modern-day christian bigots
I have a bit of a problem with concentration and time these days. I don’t have much time, and when I do, I find it difficult to concentrate. I’m reading things quickly and often picking up the wrong message.
Statisonline, a friend of the anti-gay marriage Christian crew, did a post today challenging people to question their understanding of the anti-gay Christian crew:
Every now and again, you hear the argument that Christians in the past were wrong about whether inter-racial marriage was sinful, and the suggestion that likewise, contemporary Christians are wrong about gay marriage being sinful. And certainly there have been Christians who have claimed that inter-racial marriage is sinful. But was the broad American opposition in past centuries to inter-racial marriage, based purely on the Bible, or was it more of a cultural policy?
I don’t know much about the history of opposition to inter-racial marriage, so I did a quick google. I found something I wasn’t expecting. I found what appears to be a modern-day Christian arguing that inter-racial marriage is immoral.
Egalitarian propaganda has so efficaciously transformed our minds in the last several decades that even the slightest resistance to it – even a father’s stating a mere preference against it – is deemed the unforgivable sin. But given the historical Christian witness against miscegenation, this Pavlovian moral indignation deserves a new assessment. It deserves an assessment which vindicates the historical Christian belief on these matters, showing how intertwined an anti-miscegenist and anti-racial egalitarian outlook is with the rest of Christian and biblical morality. (faithandheritage.com)
Did I read this too quickly? Surely I’m picking up the wrong message. The website strapline reads ‘Occidental Christianity for Preserving Western Culture and People’. I went to check out the ‘Authors’ page on this website, a long list of Christians from all over the world. Here are the first two:
Adi is a Calvinist Boer/Afrikaner of Dutch, German and French Huguenot ancestry currently pursuing a PhD in Theology. He comes from a politically active family background as his grandfather served as a member of parliament for many years in the previous National Party government in South Africa.
Angus McClure is a Southern Presbyterian (in the most paleo sense), and enjoys living in the Hill Country of Texas with his family. He works in corporate sales for a profession, but enjoys getting back to the “old ways” by raising chickens. Angus is a lover of Texas and Southern heritage.
Just when you think you’ve seen everything modern-day Christian bigots have to throw at the world, you get a curve ball like this.
So both come from areas of die-hard racism. I shudder to think how they feel about inter-racial gay marriage (I don’t always shudder, but it DOES
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They probably refuse to acknowledge that gay marriage exists. That’s only the first two, there’s a long list of people like them from all over the world. I love how they couch it in as formal language as possible to make it seem academic and factual, with a benign tone to make it friendly, and giving ‘practical’ reasons why inter-racial marriage is harmful. Just like the other bigots.
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So both come from areas of die-hard racism. I shudder to think how they feel about inter-racial gay marriage (I don’t always shudder, but it DOES help me think).
I suppose they totally reject the science that we all come from Africa, and that our original heritage was black African, and that only in the last few thousand years, has our respective skin colors changed to acclimate us to our newest environments —
I have NO idea how that partial comment posted by itself – the internet works in mysterious ways, its wonders to perform —
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Ah, I thought it was just an odd typo at the end of your sentence. I post so many error-packed comments on people’s blogs. I’m surprised they make sense of them. (I’m not as bad as Ark though)
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“(I’m not as bad as Ark though)” – who is?
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Archy are you sure you are not seeing doubly due to use of some banned substance?
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Nope, no banned substances, just vodka, and I’m all out of that.
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I can’t say for a moment I understood what I read. Maybe it’s late and I should be asleep. I will revisit tomorrow
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To be honest, I had to read it several times, because I thought I must be picking it up incorrectly … I would wonder if I still was but for the strapline and bios of the authors.
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Smile…you really know how to pick ’em, don’t you?
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I’m stunned they exist … in the open no less, and willing to pop over to admit it like a flouncy peacock, showing off their bigoted biblical superiority to anything Statis has to offer. I hope Statis pops over too. And Bigot.
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You have your hands full with this brand new shiny Crispyan, triuthandreasonable (Oxymoron if ever I saw one.)
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Oh no, I’m not following any of his conversations, they’re all with other people. Anyone who thinks there’s a creator’s destroy law, that sandcastles are comparable to people, and that medieval and ancient history are interchangeable is a bit of a lost cause. Not as lost a cause as the idiots that have popped out of the woodwork for this post though … I feel sick. Don’t click on their faqs.
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“Did I read this too quickly? Surely I’m picking up the wrong message.”
Nope.
“I don’t know much about the history of opposition to inter-racial marriage”
And obviously neither does your anti-homosexual friend. Opposition to inter-racial marriage was upwards of 95%+ before 1960, especially among Bible-believing Christians and it was most certainly “based purely on the Bible” for them. Tell your friend to have fun trying to handle these:
http://faithandheritage.com/2014/04/finis-dake-on-racial-segregation/
http://faithandheritage.com/2014/03/dr-morton-h-smith-on-christianity-race-and-segregation/
http://faithandheritage.com/2013/09/a-christian-view-on-segregation/
http://faithandheritage.com/2013/08/is-segregation-scriptural/
Your friend is guaranteed to lose in the end because they’ve taken a fundamentally inconsistent position. Either both are immoral or neither is.
Also, obligatory sexual perversion is wrong whatever form it takes, etc. etc. etc.
Have a great day.
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Thanks for clarifying the position Nathanael, I hope you can stick around for a discussion. I’m new to the arena of potential issues with inter-racial marriages, so I’m wondering where you think people can find pedigree races to breed with. Can a white looking person from Texas marry someone of Mayan looking origin from Mexico? Can a dark-skinned person in Spain marry someone with lighter skin from Spain, or someone with even lighter skin from Morocco? Can a white Protestant from Norway marry a white Catholic from the USA? Perhaps you could point me a post that clarifies where the pure bred people live, or maybe if you understood anything about the history of the world you’d know there’s no such thing.
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Egalitarian propaganda (fail)
even a father’s stating a mere preference against it (sounds like a personal problem)
… given the historical Christian witness against miscegenation (oh, he means bigotry and hate)
this Pavlovian moral indignation deserves a new assessment. (we’re not supposed to be indignant when bigots ‘speak their minds’ about all the people they hate)
It deserves an assessment which vindicates the historical Christian belief on these matters, (because everyone knows that christian bigotry and hate is righteous in the eyes of a vengeful, hateful, and bigoted god)
showing how intertwined an anti-miscegenist and anti-racial egalitarian outlook is with the rest of Christian and biblical morality. (this is the part that I think we all knew already – the surprise is hearing some of them admit it)
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Ooh, love your translation efforts. It’s not just someone. It’s a little gaggle of them and a couple of them have popped over to poop more of their foul links here.
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“I love how they couch it in as formal language as possible to make it seem academic and factual, with a benign tone to make it friendly, and giving ‘practical’ reasons why inter-racial marriage is harmful.”
Also known as “heads, I win; tails, you lose.”
We’ve offered the rationales, now you can either look into it or remain culpably ignorant. Your choice. http://faithandheritage.com/faq/
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Yeah, I was loathed to give you the traffic, and I feel sick now after reading that tripe. I recommend no-one else clicks on links to your website. You should be left to oblivion. Your only redeeming feature is you might illustrate to some of the anti-gay marriage lobby just how repulsive they are in the eyes of others, and how the Bible and poor arguments based on ‘fact’ can be used to justify any form of bigotry.
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Hmmmm… is that someone feeling the incredible urge to say ‘undereducated imbecile’?
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On this occasion I have an incredible urge to say a whole lot worse than that. Some of the anti-gay marriage lobby we’ve encountered so far are confused conservatives caught in a time of change and trying to make sense of it all. These people take it to another level
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Just out of curiosity, are you the descendent of immigrants to North America? I ask because those were generally the underclasses who couldn’t quite make the cut in Britain or Europe. If we’re going to talk about inferiority, we should really take that into account as well.
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I have even more of a problem. I understand neither the atheist not the religious loop, and although I know it should concern me, – a mi no me interesada nada. Why don’t people go give money to homeless people or rescue abandoned animals instead of prattling on about crap. Sorry Violet, but seriously, what is the added value?
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Well, there’s a vocal Christian minority campaigning for gay people to be treated in a way that makes them depressed and often suicidal, and campaigning for women to be treated as second-class citizens with no decision-making powers and confined to the role of broodmare with no access to birth control. They are gaining popularity in some parts of the world, stopping gay people from being allowed to marry or adopt, stopping women from accessing safe and legal abortion facilities, stopping women from actively seeking equal rights. I think it’s worth fighting against through exposure and discussion. If you don’t see any added value in exposing their tripe and taking them to task for their harmful actions, I can’t help you. But if I told you they probably don’t think animals deserve any rights would you budge? 😀
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I understand that, thank you Violet. Seems like the world is talking down to me right now so I can handle your comment 🙂
Surprisingly from my little sheltered Rock I am vaguely aware of these issues. I have even written about them. Gosh!
I don’t think I can add any value. That is the bottom line. I am the devil incarnate. Why would they listen to me? Look at bigot’s rude replies to me.
No, I’ll fight my battles other ways.
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Others kept it up until 2000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Jones_University#Dropping_the_no-interracial-dating_rule
Long after Loving v Virginia (yes, yes, I know, Roughseas is right) US State constitutions kept a ban on interracial marriage, even though it was no longer enforcible.
Why am I interested? Well, being queer, it matters to me- but also I am interested in what people believe and how they argue. I think it is Biblical somewhere- God splitting the races, each to their own country- and the need for the Chosen People to be Pure is very clear from Nehemiah.
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It should be clear, Clare, all the way back to Abraham, who sent a man from Israel all the way to Assyria, to being a female cousin back for his son, Isaac, so Issac wouldn’t be reduced to intermarrying with Canaanite women.
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Yes, I wonder what Statis would have to say about it. I don’t think my comment has even been approved.
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At Pentecost the Holy Spirit came to the disciples and they began speaking in many languages.
Jesus demonstrated what was to become a modern attitude toward women.
Jesus also said that all the scriptures boiled down to two things:
Love God and love thy neighbor.
Christianity is color blind and teaches that the image of God is male and female.
Racism is antithetical to Christianity.
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“they began speaking in many languages.” – known in psychiatric terms as, “glossolalia.”
Samarin, William J. (1972). Tongues of Men and Angels: The Religious Language of Pentecostalism. New York: Macmillan..
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How is he not in prison for child abuse?
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Arch,
My citation of the Bible has nothing to do with glossolalia.
The tongues the disciples began speaking where real languages.
And the people were amazed the Galilean peasants could speak all the languages of the realm.
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And the uneducated Galilean peasants knew those languages well, right? Paul tells us that speaking in tongues was to speak the language of the angels (1 Corinthians).
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Arch,
My comment doesn’t concern speaking in tongues.
I was referring to scripture to show that Christianity is inclusive and teaches that all people deserve respect.
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Thanks SOM, I think this comment provides confirmation that you are a Christian. Apart from the bit where you claim Jesus and his 12 male disciples demonstrated a modern attitude to equality, this pretty much made sense.
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Wisp,
If you read the Bible, you could know what I know.
My comment has nothing to do with me being Christian.
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Should you not be in bed? It must be 3am there.
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Not Wisp, but I DO read the Bible, and I know far more than you think you know.
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Jesus’s attitude about women is to treat his mother like crap, and tell her that she’s not his family, this his friends are. (Matthew 12:46-49) That’s NOT a good example, cupcake.
Your deities supposedly want to torture ALL people that don’t subscribe to your delusion. That’s torturing people FOREVER for a thought crime. That is pure evil, in fact, it is the ultimate evil of all time. Not love.
Your book is NOT colour-blind, and it is extremely racist and violent. The Tower of Babel had your genocidal dirtbag deity willfully separating people and creating differences and misunderstandings between them. Loving people create common ground and understanding. Your deity hated entire tribes of people, and often murdered them at will, for stupid reasons: The Canaanites, the Amalekites, the Moabites, the Edomites–the list just goes on and on and on and on and on.
And if that’s not enough, your book says it’s a GOOD thing to enslave “foreigners” and pagans, into perpetuity. Since wen did enslaving people for being different NOT count as racist?
Racism is definitely par for the course for your book.
You should be ashamed of yourself for subscribing to such a violent and hateful delusion.
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Secret,
Your interpretation of Matthew is the usual horrific atheist mess.
Atheists need to learn what the Bible means instead of assigning their own perverted meaning to it.
If you assign your own meaning to things instead of learning what they really mean, how can you ever learn anything?
If you would like to learn what the Bible actually means, I will be happy to help out.
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@Secret – in case your repertoire of languages doesn’t include SillinessOfMind-speak, allow me to translate that for you:
Arch,
I don’t have my own version of the Bible.
That’s just you projecting your own bad habits upon me.
Catholics learn their doctrines from the Church. That’s why the Church is the oldest institution in the world.
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I saw a short film once, Silliness, of a flock of sheep being herded through an opening in a fence. A stick had been placed across the opening, at the height of about a foot, and for each sheep to pass, the sheep had to leap over the stick. After the first 20 or 30 sheep had passed through the opening, the stick was quietly removed, yet the remaining sheep continued to jump a foot in the air, upon passing through the gate. Everytime I think of that, I think of Catholics.
The Catholic Church – in fact, all of Christianity – would have long ago crumbled into the dust, along with all of the other Middle-Eastern religious cults, had it not been for the Emperor Constantine, and his desperate attempt to hold together the Roman Empire.
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Arch,
Your comment is an expression of bigotry.
There is no more diverse group of people than Catholics.
If you want to see a lively discussion, try having supper with 4 or 5 priests.
Unlike atheists who all think alike, Catholicism renders people into the individuals that they born to be.
Each human being is a one-off.
But atheism demands total conformity or else a hell of bigotry and abuse breaks loose.
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And yet you maintain, as you did in an earlier comment, that you don’t have a personal version of the Bible, you adhere to the Catholic version. Can you say, “oxymoron”?
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Dirty Bird,
The Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church.
Consequently, it is the Church who gets to say what the Bible means with regard to Christianity.
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“…currently pursuing a PhD in Theology”
This makes me chuckle as I recall Thomas Paine’s 1794 observation that:
“The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on nothing; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing.”
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That’s not strictly true. They get the opportunity to learn big, unnecessary words, like ‘miscegenation’, to make old-fashioned bigoted barbarism sound fancy.
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Don’t you find it hilarious that in 1,700 years NOTHING new has been added to Christian theology? Sure, there were some medieval wordsmiths who built some ontological word salads, but nothing actually “new” has been added. Just a bunch of people continuously redefining the same ugly, tasteless fruitcake. Christian philosophy is painfully hilarious.
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Aha, so it is all a study of big words. Hart recently added ground of being to his collection of words
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And isn’t it interesting how they appropriated the word ‘doctor’ early on to give themselves status? In the US you can become a Doctor of Divinity for as little as $29.99. I wonder why QVC isn’t selling certificates?
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$29.99 seems a little expensive for the nonsense piece of paper 😉
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I’m going to have to go with Statisonline on this one. For Christians, it’s not just that there are no verses in support of miscengenation. There are not even verses to quote out of context! So, finding a few bigots on a random internet website only exposes bigotry and doesn’t say anything about the original religion. I could just as easily go out of my way to find atheist bigots.
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You’re going with Statis? And in 20 years time all your like will say that the homosexuality verses are quoted out of context (orgies) and have nothing to say about committed long-term relationships.
“I could just as easily go out of my way to find atheist bigots.”
Interesting. And what shared sourced of supernatural inspiration would the atheists be drawing their conclusions from? That’s as relevant as finding a Muslim or Hindu bigot.
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Statis’ explanation is just all out better, more reasonable and evident. Who cares if bigotry can be associated with supernaturalism, bigotry is bigotry and it can be found in all worldviews, yes, including your own.
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Hate to labour the point, only difference being I can’t justify and perpetuate any kind of bigotry I care to adopt by using the Bible. The Bible has been and is used to justify repulsive actions and prolong harmful attitudes towards slaves, towards women, towards homosexuals and towards people in interracial relationships. The racists dedicate several posts to justifying their position explicitly using the Bible, as other bigots still do today regarding homosexual marriage. The parallel is clear and valid.
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I definitely agree with this much!
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Really? I obviously didn’t understand what aspect of Statis’ comment you were agreeing with then.
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I agree with Statis that miscengenation originated in the culture, not the Christian religion. It’s like patriarchy that we discussed recently. But, I agree with you that it was always done “in the name of God” or scripture or supernaturalism.
Violet, I should let you know that even today when I go to church I basically don’t buy anything that’s being said unless it’s vetted with reason and sound theology. It’s just too easy to misinterpret, misconceive, give in to tribalism, or buy misinformation.
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You aren’t picking it up wrong, Wisp. They exist. I know some of them. In the rural South interracial marriage is still quite taboo. My white friend who is married to a black man gets ugly looks, mumbling about how she’s a ni**er-lover loud enough for her to hear it, nasty things said about her half-bread child. It’s effing ridiculous. They’re both professionals, they pay their own bills, they’re happy together. Makes me sick to my stomach, but there are a lot of loud and proud bigots around.
Incidentally, my step-daughter had a crush on a black guy in high school. She brought it up to me and told me she had been taught through her Bible study group that it was a sin and asked me what I thought. I told her I could find nothing to that effect in scripture. What I found, as far as mating outside of tribes was concerned, had to do with a) Israel building a nation and b) marrying outside of like faith. I explained to her that the only thing I could consider a sin in a relationship with him would be if weren’t a Christian. He was. Apart from that I told her to look at the stigma associated with such a relationship. I did not tell her not to have one, but I wanted her to be prepared for the backlash of such because it can be very ugly. I also knew that her own dad would likely disown her(he had told her so himself on several occasions) because he believes races should not intermarry and whether I agreed with that or not it was something she needed to consider.
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That’s pretty shocking. Statisonline was talking about it like a thing of the past. Even SOM seems subdued by this one. I guess even after insanity is struck off the general consciousness, it still exists in pockets. But quite big pockets by the sounds of it.
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Most people don’t talk about it unabashedly like this because they know it isn’t PC, but it’s out there. Yes, people do still believe this tripe, even if they’re just whispering it in each others’ ears.
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I’m a middle-aged student in college right now, and there are young people getting into hellacious brawls with their families for crossing racial lines, or getting told that if they date X race, they’ll be disowned. I was a child when Dr. King was still alive, and when the USSC made their Loving decision. I sometimes find it hard to believe that we’re not much further ahead in our attitudes.
But I’m not really surprised, either. The worst bigots out there are overwhelmingly christer. Not all of them, but 99.9999% are.
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Secret,
The KKK was founded by Democrats to punish Republicans and to keep blacks from voting.
Democrat sex abuser and proven liar, Bill Clinton’s mentor was segregationist Democrat Senator William Fulbright.
Democrat President Lyndon Johnson once said, ‘Ill have the niggers voting Democrat for the next 200 years.”
That was the rationale for his Great Society War On Poverty.
“The Projects” and inner city ghettos are nothing more than concentration camps for Blacks and other people of color.
White Northern Christians died by the 10’s of thousands fighting their Southern brothers so that Black slaves could be free.
That had never been done before in human history.
So the idea that Christians are racist is an obvious lie put forth by the real Democrat Party bigots to disguise their own racism.
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Silliness, your grasp of American History is nearly as distorted as your understanding of the Judeo/Christian religion. The average Northerner fought in America’s Civil War primarily because he was swept up in the patriotic fervor of believing that the South had no right to secede from the Union of States, and that dividing the country would weaken it, and the Southern attack on Fort Sumpter lit the powderkeg. Very few Northerners of the time were any less dismissive of the status of Blacks, than their “Southern brothers” – less than a hundred years earlier, the Founding Fathers themselves had owned slaves. In fact, a black Union regiment, composed of Black soldiers was formed during the Civil War, and saw very little action, as the powers that be decided that Blacks were incapable of adequately fighting what they deemed to be “a White Man’s war,” and spent most of the entire four years performing, for the most part, servile duties.
I, personally, am a Democrat, as in this country, the Republican Party has become the party of the rich. At a fundraiser in Dallas, when running for his second term, Republican Little George “W,” standing behind the podium in his address to the audience, drawled, “Well, here I am, among the Have’s and the Have-More’s – or as I like to think of you, my base —” I think he fairly summed up the Republican party in a single phrase. The man did have a way with words, when he could think of them.
On the other hand, in my life as an American Democrat, I have been active in the Civil rights movement, and in fact, marched with Dr. King from Selma, Alabama to Montgomery – the march that triggered the Civil Rights Act of 1965 that basically struck down all of the laws previously used by racists to separate and impede Black Americans, so your “racist Democrat” rant won’t wash.
I think you’ll find, Sil, that generally speaking, one’s degree of religious commitment is inversely proportionate to that individual’s degree of education and intellect, for which concept, I’d like to nominate you as Poster Child.
You’re welcome.
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Wisp,
Your atheist re-write of American history is not amusing.
Your argument is as nonsensical as saying the American soldier didn’t free the world from total fascist hell by winning World War II because most of them were drafted into the armed forces.
You need to actually read Abraham Lincoln’s own words instead of parroting the contents of your talking points file.
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First of all, your Silliness is showing (again!) – I’m not “Wisp,” I’m the good-looking one.
I was drafted into the Army, and I can assure you that I didn’t go because I imagined the North Vietnamese rowing ashore on our western coasts in their sampans and militarily holding our McDonald’s hostage, I went because to politely decline the invitation, involved a prison term. The American did what he did in WW II because he was thrown into a situation where he was forced to kill or be killed. The first thing you’re indoctrinated with in the Army, is the dehumanization of “the enemy.”
“Abraham Lincoln’s own words” – love Abe like a brother from another mother, but Abe was a politician, making an unpopular decision to take half of this country to war with the other half – he said what he had to say.
My advice to you, Silliness, would be stay in school, don’t do drugs.
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Dirty Bird,
The Vietnam War cannot be compared to World War II.
You simply don’t know what you are talking about.
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It’s about people fighting for a war they believe in, vs fighting because they’ve been told they’ll be imprisoned in disgrace, if they don’t.
“The Vietnam War cannot be compared to World War II.”
Why not?
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Dirty Bird,
If you have to ask that question, you only prove my point.
Your “knowledge” about things consists only of atheist talking points.
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Your obvious inability to answer my question, suggests that your “knowledge” consists only of opinions, and you know what they say about those —
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Dirty Bird,
I’m not going to waste my time explaining something that you have no desire to know.
You’re a parrot.
And as any parrot owner can attest, they are among the dirtiest of birds.
You’re only surpassed by the garden variety duck in dirty department.
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And your verbal and cognitive skillsets imply you could only aspire to be a parrot, in your wildest fantasies!
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Dirty Bird,
The eloquent content of my comments speaks for itself.
Likewise, your talking point understanding of reality does gross injustice to all species of bird, dirty or otherwise.
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“The eloquent content of my comments speaks for itself.”
What eloquent content – did you post a comment I missed? Your inability to answer a simple question, speaks volumes for itself about the extent of your eloquence, or lack thereof.
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There should be a like button for comments.
I especially love the closing statement in this very comment.
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Your wish is my command! Sort of. I’ve added ratings to the comments.
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How come you never say that to me –?
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You’ve never wished for anything I could deliver. But if you have faith …
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Yeah, yeah – grain of mustard seed – I got it —
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