how to tell if your religion is genuine
In the year 2013, Christianity is the most popular religion in the world. If you’re a Christian, you’ll be aware that 2000 years ago this was not the case, and everyone went to Hell apart from the Jews – the people your god God properly loves because of his ethnic preferences. Most of the population of Asia, the Americas and Africa went to Hell on a regular basis until the arrival of missionaries a few hundred years ago, bringing a super double package of death through disease and eternal salvation.
If any of this is giving the Christians pause for thought (as in, “that really is a bit weird – not the best creator’s plan in benevolent deity-ville!”), they might like to reflect on a couple suggestions for evaluating just how genuine a religion might be.
Given the likelihood that all religious beliefs can’t be true (unless the deities are watching from a black hole having a popularity competition), it’s obvious that at least 99% of the superstitious beliefs that spring up all over the world are human-made nonsense. We all agree on that, right? So, if your religion is special, it will have divine characteristics that will set it apart from all the others.
1. Is the religious story original, or does it sound like a typically human-made brand of superstitious imagination, mixing and matching winning ideas from ancient popular myths?
- Zoroaster from Persia, a prophet from between the 18th and 6th centuries BCE, starting his teaching mission at the age of 30 following a vision telling him that only one god was worth following, and featuring temptation from a devil.
- The popular Greek God, Dionysus, was worshipped as far back as 1500 BCE and was the son of the god Zeus and a mortal woman. He died and was resurrected, and was celebrated with a ritual meal of bread and wine.
- Osiris in ancient Egypt did the popular god trick of being resurrected. His followers believed in divine justice after death, with the prospect of eternal life based on moral fitness.
2. Is the core message of the religion original, or does it sound like a typically human-made brand of philosophical musings, mixing and matching natural conclusions and winning ideas from ancient and popular figures?
- Plato, who was born round about 420 BCE in Greece said, “All men are by nature equal, made all of the same earth by one Workman; and however we deceive ourselves, as dear unto God is the poor peasant as the mighty prince.” and “Good actions give strength to ourselves and inspire good actions in others.”
- Buddha, born in 563 BCE in Nepal, said, “Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others. He who envies others does not obtain peace of mind.” and “Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love; this is the eternal.”
- Confucius, the Chinese philosopher born in 551 BCE, said, “In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of.” and, “Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire.”
I sincerely hope this helps sort the wheat from the chaff!
I’m not seeing it. Originality is tough to assess, and it in itself is not a guarantor of truth.
LikeLike
Originality is easy to assess, it’s a simple comparison exercise. But I agree it’s not a guarantor of truth – otherwise the weirdest religion would be winning. Scientology?
LikeLike
This is going to get ripped to shreds by Pew when he sees it…he loves this type of post and will tell you all about how original Jesus was….. Maybe you will be lucky and he wont pitch?
But I agree…all a crock.
LikeLike
Ripped to shreds by PeW? Don’t make me laugh. He’ll come in waving some waste of time argument terminology and start asking questions that go nowhere. Then, in the end, he’ll concede that I have a point and go all quiet. Like always. 🙂
LikeLike
I confess I AM curious to know where you got your sources for the three bullet points under #1.
LikeLike
Think you’re a better historian than me? Which would you like to challenge?
LikeLike
Told you he’d pitch up with some smarmy git comment…..you don’t listen either..
LikeLike
Being a smarmy git is his way of ripping things to shreds. He considers disdain an intellectual quality.
I would swear at hium for you but you’ll put me in the Spam Can right? 🙂
LikeLike
Of course not, I’d just give you a stern warning. 🙂 Seeing as not a single person bothered to compliment the photo, don’t you think it’s great? I think it’s super weird cool.
LikeLike
Of course I .like it. It is currently my desk top
LikeLike
Nothing better or worse about it. I’m just interested in your sources for those three points.
LikeLike
Hi PeW, I’m aware that there is controversy around a lot of the gods-like-jesus stories so I was careful to choose the similar stories around which there is no doubt. I’m really pressed for time at the moment (banned from blogging!) because we moving countries next week, but I’ll try and get back to you if you can tell me specifically what you don’t agree with.
LikeLike
It’s not disagreement per se, just curiosity. I haven’t seen reputable sources for the death, resurrection, or communion of Dionysus, or the resurrection or eternal life of Osiris (IIRC Osiris ruled the abode of the dead), and I hadn’t previously heard of the temptation of Zoroaster. Wanted to learn where you’d gotten it all.
LikeLike
I’ll try and do a post about this in the next couple of weeks – too much thinking and poking about to get it done at the moment, but you raise an interesting point, so thanks.
LikeLike
Looking forward to it!
LikeLike
Don’t listen to Ark, the originality idea is a gem… and PeW had no answer to the challenges presented last night. It’s worth pushing.
LikeLike
It’s another illogical ‘logical’ angle he likes to push. I have no problem (beyond the obvious) with people having faith in a supernatural force, but I don’t know why they think they can find logic to prove it.
LikeLike
If i understood what happened last night correctly, he really had no idea that the jebus story wasn’t original. That was baffling. Such a fundamental ignorance. I was honestly surprised.
LikeLike
I thought you’d mis-typed ‘Jesus’ yesterday, so just now I thought that jebus must be a Greek god or something I didn’t know … but I’m now guessing that jebus is the god of the Crispyuns? It’s really difficult to keep up! I think he just sees the more convincing historical aspect and context as proving something. I was thinking of digging for some post-Jesus similar stuff, do you know any? The dragons and witches eye-witnesses didn’t have him twigging much.
LikeLike
There’s heaps. The most recent being Claude Maurice Marcel Vorilhon, Rael: 1973.
LikeLike
I found it really funny that someone who kept insisting I watch the Richard Carrier video would spout fantasies that Carrier debunks in that very video.
It’s just sloppy.
LikeLike
You’re going to base your entire opinion on one video? There are many, many, many lectures…. that was just an appetizer.
Now, who’s being sloppy? 😉
Before this spirals out of control, i’m not having a go at you, Whisky, just appealing to the logical parts of your brain to step outside your christian bubble and see the jebus story in the true historical context… Just another god-man who defeats death. Hell, you’re aware of Gilgamesh, right? That ENTIRE STORY is about defeating death. His journey is to Utnapishtim who has been given eternal life. Different characters, different ages, different methods, but it’s ALL the same plotline!
Open your mind, sir, and see the buffet.
LikeLike
So you disagree with Carrier then?
Be patient; I’ll have the review of this video this week.
LikeLike
No, I don’t disagree with him. He’s dismantled the tale very well. What i’m saying is there is a growing body of work that all points to the same conclusion: Jebus never existed. I don’t believe for a moment he ever took an earthly breath.
LikeLike
You don’t disagree with him when he says there is no dying-and-rising parallel between Jesus and Mithras, yet you cite Mithras as a dying-and-rising god? I’m confused.
I recognize that’s your belief, and of course you’re entitled to believe anything you want. 🙂
LikeLike
I don’t have to agree with him on everything to also agree with his final conclusions. I think he’s a little too quick to dismiss some things, but his method is strong.
Again, open your mind Whisky. You were stuck for far too long in that dark, filthy, anti-human, anti-science, anti-logical AIG/YEC closet and its damaged your brain. The fortunate thing is, brains can self-heal. We’re here to help….
LikeLike
So you still persist in believing that Mithras was a dying-and-rising god, despite no evidence for it and a good deal of evidence against it? Afraid I can’t help you there. Again, you can believe what you will, but without evidence it seems suspiciously like faith.
LikeLike
I don’t need your help, Whisky. I wasn’t the person trapped in the illogical, mentally retarded Young Earth world.
It is you who needs us.
LikeLike
Not sure how avoiding the question and name-calling helps advance your image of rigorous skepticism and unemotionalism…but hey, whatever floats your boat.
I do hope you’ll take a look at my response to the Carrier video once I get it up.
LikeLike
Of course i will…. but you’d be doing yourself a favour if you didn’t just focus on a single lecture. That’s being rather disengenous, wouldn’t you think?
LikeLike
Well, I can only go one at a time. 🙂
LikeLike
What? I don;t think the JC story has a shred of originality…
LikeLike
I know you don’t. Whisky does.
LikeLike
On the other hand, supposing that a god wanted to reveal truth to humans, is it reasonable to suppose that he would wait until he’d already lost millions of them? To me it seems more likely that he’d reveal his truth to the equivalent of the Adam and Eve types. Thus any religion that comes after would be closer to the truth if it weren’t original, since originality would indicate a permutation rather than getting back to the truth.
Following this logic, though, you’d want to vouch for the age of your religion rather than its originality. Right? Problem is, none of the oldest religions are still being followed. Rats. I must have got god wrong. Again.
LikeLike
The god God really seems to lose a lot of his creation through sloppy revelation to the favoured few.
LikeLike
I know my religion is true, and will be true for all ages. It makes no claims of gods, holy scripture or savior gods. In my religion, we all are participating in writing the holy scripture, we are all brothers and sisters regardless of race or ethnicity or gender. My religion is the religion of humanism and all of us can be priests!
LikeLike
Ooooh, that sounds a bit evangelical. ::)
LikeLike
Interesting article, Violetwisp! I must confess that as a lifelong atheist, it’s sometimes hard for me to understand why these questions might even be important. I mean that in the nicest possible way. The way I see it, what’s true to me is in my bones, even if it does, at times, have to be pointed out to me by another human being. I do not worry for a moment whether that is true or not, or on whose authority I might believe it….
PS: I think Makagutu’s take on religion is also very nice.
LikeLike
I think most of us would wonder why the questions are important! PeW seemed to think this was a logical way to prove Christianity is true. Not logical and not even accurate …
LikeLike
If we could redefine religion as an enduring social phenomena, it would make perfect sense. Well, it works for me 🙂
LikeLike
That’s a nice idea! I would prefer enduring social phenomenon based of the natural inclination to superstitious nonsense – just to make it extra judgemental and punchy.
LikeLike
We’re nearly there!
LikeLike
Pastafarianism is pretty original and contains more than a few uncommon insights (correlation vs. causation, for example). I knew I was on the right track!
LikeLike
I’m pleased I could help prove your faith is correct! 🙂
LikeLike
Do not do to others what you do not desire is also in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, but is framed negatively. Abstaining from doing harm to others is different from doing good to them. Bernard Shaw said “Do not do to others what you would have them do to you. They may not have the same tastes” leading to the “Platinum rule”- “Treat others in the way they wish to be treated”. So, how do you get these good rules for treatment of others to stick?
LikeLike
I hadn’t heard of the Platinum Rule, it’s sounds very tricky, lots of guess work involved there. Maybe they need to be taught in schools?
LikeLike
Pingback: how to apply crank salt | violetwisp