a bloody mess
The illustrious Tradition of the Church, which includes the likes of Augustine, Aquinas, and Teresa of Avila ….
In my current little corner of the world there are a few odd religions taking hold. Beliefs that are a delightful blend of Catholicism, various other religions carried to Brazil from Africa and any other superstitious belief that occurs to the flock. I’m kept awake some nights by the drumming from the local church and listen to the odd ceremonial chimes with a shudder in my spine, wondering what warm-blooded animal they may be slicing into. Another nice feature of these religions is the trays of chicken heads and other assorted horrors that can be left in public places where someone has done a ‘curse’. It all seems terribly superstitious and primitive, not like the sensible and civilised, blood-free religion of my youth.
Although, now that I think about it, one of the many things about Christianity that surprisingly didn’t strike me as particularly odd, was that the god God likes animals to be killed in order to pay a supernatural debt owed for bad human behaviour. It strikes me as odd now. Why would such an almighty deity want chickens and lambs to be ripped open in an act of apologetic worship? What would a divine being get from such an unpleasant exercise? Why would a nice deity want animals to suffer? And to the extent of being so fussy as to say that “anything with its testicles bruised or crushed or torn or cut, you shall not offer to the Lord”. How could an intelligent, benevolent, all-seeing god be reconciled with all that petty, weird nonsense? After all, morality is timeless.
The last lamb to the slaughter in the Christian story is Jesus. A nice man-god who didn’t do bad things, so didn’t have to personally kill animals. In fact, when he died, the animal kingdom breathed a sigh of relief, as the rules changed with his reportedly ultimate sacrifice. That was a long time ago and signals the end of Christianity’s connection to blood rituals.
Well, except for the bit where lots of Christians genuinely believe that during Communion, the cheap wine and wafers from the supermarket are magically transformed, and they are eating the actual body and drinking the very blood of their man-god who walked this earth over 2000 years ago. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but something about that just doesn’t seem probable. Or scientifically possible. Or in any way pleasant. But I guess if the wisest and brightest minds have been studying this for 2000 years, it must be true.
interesting thoughts. For me I know I’m partaking in the actual blood of Christ or His body. It’s just a symbolic gesture. That is suppose to be a reminder that Jesus shed His blood for my sins.
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@Photosbyandy
”That is suppose to be a reminder that Jesus shed His blood for my sins.”
You have got to be kidding, right?
And you utter such trite with haughty aplomb and yet are unable to see that this is ritualistic cannibalism with its roots in human sacrifice.
Firstly what possible good..nah forget it. It will be like discussing quantum mechanics with my boxer dogs, and I have a sneaky feeling both would at least offer a cogent reply. Woof woof!
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God HATES Shrimp.
Leviticus 11: 9-12
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Jesus was actually Lucifer in disguise. God sent him up from hell to be tortured as a man, but he didn’t expect Lucifer to convince everyone he was his son!! Lucifer is one tricky devil.
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Prove it! 🙂
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I probably could make a pretty strong case if I could focus on it.
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I bet it’s based that dubious old book and a funny feeling.
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I took some GIFs out of my footer (that I had forgotten about). Let me know if my page opens faster for you next time you’re there.
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I don’t really notice a difference I’m afraid. I don’t personally mind waiting a minute for it to load – you know, now that I know you’re not just spam liker. 🙂
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A MINUTE? Oh, jesus.
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I just believe that Jesus died to save us from our sins. and we partake in a SYMBOLIC gesture of communion as a reminder of that sacrifice. I in no way believe that it is the actual blood and body of Christ. That would just weird me out.
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I do NOT! I also like prawns, so there!
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Thanks for reading and giving your perspective. In principle, I understand the ritualistic ceremonial aspect of regularly paying tribute to something of importance you believe happened. However, I find it beyond bizarre that so many people today still accept a medieval interpretation suggesting a physical change actually occurs. It makes their brand of Christianity undeniably cannibalistic in belief.
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@photosbyandy.
‘I just believe that Jesus died to save us from our sins’.
Really? You truly, truly believe this?
Well, first, I’ll bet half a dollar you don’t even know what this means; that you are merely repeating doctrine you have been inculcated with since you were a kid who got down on his knees and prayed to Jesus that your mum never found the Playboy hidden under your mattress and hoped to goodness you never went blind but promised yourself it would be okay as long as you stopped if ever you had to wear glasses.
And if this is really the deal, that he dies for (not mine) your sons, then considering how many people wear glasses he was sacrificed for nothing, wasn’t he?
Watch Life of Brian. It at least is more real.
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Ark, I don’t wish to offend your sensitive nature but please try to remember those Golden Rules of Dialogue. You’re sounding a bit ranty there and photosbyandy hasn’t said anything even the slightest bit offensive.
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Have to watch the quiet ones. Shucks…oh, all right.
Sorry Andy. Pray away my ol’ son. Whatever floats your Ark…er.. ark
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….sons and sins, no doubt.
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I’ve watched Life of Brian and found it very funny. However, that still doesn’t change my beliefs. I sorry we don’t share the same beliefs, but that’s cool. We are all entitled to our own beliefs. I’m not one to hammer people over the head with the Bible and its teachings. I know some people do, and I think its wrong. There are better ways to share Jesus with people. I respect your view point, and sometimes it does seem crazy to believe in God. But I’m ok with that.
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Apologies,,Andy. I was getting into my Ghostbuster mode there. You are right, of course.
Long as it makes you happy.
I too am sorry we don;t share the same beliefs.
But, you never what’s around the corner, right?
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true that.
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The Levitical sacrificial code symbolized the awareness of the one presenting the offering that his sins had separated him from the creator of life and that he deserved death. It was a tangible, graphic reminder that sin really damaged life and demanded recourse.
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“All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you.” Leviticus 11:20-22
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I find it absurd to suggest that any form of perceived ‘badness’ separates people from a creator. The whole notion of ‘sin’ offends me to my very core – it undermines people’s abilities to make logical decisions and live their natural empathetic lives, and encourages people to feel less responsible for their actions than they actually are.
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Humanity in a state of nature isn’t empathetic. In the words of Thomas Hobbes, our lives are naturally “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.”
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I think I’d prefer not to base my understanding of humanity around the words of a 17th century philosopher. It’s fair to say that society has changed somewhat since then, and we have considerably vaster information resources in the fields of science and psychological understanding. In the past, people had to fight for food, land and life itself. They had little understanding of strangers, beyond their town or country, and used their natural suspicion and fear to protect themselves and their own, in order to survive. Humanity has definitely moved beyond this.
Life can indeed still be “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” but it’s not always the case, and most people (atheists included) work towards changing that, simply following an urge to improve conditions for their children, which naturally extends to all other people. We do not need an imaginary deity to tell us this – it’s logical.
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You seem to know less about history than you do about theology. Humanity did more politically motivated killing in the 20th century under atheistic regimes than in the previous 19 centuries combined. Humanity still kills for survival, if they’re not living an elitist, suburban, American bubble. Humanity hasn’t moved anywhere, we just have cooler toys.
The existence of God is more logical than the wild speculation that humanity blindly occurred in a finely tuned universe with an inexplicable cause.
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How many religions did you study BEFORE you decided on yours? The before part extremely important.
Also, please tell us your background in theoretical physics?
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“You seem to know less about history than you do about theology.” Haha, nice. It’s true I don’t know much about either.
“Humanity did more politically motivated killing in the 20th century under atheistic regimes than in the previous 19 centuries combined.” That’s an interesting soundbite that ignores population growth, societal and technological advances, Hitler, and centuries of Christian-led atrocities. I like your soundbite though, I think it deserves some deeper delving for a future post.
“Humanity still kills for survival, if they’re not living an elitist, suburban, American bubble.” Interesting, is that the bubble you’re living in? As a well-travelled European living in a working-class household in the third world, I can inform you that some places outside the USA are actually surprisingly civilised.
“The existence of God is more logical than the wild speculation that humanity blindly occurred in a finely tuned universe with an inexplicable cause.”
Yes, humanity’s amazing, isn’t it? We’re so clever and special, we must have been invented by a super duper deity that wants us to eat his dead body and drink his 2000 year old blood, because he made us ‘bad’. I like your logic!
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I always get a little … saddened, disturbed, confused … by statements like this. If an intelligent man like Hobbes were somehow reborn today, he would RUSH to revise all of the statements he made in the 1600s & be ashamed of those who regurgitated them.
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Good point. Can’t blame him for not having all the facts to hand.
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Great piece! I remember George Gamow: when he was a little boy, he put communion bread and wine under a microscope, because he wanted to see transubstantiation. In retrospect, he said the results of this experiment made him a scientist. That’s really all it takes, sometimes. (Gamow went on to study the Big Bang, instead.)
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What a cool story! People really do need to analyse and question their traditional beliefs like that.
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Ah, you have Candomblé there, too! The pleasantries of walking my dogs only to find the little shrines under trees.
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Is that what it’s called? Everyone here refers to it as Umbanda, which strictly I don’t think it is, although it’s probably another of the influences.
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It probably goes by a million names. here its called Candomblé, but even that isn’t accurate. You have white Candomblé and black Candomblé which includes the dead chickens. A few weeks ago i found (with my nose first, from about 50m away) a shrine with about 30 rotten eggs and black candles. Strange stuff.
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Dear Violet, is that not a Damselfly?
Smashing photo by the way.
Oh..and see your pic and raise you One Shot On The Wing.
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Hmm, on closer look, probably not.
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I don’t know much about the subtleties of insect classification. They are such gorgeous creatures though!
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Not the best and brightest minds, necessarily, and not necessarily true- but worth considering. What on Earth do people see in it? Those who just want a nice, simple understanding of the World and rules to live by- never mind that the rules immorally condemn gay people, condemned slaves after atheists ceased to- get that, but what do others get?
I have heard a couple of arguments on that- very intelligent people who adopt a position for non-rational reasons then devote their intelligence to finding reasons for it, and (related) Confirmation bias- and- are we just benighted and wrong? Might there be any value to it?
That is not the best rhetorical flourish for me to end on, I know, because there is a very simple answer to it, but it is not my answer.
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I think it’s difficult to use the excuse that lots of intelligent people in the past thought something so it must be true. Our understanding of life, and the access we now have to information on every aspect of life around the world, has made the opinions of dead people largely irrelevant. Beyond being blocks that have since been built on, or destroyed.
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That was not what I argued, my argument was deprecating my religious position- but, in answer to you, Creationism has a lot to answer for in that it casts Christianity as a hypothesis. I call it a story. Shakespeare or Murasaki Shikibu are not largely irrelevant. And- wheels are still round.
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I think most of what you say goes over my head, but I do enjoy conversing at cross purposes with you. It’s like riddles I half understand that make me think of something I hadn’t considered before, but when I reply to you I realise it’s not what you had in mind. Know what I mean?
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I still have it in my head that Christians—rather than opting for the ‘symbolism’ escape clause—genuinely believe that the wafer and wine become the actual flesh and blood of Christ.
Yuk.
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I don’t know, even the symbolism way of doing it is kind of weird. You died, I’m sad (but happy I benefit from it) so I’m going to drink some red wine to think about your blood. And eat this bread and think of your body.
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Computer’s onboard dictionary:
“Consubstantiation |ˌkɒnsəbstanʃɪˈeɪʃ(ə)n| |-sɪ-|
noun Christian Theology
the doctrine, esp. in Lutheran belief, that the substance of the bread and wine coexists with the body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist. Compare with transubstantiation .
“Coexists” isn’t that sweet? Is that a pussyfoot, or not?
However modern the modern interpretation gets: my generation (and earliers) had it pounded in that the wafer become real meat and the wine became genuine Jesus’s blood. Yuk~!
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Pastor Miller above stated “The Levitical sacrificial code symbolized the awareness …” but what I believe he meant was “this is one of the formulas we use to control people’s minds and scare up more funds for our Ministry”.
Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Vishnu and Charlie … all tools used to milk the gullible on behalf of the unscrupulous. A ‘religion’ is merely a franchise; and in Christianity there are untold numbers of mutually eviscerating franchises.
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