lurking 9: chivalry is in the dustbin
When it comes to lurking, no-one does it better than Clare Flourish. She uncovers the most interesting array of bloggers and is kind enough to share them with the world. Thanks to Clare, I have been introduced to Justin de Vere (Essays discussing modern-day topics) and I would like to share just a few snippets from some of his engaging posts. I must confess I find them quite interesting, even though I completely disagree with him on every topic he discusses.
chivalry
It has not helped that fashions have become more revealing in the decades since chivalry was put in the dustbin. Nowadays you walk down the street and it’s cleavage, yoga pants, bare shoulders, short skirts all the time! Fashion is sexier; it’s more about sex. Even 50, 60 year old women dress younger, have young-looking hair, and thanks to make-up, botox, pilates and good bras, they look younger too! Remember when women in their 50s and 60s looked and acted their age?
immigration
People in Australia like it here the way it is. They like their communities, their neighbourhoods. They like that people in their neighbourhoods have the same language and values as they do. There is, and will be resentment towards people who come here by boat, to enjoying the peace, freedom and prosperity that our own Judeo-Christian culture provided, and which is lacking in their own homelands.
feminism
Have you ever met a feminist who comes from a really happy family? One that does not have some kind of bitterness in her heart? I suppose there must be a few of them who slipped through the cracks. But usually there is some kind of unresolved trauma from their past, always involving their relationship to men, whether it’s their father or boyfriends, or others. Almost always there is a fancy among feminists, passing or more permanent, that life might even be better without men at all, as a lesbian.
submission in marriage
In a good, loving marriage, the woman should be submissive to the man, and trusting of him to lead her. It’s the best way. Every group should have a leader, and men are better at leading than women. … Besides, there is strength in weakness, just as there is weakness in strength. Many people don’t see this, especially in the West. They think weak is weak, strong is strong. But a woman can use her weakness to get things to happen, while a man often, usually cannot do the same. An apparently weak woman can make things happen that an apparently strong woman cannot.
And if none of that tickles your fancy, you can browse through a myriad of posts with titles such as:
- On Unmarried Women Having Babies
- How to Talk With Advocates of Same-Sex Marriage
- The Media’s Obsession With Opinion Polls
- A Brief Post on Natural Urges
- Why not vote for an atheist political candidate?
Pop over for a chat and, most of all, enjoy!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha- very funny 🙂
LikeLike
I saw you were inspired by him too. I must pop over and catch up on the comments …
LikeLike
The comments were jesus-fest 2014. But the crazy finally gave up and left. I think he/she realized it wasn’t the most religious-friendly environment.
LikeLike
Which post is that? I only saw ‘I forgive you Australia’
LikeLike
The post about abortion in Spain, Spain to risk lives of 100,000 women….
LikeLike
Ah, I thought you meant Justin had popped over for a chat on one of your posts. I saw eMatter, I was impressed you had the patience to wade through so many ridiculous comments.
LikeLike
Interesting. Second post on your anti-abortion ranter’s website: Did your media tell you this about the Sandy Hook shooter? Or did they just use the story as a tool to take away your 2nd Amendment rights?
LikeLike
Does Bayer pharmacueticals pay you directly? Reading that is going to make my head hurt 😉
LikeLike
I think you would particularly appreciate this post:
http://justindevere.wordpress.com/2013/11/05/why-not-vote-for-an-atheist-political-candidate/
LikeLike
That one caught my eye… working it over right now
LikeLike
Oh brother! Let me see if I got this:
Fifty and sixty year old women should look old.
People in Australia resent immigrants who enjoy their peaceful, joyful, Christian lives
Young girls and women who rebel against the (kind, gentle, nice) patriarchal men in their lives have turned into feminist lesbians because there are no lesbians who aren’t feminists and there are no feminists who aren’t also lesbians.
And finally, women would be happier if they would shut up and do what their men tell them to.
Got it.
LikeLike
Nice summary. But if you think that’s good, you should pop over and see the rest of his stuff! It’s a goldmine of interesting posts. 🙂
LikeLike
Not at all. You are completely wrong. In fact, this comment by Ruth is simply disingenuity disguised as cleverness to impress others. I’m sure East German factory workers used to do the same thing, waxing lyrical as convincingly as possible about the joys of Socialism while people were around, just to make sure they didn’t get in trouble. Gee, if I were terrified that people would label me a bigot if I said anything that wasn’t exactly correct, I’d probably talk like Ruth, too. Heck, I’ll do it now: “You know what I hate? The Patriarchy. I know I’m a guy and everything, and I’ve benefited from it, but It’s like, ugh! How do I even get started? It’s just wrong, you know? Like, how do you even comprehend all those thousands of years of oppression?” And so on. See? Easy peasy. I used to do it all the time. Do it enough and you start to believe it.
Get a new trick, lefties. Try truth, for example. That’s actually not a trick, though.
All men reading this: you don’t need feminism to be virtuous. You can ditch it right now.
LikeLike
Why are you so angry at women?
I’m don’t even consider myself a hard-core feminist, but I do recognize that without it I wouldn’t have the right to vote in my country, I wouldn’t even be coming close to equal work for equal pay. I’d likely still be considered property for my husband to treat me as he pleased. It wasn’t that long ago that it wasn’t against the law for a man to take the strap to his wife.
So why don’t you try a little truth and understand that not all feminists fit you caricatured description of them. We haven’t all burned our bras, yet.
LikeLike
Yeah, I’ve already apologised to Pink for this rather odd Australian. How odd, though, that he says Judeo-Christian heritage. That is a total load of deluded codswallop. Religion has NEVER played a role in Australian society. For goodness sake, we just has an atheist PM and not a single word was said about it. Why? Because we don’t do religion in Australia!
LikeLike
My favourite bit is that he objects to people arriving in a country populated by immigrants by boat. Immigrants have such a short attention span regarding immigration.
Given that the majority of Australia’s immigrants to do have come from European countries with a predominately Christian heritage, he’s not that crazy. You’re an atheist, yet a product of a Judeo-Christian heritage. (Bit worrying I’m defending him here, he hasn’t even popped over to say anything nice about my pictures … )
LikeLike
His point about the boat people is borderline sound. I was just talking to my mother last night about the problems of groups not assimilating. She says its getting pretty bad there and, like in France, “ghettos” (her word, not mine) are forming where these immigrants cluster.
LikeLike
I remember you being anti-immigration. It’s something I associate with all white Australians, and something that infuriates me considering the conditions that most Aboriginal people live in as a direct result of Europeans setting up in their country. Not that it’s a blame thing especially, change happens, but the double standards about freedom of movement and the consequences on the settled population are painful to listen to.
LikeLike
I’m not anti-immigration. My dads family were immigrants! I’m pro-assimilation, though. The Chinese, Italians and Greeks did it smoothly. For some reason the current crop of Middle Easterners are refusing to, choosing instead to isolate themselves in pockets inside the cities. This is causing real problems with the 2nd generation kids. They have no identity and are angry.
LikeLike
Humour from SOM on your recent post? What’s going on there?
LikeLike
He’s a fine, mischievous lad 🙂
LikeLike
Do you think he just a troll then?
LikeLike
Absolutely! I’m chatting to him on praysons blog right now. He’s like the king of trolls.
LikeLike
No way! I’m so impressed. He writes such bizarre rubbish sometimes that I can’t even read it, and forgot that I’d originally assumed he was a troll. What a waste of time, though, hah. (Is it you?)
LikeLike
I wish. I can’t be that clever, or deceptive. You suggested once, didn’t you, that it was Pew, which is not such a bad conclusion.
LikeLike
SOM has on occasion behaved exactly like PeW, but he hasn’t reminded me of him in recent exchanges. That would be a weird thing to do, hopefully PeW’s being more productive on his journey to atheism. 🙂
LikeLike
By Middle Eastern you mean Muslim. Chinese come from an advanced, moral civilisation. Greeks and Italians come from Christian culture. Muslims, in contrast, have been in conflict with the West pretty much since they started up.
LikeLike
Again, do try and learn your history. If it weren’t for Muslims we would not have Western civilisation. It was due to their preservation work, and translations, that we have the Greek philosophers works today. Seems you don’t know this, but all that history was lost, and given to Europe through Muslim hands.
LikeLike
Incorrect. The first caliphate did indeed improve its civilisation by means of learned people they captured from neighboring civilised countries, like India, Persia and Greece. The Muslims themselves did nothing to contribute to it, aside from enslaving these smart guys. What you are saying is the standard left wing line, it’s almost impossible for you to praise your own culture. If you want to see how a real Islamic empire goes, take a look a the history of the Ottoman Empire.
LikeLike
“If it weren’t for Muslims we wouldn’t have Western civilisation.” You realise that they were and are at war with Western civilisation? You think the Byzantine Empire collapsed itself?
LikeLike
Where do you get your “history” from, Beck University?
Try looking up Transmission of the Classics and learn a bit before spilling drivel.
LikeLike
Is it Arthur Philip’s fault that Aborigines were left without serious competition for so long, that when it finally arrived, they were unable to cope with it?
Read William Dampier’s assessment of Aborigines, written before white colonisation, for another point of view.
LikeLike
First, Australia was not a country when it was colonised by the so-called ‘original boat people’. No, it was a sparsely inhabited continent with numerous tribes and languages. The First Fleet was awell-planned expedition which would have failed to produce as good a country now if anyone other than the British had attempted it. Those first settlers founded this country, and made it what it is. In contrast, boat people now are not organised, and many are simply coming to enjoy the fruits of a country they did not create. They’ll come, get the dole for a while, then live in a community with others of their culture. They have little interest in building this country, not like those first settlers.
In short there is no comparison between the boat arrivals of 1788 and 2014, aside from the boats.
LikeLike
What do you think is the foundation of Western civilisation? Valentinian III? No. Of course it’s Judeo-Christian morals. It took many centuries of effort to get a country as good as Australia, and the foundation of that was Christianity.
LikeLike
Ermm, no. The foundation of Australia was as a penal settlement. Do learn your history.
LikeLike
You should learn it. If you honestly truly think that the slow, steady development of western civilisation, of which the colonisation of Australia was a part, had nothing at all to do with Christianity, then you are simply wrong. It was the foundation if it, as I said.
LikeLike
You’re just too dumb to even converse with.
LikeLike
What a great answer. Real argument winner there. Standard left-wing stuff. OK, see you round.
LikeLike
Lol John, the rest of us roll our eyes, and think where has he been asleep for so long and you reply. I admire your tenacity. I do like the penal settlement reply.
LikeLike
Women ruled Rome when their sons were too young to lead and of these, the mother of Alexander and his grandmother show the best example.
To say feminists want to be lesbians ignores the male feminists.
And the Judeo- Christian heritage?? I thought native Australians were dreamers!
LikeLike
He’s just great isn’t he? Read one paragraph of any of his posts and your mind is buzzing!
LikeLike
I read the post about atheist political candidates. Is he serious or is it satire?
LikeLike
He did seem genuinely offended when I suggested it was satire. As I said to Ark, I think he would given up from lack of attention if it was satire. A joke’s only funny if other people are laughing (or taking it seriously) and he’s been going at it for some time. He claims he used to be a feminist in a few posts …
LikeLike
I saw that part and actually did a post on it. I don’t see why a person would take offense when asked if theirs was an attempt at satire albeit a bad one.
LikeLike
“He” has been a feminist??? Then by “his” own definition “he” used to be a lesbian, with “somekind of bitterness” in “his” heart and a disturbed family backround. That is really weird…
LikeLike
Oh, beyond weird!
LikeLike
Haha. Perhaps this person is of the same kind as so many of those former atheists, sort of like the Lee Strobel of feminism. A feminst who turned into anti feminist because he/she never understood the concept.
LikeLike
The opposite is true, rautakyy. I probably know more about it than you. What a waste, reading all those useless textbooks. Should have just gone out and done some rock climbing or something. I got out of feminism because it’s bad. The fact that ordinary people tend to reject it should tell you a lot about it.
LikeLike
No, rakutakyy. I used to claim I was one, and I used to support their causes. But men can’t be real feminists, and the whole ideology is unsound. I think the causes of feminism are not good ones.
Obviously the idea that a woman turns to feminism because she has some bitterness toward men can’t be turned around and said about men. You are being disingenuous in order to please the other people here, rather than being truthful. In reality you understand perfectly well what I wrote.
LikeLike
Native ‘Australians’ were not counted as Australians till 1967. This country, as it is now, was build on a bedrock of Judeo-Christianity.
LikeLike
what were they before that?
LikeLike
Pingback: Why not vote for an atheist political candidate | Random thoughts
I haven’t got time to visit at the mo. But this is tongue in cheek ,right?
He must be taking the P***
That Aussie comment is a killer!
I’ll cruise later.
But these snippets are funny.
LikeLike
It certainly seems so absurd it must be satirical. But he did reply to my first comment on his posts and was insulted I even suggested it might be. Also, given the length of time he’s been posting his tripe without much feedback, I expect it must be genuine. Anyone else would get bored. Honestly, the posts are hilarious and most of them are quite interesting too – definitely worth a browse. I’ll be lurking on regular basis.
Did you get through to Askthebigot? She’s obviously abandoned ship on the other post and sent someone else over in an attempt to save face at losing!
LikeLike
Yes, seems it was a server issue after all, but i have not perused.
LikeLike
Putting on a show about how left wing you are, and how natural it comes to you, is one of the reasons I got out of that ideology. “Wow guys, is this satire?” Blah blah. I used to do that too.
LikeLike
The writer of that blog strikes me as glib, occasionally blind to the obvious, and someone who attempts to write shocker articles without the educational or intellectual background to do it properly. I vastly prefer to read the thoughtful and thoughtfully researched articles on Blog, Blogger, Bloggest.
LikeLike
Will have a look at BBB, sounds good. I actually quite like Justin’s posts – I think they’re at my educational and intellectual level but the polar opposite point of view. Consistently. On every topic. I might dedicate some time to browse through and see if I can find one I agree with …
LikeLike
I didn’t respond to Justin … but BBB and I often disagree, quite strongly … and yet he has risen to my defense and two occasions when people were homophobic, so he’s clearly a good guy. As a former Headmaster and University Prof, I felt Justin was … well, glib. However, I’ll give him another read.
LikeLike
Oh, I obviously didn’t read his ‘About’ page. I just assumed he was a random punter letting loose. If he’s claiming some level of education, he really needs to back up his crazy instincts with a bit of research. Besides which, when are headmasters ever also professors?? Never.
LikeLike
Well … I do recommend Steve Morris over at Blog, Blogger, Bloggest … he’s the real thing (and then some).
LikeLike
I am sure being more esoteric would help me out a lot.
LikeLike
I am not interrested enough to see this blog, as I have met too many people with such silly ideas in real life.
Chivalry: When was chivalry put to dustbin? I see myself chivalrious in the positive sense of the word. What have the bare shoulders to do with chivalry? In the 19th century fashion one sees a lot of bare shoulders and rather open cleavage, not to speak other features thought attractive at the time. And in the 19th century western culture they worshipped chivalry as an ideal even more then it was admired in the medieval centuries. I could also point out a few things about medieval fashion and it’s attempts to make people of both sexes look younger, but this would be even more so a terribly long comment, if I did.
Immigration: Chivalry was really popular when the ancestors of modern day western culture was immigrating to Australia as a way of deporting criminals. What is this Judeo-Christian culture? These kind of arguments against immigration remind me of how the Germans used to argue for their right to get rid of their Jewish neighbours, because they did not share the values of the German Christian neighbourhood, or the arguments that led to religious wars in Europe in the 17th century. As the western countries have accepted the robbing of third world countries (former ownership of the western empires) by the international corporations, it is no wonder people seek peace and prosperity from the western countries. This of course has nothing to do with any religious heritage, other than that the internal strifes between Christian sects finally forced freedom of religion as the only viable survival mechanism for the western culture centuries ago. But most people are unable to see such long term cause and effect lines, and are therefore limited to such tribal moralism. But people should be taken as individuals and not as representatives of this or that culture. Each person is alone responsible for their own actions regardless of their origins.
Feminism: I am a feminist. I do not have inner bitterness, or problems with my relation to men. I come from a happy (atheist) family. Nor have I ever even dreamt to be a lesbian. I am heterosexual male and quite content in that. In fact I have never met a feminist woman or man, who would fit into this silly description on any level. And I know a lot of feminists.
Submission in marriage: Why would the other party be submissive to the other in a marriage? Is marriage not all about two people who love each other sharing their lives. How are happiness and love benefited by submission? There is an obvious contradiction in terms there somewhere. Why should every group have a leader? That makes no sense. Even if it was true, then should not that leader be chosen by the ability to lead and not by such arbitrary reasons as what reproductive role that person was able to perform? Or does this person think that Margaret Thacher was a bad leader? If so, then I could perhaps agree with him on that single issue.
LikeLike
Thanks Raut, a good healthy dose of common sense as usual. I’d love you to go to Justin’s ‘chivalry’ post and explain something about historical fashions to him! But I know you’re busy, and besides he’s not being very chatty. Someone told me he was a headteacher, which puts some of his attitude in context – he wants to preach to underlings, not discuss with actual people. (no offence to any good headteachers …) Love your bit about immigration too, people’s attitudes on this really drive me crazy – I even had an almost argument with John! Anyway, I hope Justin pops over and learns from you.
LikeLike
Judeo-Christian culture is the bedrock of our civilisation. You think if Muslims had settled Australia you’d be even sitting at a computer right now, let alone saying whatever you want?
You’re not a feminist, not a proper, 1st rank one. You have to be a woman for that. By the way, women of colour outrank white girls. So you’re a third ranker. Just give it up, they don’t have your best interests at heart. The business about all feminists wanting to be lesbians is a canard started by someone on this comment page. But yeah, lesbian feminists outrank straight ones.
Why should every group have a leader? Because, why not? That concept honestly makes no sense to you? Having a leader is just natural. Groups have leaders.
How are happiness and love benefited by submission? Well, how does constant bickering, jostling for position — passive aggressive or otherwise — serve it?
Thatcher was a great PM, but because democratically elected parliament is not a good metaphor for a marriage, your analogy fails.
LikeLike
I agree with this … utterly, even to the degree to which your analogy fails. The first paragraph is a brave and honest corker or a comment. Excellent! We do disagree on many things, Justin, and yet our personalities click. Curious, but lovely. I like it. Keep on, keeping on !
LikeLike
Here y’go, Miss V.
A bit more grist for the mill for you!
Enjoy…..
En Guarde!, and into the fray once more…. 🙂
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/03/somali-muslim-girl-adoption-lesbian_n_4717565.html
LikeLike
What a sad story! What could I do with that? I’m drawing a blank but I realise it’s relevant somehow.
LikeLike
Well, our recent tete a tete with the anti gay marriage etc ask a bigot lady….
LikeLike
Well, I know that. I’m just scratching my head about what it adds to the argument.
LikeLike
Sorry, I am busy doing some editing on this side and having trouble focusing on two different things. I have WP open – I have been on my publishers website – but I’m not paying too much attention, sorry.
I am a man and cannot multitask too well…
I may have got the wrong end of the stick and begun beating about the burning bush with it…
If recall, I thought this piece illustrated the questionable actions of those who have religious motives behind their objections to the adoption of this child?
Exactly what ”the bigot” is championing, yes?
maybe I misread it?
LikeLike
I just can’t connect it to a ‘point’, my brain is mush and I’m only left feeling sorry for the child. Interesting link though, thanks.
LikeLike
Yeah, I read all those, when I stupidly wandered over after the linkies and wasted far too much time.
I can’t be bothered to waste my time with reading him any more. I struggle with my reaonable readers to explain feminism as it is without dealing with such a ****er. Insert whatever four letters you choose. Or ****head.
LikeLike
I don’t think he enjoyed the attention. He stopped replying to comments and doesn’t appear to have posted anything in the while. He obviously enjoyed airing his rants to no-one rather than discussing or justifying his foul views. Sure sign of a wonky world view.
LikeLike
Actually, Violet, the left-wingers who came were more interested in mocking me, ignoring my comments, or having an argument than anything else. I got tired of it. It seemed pointless to try to use reason to explain, describe or argue anything. (Granted, I read a couple of your comments. They were pretty good, comparatively speaking. But you are in the minority). Also I had a new job which took more of my time, and the blog was taking too much of my time, for insufficient outcomes. So, I decided to fold the blog for a while. I’d done the number of essays I planned to do, anyway, by the end of 2013. I’ve only returned now because I wrote a new essay and I didn’t have anywhere else to put it. I also was somewhat interested to see if anyone is still reading my blog.
LikeLike
The fact that you struggle to explain feminism to reasonable people says a lot about feminism. Maybe it really is angry, Marxist mumbo jumbo that ordinary people shy away from due to its lack of appeal and its many bitter adherents?
The four letters I choose are w, r, i and t.
LikeLike