Siedensecker, I think, took it up and wrote a sort of diary.
You can guess what the outcome was, I’m sure?
It should be mandatory for churches and all religious organisations to display a sign outside their establishments that reads. “Leave your Commonsense Outside.”
LikeLike
🙂
LikeLike
Oh, nice bird photo, by the way. Looks a bot like one of the species of Sunbird that visit my garden over here in Johannesburg.
LikeLike
Thanks! That there photo compliment puts you back up there as my favourite blogger! Even though I can’t read poetry and I don’t understand your stories.
LikeLike
It’s okay, honestly. There are blogs that attract a bizzillion comments and ‘likes’ and people apparently hose themselves laughing at the content and I merely go Huh?
Go figure?
I can’ t read poetry either…and I sure as hell can’t write it.
My brother thinks Terry Pratchett is for idiots and children. Yet I truly believe the man is a literary genius. What would the world be if we were all the same?
Although, in my defense,no body has yet complained about my novel, Almost Dead in Suburbia.
Even John Zande liked it…and he’s Australian! There is hope for the world, yet. 🙂
LikeLike
Careful Ark… Or I might just start talking about Australia-English sporting history 🙂
LikeLike