taking sex seriously
I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Christians take sex very seriously. It’s only to be done within the sacred confines of a marriage between a woman and a man. And no divorcing and remarrying while your first spouse is still alive. You are committing a sin if you look at a member of the opposite sex and think, for a second, what would it be like? And let’s not even discuss what forbidden activities two men or two women could get up to (although the fact that Jesus didn’t have much to say about this doesn’t stop the damning ‘rules’ spilling out of third-time married pastors’ mouths).
Thankfully, I’m free from all this utter nonsense. The random words of men from 2000 years ago don’t determine the nature of my sexual activities. Atheists, throw off the shackles of sexual repression and get out there and have some fun!
However, there are at least two reasons I think it’s wise to take sex seriously.
The first one is the little matter of some potential consequences: unwanted pregnancies and the spread of disease. And for those reasons, I am going to controversially declare that the principle of marriage was a useful one in earlier centuries, before we had reliable birth and disease control in the handy form of The Condom. The pressure to keep sex within a committed relationship ensured that women alone weren’t always left to deal with the consequences of sex, and that children were more likely to be raised in a stable environment. But even today, with our condom friend to protect us, I think people need to be clear before they dive in, that the hormonal urges they are about to fulfill can still result in pregnancy or the acquisition of disease. That’s why I’m always banging on about the need for good sex education.
The second area I’m serious about relates to how we view sex, and the industries surrounding it, as a result of our emancipation from prescriptive religious sexual regulations. It’s great to make light of the sex industry – little giggles at strippers, prostitutes and semi-naked pictures of (mostly) women. We all appreciate sex, nothing dirty about it, so it’s all fun, right? To be honest, I’m don’t really know.
I don’t know where the acceptability of paying for pictures of naked women becomes the acceptability of paying for live dancing women, and then becomes the acceptability of paying to have sex with women. Perhaps if in all these cases the women are making fully informed choices as consenting adults, it wouldn’t make a difference. But unfortunately when I read studies that street-based sex workers suffer “multiple traumas that typically began in early childhood … Child sexual abuse, adult sexual assault and work related violence were commonly reported.” or newspaper articles about “50,000 Iraqi refugees’ forced into prostitution” or studies that demonstrate that “legalised prostitution increases human trafficking” – I can’t help thinking that if sex were taken more seriously, we might not have these problems.
However, I don’t want to get carried away. This isn’t clearly an issue about ‘sex’ as such. It’s about taking other human beings seriously and treating everyone with the respect you think that you are entitled to. Do you want to get your kit off, spread your legs for the camera and have it circulated to all your nearest and dearest? As a wise man once said:
“Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself.”
Hey, What’sa matta, livelysceptic? No comment???
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Haha, do you think her last post is going to make her paranoid about commenting?
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I hope not!! Come on Mystic Meg!
The chances of her coming back and reading these encouraging words are slim, since i’m not replying to a comment, I guess.
I’m glad to see that you posted about this. It’s good timing. Should be seeing a lot of interesting posts about sex, gay marriage, etc …
PHHEW those Quiners, man. They’re gonna give me a panic attack. I’m starting to question whether or not I have the nerves to follow their blog.
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I meant to say about the Quiners, they are a lost cause. I see now why the Bob person just posts one response – so the response is publicly there as a rebuttal to their nonsense – but doesn’t get dragged into the back and forth with them.
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Yeah I got that, too. They are like wizard of oz meets pink Floyd meets Rush Limbaugh NUTZ.
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That preaching guitar that came in to bore everyone to death with CAPITALS is a bizarre twist. He (assume it’s a guy) quoted a pile of lies to you about the election that all came from one email that was doing the rounds, then when I confronted him said I misquoted him and ignored the rest. Then started ranting about the NHS from more mis-information sources and links that don’t confirm what he’s saying – and spends the whole time getting personal and just trying to make cheap points. I think the Quiners kind of mean well but are soaked in that Christian conservative culture. But the other person screams lying, manipulative bully – like an abusive pastor character from a film I can’t remember. Intriguing.
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‘Quiners’ — ?
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Argus, you could scare the hell out of Tom and Karen Quiner
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I’m not paranoid. That doesn’t mean I’m not being followed: Argus is really tearing through my blog at a great rate of knots. I have to regularly check the comments to see where he’s at.
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That dog, sorry about that. What am I supposed to do, he doesn’t like to walk on a leash.
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oh, and it’s best not to encourage him. IGNORE bad behavior.
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I would, but I fear he’d take me for a theist…
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I see your point. Don’t want to lose a body part.
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He’s been running wild round a couple of my posts too. It’s very difficult to reply to his comments.
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Shit, maybe I don’t pay him enough attention.
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Spending too much time with that new puppy, no doubt …
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Will need to see if Cesar Milan has any advice about blog dogs.
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You don’t pay me at all, dammit.
AND I play second (nay, third, even) fiddle to a blasted monkey …
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http://quinersdiner.com
Get em Argus. Violet & I went round with em a few times.
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And, don’t make me feel like a bad human being, Argus. Bad dog.
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I’m still going …
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I’m working on it…
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Ahhh, I just realized that I’m not worried about making of an ass of myself, because I see glory in making an ass of oneself. This does effect how one sees the commenting process.
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The paths of glory lead but to the grave …
(How the hell did I miss this one last time I lurked?)
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This is great.
It’s pretty damn obvious that abstinence education doesn’t work. I don’t understand the mindset of people who are okay with higher rates of teen pregnancy just for the sake of saying “Abstinence is best.”
I wrote a post a week or two ago that’s closely related to this issue. When I write the follow-up, I’ll be sure to take cues from this as well.
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Are you commenting on the wrong post? I did another one The Abstinence Myth – Adolescents vs Priests. I’ll have a look at your post, I’m sure it’s very entertaining!
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No, no — I just found that one, haha. The abstinence mention was just a reflection on the overall topic.
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I get REALLY steamed up when people suggest abstinence education as the best solution in poor countries.
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It’s not the best solution in developed countries, so what makes anyone think it would work in poor countries? Statistics, people. Statistics.
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The bullshit, “if i can do it, so can they” attitude. My mom gets me piped up about this. She’s a freaking nun, so she expects the rest of the world to be.
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Hate to burst your bubble, but evidence has come to light that she wasn’t always a nun….
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No!!! I was told I was a test tube baby!!!
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I love the “it may have been only once” bit.
We have a moral imperative to try and prevent pregnancy and STD transmission among teens. That should be obvious. Our choice of methods should be whatever is statistically most likely to effect that outcome. Not something driven by dogma that isn’t even based on actual religious teachings.
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Agreed! If only everyone spoke math!
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Rate of change, probability, expectation value, dependent variables….so many concepts I wish they actually taught in schools.
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“We have a moral imperative to try and prevent pregnancy and STD transmission among teens. That should be obvious. Our choice of methods should be whatever is statistically most likely to effect that outcome. Not something driven by dogma that isn’t even based on actual religious teachings.” Okay, I think we’ll copy and paste this round a few blogs (if you don’t mind, physicsandwhiskey)
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Be my guest! And feel free to direct them back to that post I linked earlier, haha. 🙂
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I think the sex industry reinforces stereotypes. That’s one of the things I don’t like about it. Recently, I read an article that described (legalised) prostitution as a ‘victimless crime’ and I didn’t feel comfortable with that observation. The countries that have legalised prostitution have all discovered that the work was not done by nice, middle class ladies but by girls from neighbouring countries who often had their passports confiscated. And worse. So I really agree with your final remark.
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Totally, I doubt it is ever ‘victimless’. I don’t think any argument for legalising prostitution should be based on thinking that it can ever be done without exploiting women. But I also think it’s probably foolish to make it illegal and lose the chance to have some sort of regulation. It’s a really difficult area.
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At the risk of being misinterpreted … I saw a brilliant cartoon once in which two hookers were comparing notes; one was saying to the other— “What kind of business is this~! Ya got it, ya sell it … ya still got it!”
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Thus is one of your two-part posts that begins with the Christian angle then finishes on a note about prostitution and child sex abuse.
I am only a simple man and cannot multitask very well.
I’m too tired to make a meaningful contribution to this post. I need coffee, although I fully endorse the quote
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Come back and read it again when you’ve had a coffee. You inspired part of it. 🙂
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Okay, readit, readit, readit, as the frog said, and I am now just a tad concerned which part of it I was responsible for. Not much…just a tad.
Was it the naughty nun?
Or the issue of respect?
I really hope it was the nun. That crucifix is enough to make a strong man want to go to church 😉
Pray do tell…..
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Yes, it was the nun. It made me feel distinctly uncomfortable, and I was irritated that no-one suggested you remove it. But I was concerned that my reaction wasn’t logical, so it got me thinking about attitudes to sex. I think objectification of women is taken far too lightly. I mean, if you’re happy to take your kit off, snap a picture with a strategically placed crucifix and plaster it up on your blog, then I’ll retract the accusation of double standards and objectification. 🙂 That would be a nice birthday treat for us all.
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Firstly,you haven’t posted a shot with your “kit off” so I’m damned(probably) if I’m going to post one of me first.)
Right. Now define objectifying women? Or men for that matter when clothes are so often designed SPECIFICALLY to attract attention from the opposite sex.
I do not mean the type of crap that people allege about women ‘asking for it’ if they are attacked. Rape has nothing to do with sex – or so the experts say, right?
No. I am talking about the type of clothes that are designed to attract a ‘mate.’
Clothes ( and perfume – scent) that says, nay shouts, ‘LOOK AT ME’.
Clothes that are being worn to specifically convey the message , ‘Ths will come off quick as a flash if you make me feel horny enough.’
If a woman, wears a very short skirt and top that exposes an inordinate amount of flesh what is she telling those she comes in contact with?
You tell me, you’re a woman. And if you say the primary reason you might/do dress like this because it’s comfortable then you are no the intelligent woman I believe you are.
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Firstly, welcome to my blog, new person. Secondly, I’ve not posted any pictures of any naked or semi-naked people on my blog – you have. It’s not a ‘fun’ competition or challenge I’m making, it’s the suggestion that you are objectifying women (promoting the idea that they have little worth beyond their physical appearance and use for sex) by assuming it’s acceptable to splash about such pictures of two-dimensional people, when it is something you clearly would be unwilling to do yourself.
You personally may not be a sexist or misogynistic man (although your comments about clothing are pointing in that direction) but the very act of ‘playfully’ displaying mindless pictures of semi-naked women perpetuates the unhealthy attitude that many men have towards women.
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‘If a woman, wears a very short skirt and top that exposes an inordinate amount of flesh what is she telling those she comes in contact with?
You tell me, you’re a woman. And if you say the primary reason you might/do dress like this because it’s comfortable then you are no the intelligent woman I believe you are.’
I think The Far King made a very valid point regarding dress, and it isn’t misogynistic at all, yet you pointedly avoided answering the question directly. Why is this?
Do you believe that if a man dresses in a provocative manner the message he is trying to send is any different?
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Seriously, the fact that you think this is of any relevance to the discussion is shocking. However, it’s your birthday, so I’ll humour your Victorian soul. I chose to dress like that when I was an insecure teenager following fashion. I would call it societal pressure, perpetuated by the images you choose to circulate. However, I would also call it societal pressure that I haven’t dressed like that for 20 years, as leary, unwanted male attention from idiots who misinterpret the use of clothing is one of my pet hates.
Personally, I assume that women who dress like that are one of two things – proud of their body and not in the least bit self-conscious, or very insecure about how attractive they are. I seriously don’t relate it to their desire for sexual contact, as you are clearly implying. Get your mind out of the gutter and have some cake!
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Fine, so if they are proud of their body what are they saying by showing it? And even if they bare insecure, they are showing to get attention, in a manner to compete with other females.
And why did you focus solely in women? I did mention men, too , did not?
Don”t you ever look at a good looking bloke and think, hmmm!
Go on, lie to me!
Go read some of the blogs written by women.
Objectifying women…Puleeeze. Some of these writers put my best attempts at erotica so far in the shade you could grow mushrooms under the manuscript.
There is no way you can hop skip and jump away from the fact it is the same reason, albeit on a more subtle level, as animals, although in their case it is usually the males that strut their stuff in all their finery and it’s up to the female who she considers is the ‘sexiest’ that she will allow to mate with her.
You took the easy way without really thinking and had a swipe at me, implying I believe all woman should dress in a sheet and cover everything up.
In the end, everything is about sex at one level or another. It’s how we make more humans.
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Once again, dear old man with wandering attention, you miss the point. It’s relevant specifically to women because it’s overwhelmingly women who are exploited as a result of it. It’s relevant to women because down through history and still continuing today, in most societies women are valued mainly for their physical appearance and sexual uses. I don’t deny things are changing in western society, but men still hold almost all positions of power.
I *love* looking at hot men but genuinely never think that I can judge from their clothing if they are throwing me a signal about their sexual availability. I also don’t feel my attraction to them in any way dents their ability to get taken seriously by other people. I’m not trying to separate this from our obvious animal behaviour – I’m just trying to treat it logically and without our innate cultural discrimination.
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Arky – ja birthday today?
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Calendars don’t lie, apparently…unfortunately!
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Did I mention I echo what he says? 😉
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There go again. I’d forget my head if it wasn’t screwed on ….. Freudian slip of the tongue considering the topic.
Oh dear, there I go again.
I think the pic is cracking. That’s why I added an extra comment.
The colours are beautiful.
Well done that Argentinian.
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Thank you 🙂 It’s clearly been tampered with but I can’t get the hummingbird shimmer to come out without fiddling with saturation. Where are those sun bird photos you were talking about?
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(I took the BEST bee photo yesterday – definitely going to trump your conical cactus flower one)
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Oh, and I wholeheartedly agree with Thomas; sex IS a touchy subject…if one is lucky.
Let me go and see where my bloody cake is!
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I am not missing ANY point that your are succinctly making. The trouble is you are trying to suggest that a woman, must be allowed to wear whatever she likes (and I agree) but then gets all pissy if a bloke whistles at her or flirts with her.
If they DIDN’t they would also get all pissy. “What the hell am I dressing like this if no one looks at me?
It really is no different if it is a good looking woman in a mini-skirt and legs up to her armpits or a centerfold in Playboy.
One is just more overt than the other.
Now, I recognize what you are saying by what is generally considered the worth of a woman, and I do not entirely agree with you on this point, but clothes on or off, it is still sex. And whether you agree or not, woman are complicit in this to a degree as well.
Remember the opening line from the Steppenwolf song, Born to be wild?
”Get your motor running…”
Anyway, what do I know. I’m too old for that sort of thing any more, right?
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Women do have lines working against them (or for them).The female form is, typically, easier to accentuate in a sexually suggestive manner.
Me for example. 6’2″, 185 pounds, Gumby meets Inspector Gadget … How objectively “sexy” … or physically suggestive can I make myself?? There’s nothing to accentuate.
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What a pile of irrelevant nonsense! Am I surprised? It … depends … what … you … find … attractive. You may not be attracted to yourself, but put on some speedos and I’m sure your girlfriend can’t control herself. 🙂
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I agree!! But, those lines are still there or not there on some people to create division & reinforce the stereotypes. I think my point is so obvious that it seems like I’m taking a side. Just pointing out that we have these lines to overcome. If I could have it my way, everyone would look the same. Physical form doesn’t matter to me.
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And, I’ll have you know that there is truth in the intentionally nonsensical whilst it may seem irrelevant 🙂
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I think you’re correct that age is the problem here in your inability to grasp the basic concepts. You’ve clearly been slow-cooked in a conservative Victorian society and then indulged in the best of free love that the 60s had to offer. It’s very confusing. Go have some cake. 🙂
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Ah, yes, the free love..well I am not the type of bloke to pay for it. Now THAT, is objectifying women. But prostitution is another kettle of fish. The oldest profession in the world, so they say.
Maybe you should put on your best Emily Pankhurst dress and go and chain yourself to the railings of the British Embassy; emancipation before taxation or something.
Long as you’re home by four to start cooking dinner and have the baby washed and changed, right? And have something drop dead gorgeous to wear for later for the man of the house.
Pussycat AND Tiger, right?
Am I skating on thin ice yet? 😉
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“cleaning and washing the potatoes, scrubbing the carrots …”
Rest In Madness, Mr. Kaufman.
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Tut tut, now you are stereo typing, Chris. I can cook just as good as most w***n, with or without my clothes on.
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Frying a few chops could be hazardous without at least a pinny …
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Disclaimer: I was speaking to, but not intending to reinforce, the stereotypes.
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“This isn’t clearly an issue about ‘sex’ as such. It’s about taking other human beings seriously and treating everyone with the respect you think that you are entitled to.” – I love this. So true!!!
I never really had a problem with prostitution, they’re consenting adults and all, but those studies you mentioned are really confronting. I will have to do some more thinking on this.
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I think it’s rather glamorised in the media these days – lots of films and TV programmes with strong women selling sex at their convenience. That may be the case in some isolated incidents, but I suspect it’s not the case for the majority of women. Google some more studies, there’s nothing very nice to find, I’m afraid.
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Interesting and meaningful quote: ‘“Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself.” Thanks!
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Thanks for commenting. It’s a common theme down through the ages and cultures. I’ve heard people refer to it as ‘The Golden Rule’ to avoid associating it with any particular teaching.
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🙂
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Hm… sex is such a touchy subject, as one can discern from the multiple perspectives you reference in this post. I think that sex in itself shouldn’t be taboo if it’s consensual and safe, depending on the circumstances, but I agree that there needs to be much more thought put into how it’s portrayed in the media as well as others in society.
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You’re right. It shouldn’t be taboo in any way, but it should always be consensual and safe. Perhaps it’s the ‘taboo’ attitude that causes a lot of the harm.
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”(I took the BEST bee photo yesterday – definitely going to trump your conical cactus flower one)”
I do Creative. Competitive is so passe.
That said, I am looking forward to seeing the photo.:)
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Well done, Miss Wisp. (I always comment before I’ve read other comments, so sometimes I reinvent other folks’ wheels.)
Anyway …
As I see it ‘marriage’ came in during times of survival-foraging as an economic necessity. If you plough the field and plant the seed, then YOU (not us) have to nurture the crop.’Take responsibility’ sort of thing.
Then someone invented gods, and the wise quickly linked the two and have been making absolute fortunes ever since. Almost everywhere the church (in myriad forms) seized control and the selling of what amounts to copulation licences: marriage wasn’t such unless sanctioned by the priest.
Ol’ Priest was no mug. He knew that whoever had power over expression of the god-given (i.e. perfectly natural) sex urge had the ultimate power over Man and his production (unless the man involved was a duckie, in which case in many areas he was popped off—as an abomination, by God’s order). So the pastor seized control and the rest is history, with free thinkers getting more stoned than any pothead ever did.
Oops … this could be a post in itself, I’ll taiho here for now.
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Very nicely put!
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I’ve got a couple of bee photos I’m rather proud of myself—guess I’ll have to share them.
Or was this seemingly off-theme clash of steel a subtle thread we pedantic literal-interpretation types miss? Is ‘bee’ being used as an allusion to ‘birds & bees’,perhaps, a subtlety I missed?
Now to dig out and post those snaps …
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Excellent, you can join the competition then. I’ll still win.
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It is not a competition…
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There, done~!
I don’t compete, but I do like to share …
… enjoy. Or not. And don’t get me started on my mushroom shots … the conversation went like this:
“Argus~?”
“Yes, o’ beloved Spouse?”
“Why are you lying full length on wet and soggy ground in your town clothes, during what was meant to be a mere amble through the park?”
“It’s this blasted camera … it over powered me!”
How else do you get right in the face of a mushroom?
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Dammit. I’ll never get into Heaven now. No way, doomed forever by the masculine nature a vindictive God instilled in me millions of years before I was born.
How so, doomed?
Spouse and I went into town today … lovely warm sunny day and hundreds of gorgeous young damsels flitting about in filmy dresses, short linen skirts, wispy minis that capture every breeze and stream aloft in the wind, form-following flowing clingy garments … dammit, I’ve waited many decades for décolletage to come back and now it finally has I’m not turning away now … what chance would any properly programmed red-blooded male have? Thank God I’m an atheist—damn the damnation and full speed ahead~!
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“Sex is one of the nine reasons for reincarnation…The other eight are unimportant.”
-Henry Mill
And I agree with his, so we need to take sex seriously. But as you say it is about respect for each other.
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