what is religious freedom?
In most countries in the world, religious freedom is something we’re used to experiencing. It means that people can choose to follow and practice whatever religion they want.
However, there are a few people in the free world who seem to be slightly confused about what exactly this entails. If you are a flower arranger and you refuse to serve someone because of their race, their age, their religion or their sexual orientation, you will probably find you’re breaking civil laws that protect people against mindless discrimination. Remember, for those of you confused enough to think a benevolent god believes homosexual sex is a sin, you’re not complicit in that sin unless you have homosexual sex. You can practice your religion freely and arrange those flowers.
Similarly, if your democratically elected government decides based on evidence that a key feature of a progressive and useful healthcare system includes access to contraception, for those of you confused enough to think a benevolent god believes contraception is a sin, you’re not complicit in that sin unless you start using contraception. You can practice your religion freely and pay for decent government mandated healthcare coverage for your employees.
Let’s have a look at some other religious people who, on this basis, might feel their freedom of religion is being tampered with:
- The Mormon you probably wanted to make President, Mitt Romney, might decide he can’t attend meetings with tea and coffee present, or speak when any women in sleeveless tops are present. He just wants to practice his religion freely.
- Your Jehovah’s Witness employer, Serena Williams, might decide she doesn’t want to pay for blood transfusions to be covered in your healthcare package. She just wants to practice her religion freely.
- Your favourite entertainer, the rapper Ice Cube might decide that women aren’t allowed to attend his concerts unless they wear the hijab headscarf. He just wants to practice his religion freely.
So, to all you religious enthusiasts out there who think freedom of religion involves being placed above civil laws and telling other people how to live their lives, I would just like to inform you that somewhere along the line you have been sadly misinformed.
“I would just like to inform you that somewhere along the line you have been sadly misinformed.”
Indeed. If they keep this chit up, it’s going to come back in bite them in the ass.
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When push comes to shove they back off as they did in Arizona. The problem is that by then they’ve already vilified and marginalized swathes of the population in the public conscience.
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Let’s hope the SCOTUS backs off, too. The contraception issue has nothing to do with their precious whittle conscience, and “sincere religious beliefs”. Otherwise Hobby Lobby wouldn’t be importing most of their products from China.
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Ooooh, are they being inconsistent with the morality stick? How very unlike Christians!
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“The owners, who are more Jesus-y than Jesus, have a small problem with the part of the Affordable Care Act that says that their employees should get a full array of contraceptive choices in their company insurance plan. Specifically, they have a real hard-on for the ‘Morning After Pill’ which they regard as ‘abortion in a pill’ because a truly righteous women would already be on the pill, and anyone who needs Plan B is obviously a impulsive cock-monster whore who can’t control her libido after a pitcher or two of mango sangria at Applebees.
Presumably Hobby Lobby doesn’t want their mainly female workforce to be coming in late to work every morning because they had to stop at the drugstore for an abortion pill and a Twix bar. Anyway, the owners of Hobby Lobby took their complaint to the Supreme Court to get them to make the government stop compelling them to shove abortion pills down their employee’s throats.”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/26/hobby-lobby-is-not-slang-for-vagina-a-guide-for-guys/
I effing kid you not.
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Well, their Christian concern is understandable, the Bible has clear rules about the use of the morning after pill … I mean, it would almost be like having to employ divorcees, people with tattoos or, worse, providing bacon sandwiches.
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As usual religious leaders have intentionally mangled basic logic to intentionally deceive the public and thereby further their agenda. Now we have masses of people who genuinely believe it’s their religious right to force other people to follow the tenets of their religion.
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They live in such sheltered Christian communities that they forget other religions and other denominations exist. We just need some Muslims, Hindus and a few more obscure religious folks to start kicking up a similar fuss for their version of morality. It’s a shame for all those Muslims doing business with women who have hair on display – I hate to think my tresses are denying them their religious freedom. The same for the cake makers – imagine having to look at gay people getting married! And the employers having to look at employees on contraception, paid for with their money (regardless of how the judgement goes). It’s just all so sinful, and the god God must be turning in his grave.
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Hah — truth.
“Is Plan B really an abortion pill?
No. However Chief Justice John Roberts said that the belief that something is an abortion is enough to allow a religious exemption to federal law. So, if you believe it, it is true. This is what is known in legal circles as “The Orly Taitz Rationale.”
Welcome to America. Idiocracy at its finest.
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Idiocracy in action at the SCOTUS.
Keep in mind that the United Nations declared access to family planning a fundamental human right. Dr. Babatunde Osotimehin, executive director of the U.N. Population Fund, stated:
“Not only does the ability for a couple to choose when and how many children to have help lift nations out of poverty, but it is also one of the most effective means of empowering women. Women who use contraception are generally healthier, better educated, more empowered in their households and communities and more economically productive.”
Seeing the bigger picture here?
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Nice quote, thanks. I’ll be redistributing it.
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I don’t understand these people.
How does selling flowers to a LGBT couple infringe on their religious freedom?
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Absolutely. They might as well lock themselves in cupboards. Made from trees they chopped down themselves.
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How can they frame a rich v poor issue- the Affordable Care Act, reducing the numbers of those without medical insurance- as a religious issue, to get the poor on side? Propaganda is so efficient that polls showed opposition to “Obamacare” but support for the “Affordable Care Act”.
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Claire, if they win, if corporations become people of faith, they will have the legal right to turn away LGTB and unbelievers from hospitals and clinics owned by these corporations. They’ve turned this into a case about abortion. It’s a loop hole. Justice Roberts suggested that someone’s mere belief that something is an abortion is enough to trigger an religious exemption to federal law. WTF?
Employers’ religious views will be able to dictate healthcare beyond birth control. The Catholic church owns 4 of the top 6 top Healthcare corporations. 10 of the 25 largest nonprofit hospital systems in the country are Catholic, and Catholic hospitals care for 1 in 6 patients. Catholic hospitals are required to follow health care directives handed down by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops. If these cases win, we would be idiots to think they won’t take full advantage across the scale.
If religious corporations are empowered to discriminate, banks owned by religious corporations, for example, can deny an unwed mother a loan because, well, you know, women having sex out of wedlock goes against their “sincere religious beliefs.”
Can you see where this is going? I am stunned that these lawsuits and at least 100 others are even being entertained by the highest court in the country. But what I’ve been reading as of late, all signs point to these corporations winning without any sound evidence to their claims. In other words, their objections are not grounded in science. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists stated: “There is a scientific distinction between a contraceptive and an abortifacient and the scientific record demonstrates that none of the FDA-approved contraceptives covered by the Mandate are abortifacients.”
Source: http://sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/13-354-BRIEF-OF-AMICI-CURIAE-PHYSICIANS-FOR-REPRODUCTIVE-HEALTH-et-al….pdf
“LGBT, HIV, and Women’s Groups Speak Out Against Efforts to Let Corporations Discriminate — 50 Groups Issue Statement Against Extreme Agenda in State Bills and U.S. Supreme Court Case that Would Let Corporations Pick and Choose Laws to Obey
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/lgbt-hiv-womens-groups-speak-out-against-efforts-let-corporations-discriminate-42704.htm
You know what? My community is apathetic about all this.
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Oh, and if you or anyone else thinks I’m being dramatic about the possibility (probability) of denying atheists healthcare or other services — on Tuesday, the managing director of American Atheists, Inc. reported that she was refused notary service at a TD bank in Cranford, NJ because of her atheist affiliation. =/
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What do you think all this extremism is a reaction to? Has it always been there and the growth in the atheist or liberal community is freaking them all out, or are there other factors at play? Could it just be a big case of freaky paranoia for all the closest racists in the US who can’t digest having a non-white president? I don’t know, maybe we need to keep a closer eye on the space weather.
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Well, you opened up a can worms and all of the above. They’ve been laying the groundwork for quite sometime. But we are also at the end of an 11 year solar cycle. Russian scientist Alexander Chizhevsky aka A.L. Tchijevsky, observed that mass changes in human behavior correlated to sunspot cycles. He found an 11.1 year cycle in the number of major battles, riots, migrations, and human excitability in 72 countries going back to 500 B. Professor Raymond Wheeler, a historian at the University of Kansas, researched his observation and afforded numerical rankings. I also discovered that his data was statistically analyzed by Edward Dewey, who apparently validated the existence of these cycles and human behavior..
Other neuroscience research also shows this affects physiological mechanisms, such as altered brain rhythms and abnormal hormonal levels — even mass psychosis. Other findings:
Tchijevsky concluded that 80% of the major events of human drama occurred during the 5 years around maximum in sunspot activity.
“The maximum of human activities in correlation with the maximum of sunspot activity, expresses itself in the following:
“The dissemination of different doctrines (political, religious, etc.), the spreading of heresies, religious riots, pilgrimages, etc.”
“The appearance of social, military and religious leaders, reformers…”
“The formation of political, military and religious and commercial corporations, associations, unions, leagues, sects, companies, etc….”
Source: “Physical Factors of the Historical Process” A.L. Tchijevsky 1926
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That’s fascinating! I’ll have to add it to my long list of things to read about … where do you keep all these facts in your head??
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LOL — I keep a lot on my NRP blog, and I have piles of files. You are like a release valve for me (a pressure cooker), so thank you. ;D
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Yes, that’s on my long list of things to have a longer look at – you’ve got so many videos as well. Glad to have you releasing on my posts …
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😀
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I don’t know what these “Christian” lawmakers think will happen if/when some other religion becomes prevalent here in the States. It’s really in their best interests to keep religion and civil liberties separate things. Religion is an individual matter of the heart, not to be government sponsored or mandated. If they keep crossing the line when some other(think Islam) religious group becomes the majority they will have every idea and reason to cross those same boundaries. The Christians will be coming out of the woodworks to scream to the top of their lungs, ‘Keep church and state separate,’ then.
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Exactly! When the war of terrorism shock waves have passed, Islam is likely to continue its steady growth. It’s much more appealing than Christianity for angry people predisposed to religion.
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Or it could simply be freedom people are worried about. As there is no right dependent on labor and efforts of others there is no right to healthcare. The ACA forces people to pay for something for others, doesn’t really matter what the thing in question happens to be, it’s a violation of individual liberty.
VW you are right (note the time and date) Islam is something to worry about, but it is the centralized statist government you seem to prefer that will enable Islam. That’s the problem with collectivism, the collective always has a queen and when that queen is Islam, well that’s going to be just fantastic.
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OK — I find this interesting that you think that saving lives, preventing the possibility of serious injury, preventing over-population, adding to the stability of families/societies, and decreasing poverty is a violation of individual liberty. There has been well-documented studies showing that giving women no-cost birth control decreased abortion dramatically.
A new study by investigators at Washington University reports that providing birth control to women at no cost substantially reduces unplanned pregnancies and cuts abortion rates by a range of 62 to 78 percent compared to the national rate.
This study, called the Contraceptive Choice Project, enrolled 9,256 women and adolescents in the St. Louis area between 2007 and 2011. Participants were 14 to 45 years of age, at risk for unintended pregnancy and willing to start a new contraceptive method.
Among girls ages 15 to 19 who had access to free birth control provided in the study, the annual birth rate was 6.3 per 1,000, far below the U.S. rate of 34.3 per 1,000 for girls the same age.
http://medschool.wustl.edu/news/patient_care/Contraceptive_Choice
I will also note that no-cost contraception doesn’t make women more likely to engage in risky sexual behavior.
“http://journals.lww.com/greenjournal/Citation/2014/04000/Change_in_Sexual_Behavior_With_Provision_of.7.aspx
However, women under the ACA are not getting ‘free’ birth control. They are paying out-of-pocket with their insurance premiums. In addition to the obvious benefits of protecting against unwanted pregnancy and abortions, studies show that hormonal conception protects women against endometrial and ovarian cancer and also keeps women from becoming anemic. Other studies show that it can decrease infertility problems, regulates periods, and for women who already have polycystic ovary syndrome, there’s a bevy of reduced side-effects
Maybe you can explain to me why the insurance Hobby Lobby offers their employees covers erectile dysfunction drugs? I’ve never heard of a man dying or potentially having severe injuries, or losing a job, or dropping out of school, or plunging into poverty from not being able to get an erection.
And maybe you can also explain to me why a company such as this religious Hobby Lobby purchases most of their crafts from a country (China) who requires forced abortions to keep the population under control and is pro-contraceptive, and has a botched human rights record; or the fact that their numbers on infanticide, orphans, and child-abandonment are abysmal; OR the fact that China greatly restricts religious liberty.
And while we are on the subject, why has Hobby Lobby chosen to address the contraceptive mandate but not other morally questionable issues within the U.S. government, such as the funding of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Fundamentalism is something to worry about, period, and that includes Christian fundamentalism. They are a death cult. Are you a fundie?
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NRP
“I find this interesting that you think that saving lives, preventing the possibility of serious injury, preventing over-population, adding to the stability of families/societies, and decreasing poverty is a violation of individual liberty. There has been well-documented studies showing that giving women no-cost birth control decreased abortion dramatically.”
Again assumptive hyperbole and not relevant to health care being or not being a right. Send them all the birth control YOU would like and I will do the same.
“Maybe you can explain to me why the insurance Hobby Lobby offers their employees covers erectile dysfunction drugs?” Sure, to make money for pharma and health insurance companies. As to the rest of your Hobby Lobby questions, I have no interest in this for Hobby Lobby, I am am not their rep and where they buy anything has no relevance to the question is or is not health care a right?
Am I a Fundie? well I am a pretty fun person but I am not a member of any faith. I am however a fundie logician and rationalist.
As to the question, can you attempt a rational justification for health care being a right? Without all the irrelevant talk about how I want children to die so I can burn their bodies to fuel my yacht?
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I can tell you, based on your dialog and gross lack of awareness, that you have neural circuity that has deactivated in the prefrontal cortex. You see, this happens when you worship your sugar daddy in the sky. You function from your limbic system. That you cannot see why universal heath care is a human right — says much about your brain signiture.
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correction: *signature
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So I should take that as “No, sorry but I cannot make a rational argument for health care as a right”? I guess I didn’t really expect one anyway as there isn’t such an argument to be made.
Thanks for the completely juvenile insults, clearly you are are an enlightened individual. Again your argument for health care as a right would be what?
Suger daddy in the sky? umm ok, I guess I MAY need to draw a picture. I worship no one, no thing and no god. I believe I said as much, again, just a bit up the page.
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My bad — you sure sound like a fundie.
The Declaration of Independence states that all men (citizens of the U.S.) have the unalienable right to life, which entails having the health care needed to preserve life. Preamble of the US Constitution states its purpose is to “promote the general welfare” of the people. All Americans have the right to an education and all Americans should equally have the right to health care because they both “promote the general welfare.” The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that “everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of oneself and one’s family, including… medical care.” http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
Bottom line — universal health care will ensure the well being and survival of our species.
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So again, do you have an actual argument or case of any kind? Your misguided and erroneous conclusion regarding the US DOI, lack of understanding of the US constitution and link to the UN are not an argument or case.
Or a broader question might be easier for you, what gives you a right to my life, be it directly or monitized?
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“So again, do you have an actual argument or case of any kind?”
I smell a troll.
“It was said in the old days that every year Thor made a circle around Middle-earth, beating back the enemies of order. Thor got older every year, and the circle occupied by gods and men grew smaller.
The wisdom god, Woden, went out to the king of the trolls, got him in an armlock, and demanded to know of him how order might triumph over chaos.
“Give me your left eye,” said the king of the trolls, “and I’ll tell you.”
Without hesitation, Woden gave up his left eye. “Now tell me.”
The troll said, “The secret is, Watch with both eyes!”
― John Gardner
I don’t feed trolls. Good day.
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Right, so you have no argument. So does troll now mean anyone who does not agree with you and does not go away after you insult them? Intresting.
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Just in case you are genuinely confused about what happened there, Hewho, Victoria presented you with a very clear argument backed up with what we call ‘sources’, which demonstrate the validity of her case. You then responded to her rather lengthy explanation with:
“So I should take that as “No, sorry but I cannot make a rational argument for health care as a right”?”
In the world of reasonable and fruitful discussion, we pick up the threads of what the other person has carefully laid out and elaborate on our personal reaction to each item, based on logic and reference to other of these ‘sources’ I alluded to. In the world of trolls, people ignore everything that’s written, dismiss the evidence and food for conversation out of hand, and tell the person they are wrong, while encouraging them to continue wasting time by presenting yet more information. I think Victoria wisely opted out of wasting more of her time on you.
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VW, thank you for the clarification, however I did understand what happened there. She did indeed present sources, however as I said they were misunderstood and therefore not really relevant. Meaning the preamble to the US Constitution is in no way a validation of health care as a right, same with the wording of the DOI. There are vast amounts of information written by the individuals who wrote both documents that explain what they meant by the words she referenced. She simply does not understand the material she is referencing. As to the UN document, Anything that references “free” in regard to something that requires effort has, in so doing, exposed itself as absent of any validity. I see you have asked me the question what do I think about rights on another post, I will be happy to explain more there.
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