problems with data
Presently, genetics uses the terminology and framework of racists so much so that there are race realists who are specialists on genetics and ‘human biodiversity.’
There are a lot of weird blogs floating around. One of the weirdest I’ve seen is a response to ‘race realists’, who publish scientific studies to back up blatantly racist points of view. Ethnicmuse, the blog claiming to provide accurate data to challenge the racists, has a stunning banner picture but is rather dull in content, with tables and graphs galore on ethnic condom preferences, the effects of testosterone on different ethnic groups and loads of other rather seemingly odd topics presented in a curiously dry manner.
Lighthearted stereotyping is something I think we all do. English people are boring, Japanese people are polite, Australians are drunk, French people are arrogant, Americans are insular, Brazilians are relaxed, Scottish people are tight, Ethiopians are good at marathons. When we do it on a cultural basis, it seems less harmful, as we know the factors are usually environmental and, let’s be honest, it’s a fun way to wind people up. When tendencies and stereotypes reach an ethnic level, there’s an impulse to tread carefully. Genetic differences that can be demonstrated through science, when brandished by people with racist agendas, can take a seriously ugly hue.
I was provided with a link to a race realist publication, where you see the data interpretation in action:
The reason why Whites and East Asians have wider hips than Blacks, and so make poorer runners is because they give birth to larger brained babies. During evolution, increasing cranial size meant women had to have a wider pelvis. Further, the hormones that give Blacks an edge at sports makes them restless in school and prone to crime.
This is a really weird area but one that I think merits serious discussion. I’ll assume the data is accurate: white people have in general have bigger brains, and black people, in general, have narrower pelvises and more testosterone. What thoughts come to mind?
- these are generalisations and tell you nothing about individuals
- a bigger brain doesn’t mean better processing – I know lots of people with big brains full of facts that can do nothing with the information
- I wish I could run faster and am envious of people with a naturally aerodynamic body
- men with high testosterone levels enjoy a number of benefits – higher levels of confidence and less likely to suffer from depression among them.
And in response to the prior conclusion about schools and crime, I would say that socio-economic factors resulting from a history of discrimination that continues to this day are undoubtedly the main cause, and it’s obvious that school systems need overhauled so they are challenging and interesting for everyone.
The Ethnicmuse blog comes from a very unusual perspective and I don’t agree with a lot of opinions the author holds. However, I do agree that it’s important that we don’t shy away from data that racists are salivating to get hold of – because there is nothing that science can tell us about ethnic groups that can make hate-filled points of view make sense. The problem is not in the data, the problem is in the flawed analysis from ignorant people filled with hate and fear.
The most important thing here is invariably that these are generalizations and tell you nothing about individuals.
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Totally, but the conclusions people draw from the generalisations are crazy.
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Do brain size and intelligence correlate? I would love to know, especially as I have great difficulty getting wigs big enough. The suggestion that Blacks are prone to crime: privilege and discrimination are factors in that one. These assertions say nothing about individuals, but also nothing about races.
Um. I can answer it almost without thinking, and people memorise that stuff and think they can draw racist conclusions from it. Is it just a matter of choice?
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Not quite choice, but definitely reasoning. And if people are looking for data to back up nasty thoughts they can always find something. I think the debate on ‘what is intelligence?’ is a whole other issue … maybe I’ll look out some posts on that, because that’s one that always irritates me. Ethnicmuse has a post on IQ that’s interesting.
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Americans are INSULAR? What the hell???
I agree and live in shame.
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I think you got off lightly. 🙂
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OHHHHHH, I agree.
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Chris, you’re from the south but live in the north now, right? Give us the working stereotype of the southerners….
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Well, Virginians consider themselves Southerners, but I don’t.
We southerners are stupid, racist, hospitable drunks.
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Well, you can’t complain about the hospitable part… unless you’re purple or orange. I don’t like purple and orange people. They walk with an unusual skip.
Yeah, Virginians do consider themselves southerners, don’t they. I was in Colorado and the guy i was staying with thought he was a southerner!
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I’ve battled with this subject. No matter how hard I fight it, stereotypes are generalizations and do come from a legitimate & detectable pattern. It’s our job to do our best to differentiate and work to overcome these patterns and help others avoid falling into a stereotypical identity.
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Yes, but has everyone has pointed out, it should never affect how you treat people, especially individuals. And I tried to point in the post, characteristics that people view as positive (like big heads) really mean very little. Every individual has their strengths of weaknesses regardless of their ethnic identity, and every group of people is prone to having different strengths and weaknesses but it’s ridiculous to think there’s one ‘better’ group.
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I see you left out the Argentinians here. Want me to fill in that gap and provide some heartfelt working examples to go with this most excellent post? 😉
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Go on! I’ll pop it in if I agree. 🙂 I put Scots in, so I covered myself.
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Tight? Tight!?! That’s not typecasting Scots. I’ve played rugby against Scots and they’re mad bastards, and simply insane when drunk.
You really want me to describe Argentinians? Delusional basketcases 🙂
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Shut up, drunk.
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Drunk AND relaxed, thank you!
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I’m from the land of “laissez les bon temps rouler,” but I’m still a nervous wreck.
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Is that New Orleans?
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Predominantly. But claimed by all surrounding areas & especially Cajun country which is south of New Orleans.
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Otherwise known as the floodplain
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Welllll, maybe you should be from Lou-zee-ana seein-ez you know more than everyone else about it.
(oh, we are also defensive and insecure about our intelligence)
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I don’t see why…
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What the hell is that supposed to mean? 😉
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I want to go there. It was one of my potential relocation spots a few years ago. Hot, noisy night-time insects and cool music. Why did you leave?
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From what you have observed from my online personality, could you suppose that doesn’t sound like the most productive arrangement for me?
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Deary me, I’ve obviously not been paying much attention. Are you tone deaf and prone to hot flushes?
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I think you’ve just described rugby players, rather than Scottish people specifically. Although I guess it’s not far off. I like your description of Argentinians, but I don’t think it’s a generally held stereotype (yet) so it would look rather out of place in my finely crafted list.
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OK, you’re the editor… plus I’m biased given my present geographic locale.
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How? You can’t even communicate with the residents. 🙂
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I’ve already explained to you that i have developed an extremely sensitive aptitude to non-verbal communication 😉
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I am vaguely familiar with some of these studies. For example, it is true that, on average, black people in America seem to have lower IQs than white people. From that, the authors wrongly conclude it’s a matter of race. Other studies done in different countries or with adopted children show that the lower IQ is only due to socio-economic reasons and has nothing to do with race. One has to be very careful when analysing this kind of data.
Brain size does seem to be correlated to intelligence across species (just compare us to a chimpanzee or to a mouse) but, within a certain range, other factors such as the amount of certain neurotransmitters or the concentration of certain types of cells become more relevant. For example, the Neanderthals had bigger brains than us but there is a consensus amongst scientists that we are smarter than they were. So any study that directly correlates average brain size with intelligence should be seen as suspect.
Finally, brain size seems to have decreased since the invention of agriculture. This doesn’t mean we’re dumber: it means that a lot of the cognitive functions needed to survive in the wild ceased to be relevant and disappeared or shrunk, since they were “outsourced” to the community. Ironically, more “primitive” societies tend to have bigger brains.
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Thanks David, I like the science! Very interesting information. I find the interest in IQ and how we value what we view as intelligence a weird one. As I say in the post, levels of measured ‘intelligence’ often don’t signify very much other than heads full of data. Which can be useful, but not somehow better.
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I wouldn’t trust ANYTHING found on Ethnicmuse’s blog.
That fool and his ramblings are poison. His attempts to be clinical and scientific obfuscate a more insidious foundation to his belief. What this is I have yet to put my finger on, but after reading a fair few of his comments on various posts across Blogland he is definitely a few sandwiches short of a pick-nick
Furthermore he is a Sunbeam for Jesus, to boot, maybe even a biblical literalist.
Some bugs should be squashed.
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Even Jewn Bugs?
Sorry, man … hahaha.
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Oooh, harsh! He does have an unusual point of view but I think he’s an interesting character. Obviously his fundamentalist Christian point of view is of concern and casts a dodgy light on his motives. I’m disappointed he hasn’t made an appearance to cast some more light on his chosen field of interest.
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Unusual? Well, yes. his is correct. But it’s a bit like saying Hannibal Lechter has an eating disorder. Tells you something but tells you nothing.
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Haha, how very dramatic!
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It is interresting how racists keep popping up, even though their agendas were debunked in scientific field even before Hitler took over in Germany. A new form of racism is this hidden racism, wich claims not to be racistic, but is openly biased towards the ethnicity of people, never the less. There is something inherently dishonest about it, but it seems to get all the idiots to vote, and there are a lot of bigoted idiots.
Perhaps it is because stupid people have a hard time understanding the world, so there are a lot more unknown factors in it for them, so they develope these false fears of everything alien to them. A kind of twisted survival mechanism of the primitive mind.
I do not know, if we Finns are a big enough nation for there to be actual known stereotypes of us, but our neighbours the Russians, Swedes, Norvegians and the Estonians seem to agree, that we Finns are sulking, silent barbarians who all have an alcohol problem and an anger management problem to go with it. Oh and we all carry knives all the time, wich is kinda true…
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Yes, alcoholism and depression are what I associate with Finland – similar to Scotland but colder and with even less light. It’s a nightmare scenario for me – I thrive in heat and light. What are the knives for?
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Well, mainly we kill each other with them, when we get depressed about running out of alcohol. Even though we have more guns per capita, than they have in the US, we do our killing with the knives.
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It’s sounding more and more like Scotland (except for the guns)
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Beware anyone that uses the term “race” when applied to the one homo sapiens species. “Race” is a shallow lie, an impermanent illusion, and a dangerous political tool. There is only one type of human being: a living one.
My two cents, anyway.
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I know what you mean. The fact remains that there are biological differences between different ethnic groups or races, and it can be useful to know about them e.g. genetic disposition to certain diseases. Other differences need to be read in light of socio-economic and historical factors and, in knowing the data, try and address the root causes. What most people have emphasised here is that generalisations don’t tell you anything about individuals, but I would also add that the characteristics that western society generally views as ‘better’ aren’t always that way.
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Ethnicmuse contains (among other things) my analysis of data used by race realists. It is not necessarily accurate or a challenge to racists but rather a scientific evaluation of their claims. The site is bland but so are the majority of scientific data. I would rather it be bland and correct than colourful and without transformative information. As for making an appearance, some of these posts require months of collecting and wading through data. Even the posts themselves require multiple revisions.
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Thanks for commenting Chazlng. Although I’m still not any clearer on your motivation, I’m sure that’s how you wish it to remain.
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There are almost no sites which scientifically evaluate race realist claims. Some try to make excuses or soften the racist conclusions. This would be one of the main motivations for the site. If I can aid someone to re-examine their stereotypes, they might find out either that the data provisionally reinforces the stereotype or that the stereotype is provisionally unfounded.
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