agreeing to disagree
The best thing about blogging is discussing ideas with people who have totally different life experiences. Especially in the area of religion, where I’m more likely to frequent, there are lots of points of view to consider.
However, it has come to my attention that lots of bloggers aren’t as open-minded about the opinions of other people as I would imagine a humble human being should be. Indeed, I was recently accused of being ‘intellectually dishonest’ by the best blogging buddy of one of my best blogging buddies. And this got me thinking about some advice I could patronisingly dish out to some of the more arrogant bloggers out there.
If you are discussing an issue with someone who doesn’t agree with you, there are a number of things you might want to consider before you resort to petty insults based on your curious belief that you have a superior brain:
1. If they don’t get your point of view, it might be because you are rubbish at explaining what you mean.
2. If they don’t get your point of view, you might have misunderstand what the conversation is about.
3. If they don’t get your point of view, you might be wrong.
4. If they don’t get your point of view, you can always amicably agree to disagree.
I mean, that’s not to say that you might be right, but please bear in mind if you’re disagreeing with me, you will invariably be incorrect.
I mean, that’s not to say that you might be right, but please bear in mind if you’re disagreeing with me, you will invariably be incorrect.
I bow to the queen…
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Well, you know, it wouldn’t be funny or make sense otherwise. 🙂
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😉
Irony wrapped in violet…
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Oh I like! Maybe I’ll change my strapline …
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😀
It is the color of royalty…
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Oh, and theists seem to love to trot out the “intellectually dishonest” card anytime an atheist disagrees with them. It’s as if to say if you don’t agree with them there is something wrong with you and your thinking. Certainly it cannot be them.
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I know, I find it a kind of pathetic attempt at an insult. Prefer dickhead (for those who have to stoop to insults … we know who they are, hehe)
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Right? If you’re going to insult me just do it, already. Don’t eff around.
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“please bear in mind if you’re disagreeing with me, you will invariably be incorrect.”
That conclusion would be based, I must presume, on “your curious belief that you have a superior brain” —
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Bingo! Sorry you felt you had to put that together … 😉
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My pleasure —
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I am the world’s worst, if someone disagrees with me I immediately assume that I haven’t explained it properly and I should just have another run at them.
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That seems like a sensible approach to me.
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Stubborn, yes. Intellectually dishonest, never.
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You? Oh, I know! 😀
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I can afford to be stubborn because I’m right all the time.
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What a curious outlook!
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but please bear in mind if you’re disagreeing with me, you will invariably be incorrect.
Really, it’s a curse, isn’t it 🙂
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😉
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Thinking of three long back-and-forth comment threads recently, I have bent backwards to explain, and eventually just started editing their comments, deleting bits, to make them look foolish. Managing to communicate would have been rewarding for me, but this works too.
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That’s shocking! I’m disappointed in you Clare. Although I do feel tempted ….
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I like the conclusion.
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Yes, I’m sure you’re in a similar position. 😉
By the way, I’m really confused by your blog at the moment. Are there two of you posting? Why does a different picture come up sometimes? Or a I following two blogs with the same name …?
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Don’t be confused no more, a friend of mine posts on the blog too. I introduced him a while back.
Whenever we seem to disagree I type slowly because many times I think the other person is slow to understand or reads slowly 🙂
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You should also inform them that you’re tying naked, so they don’t get unnecessarily distracted by your fabulous wardrobe.
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*typing, not tying 😦
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Oh yes, I forgot to mention that especially because we have ladies
visiting our blog and children 🙂
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Especially for the children. They do appreciate such thoughtfulness 😉
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I know 😛
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Sometimes change has to be forced. Sad, but true. Consider many aspects of society, race relations, women’s rights, children’s rights.
Religion falls into a similar bracket.
There is often little reasoning with a Young Earth Creationist, for example,or Muslim who wishes to try to justify Jihaad, as they are indoctrinated to ”cope” with genuine evidence that refutes their worldview.
Thus, the hard-arse approach; which may expose their fallacious arguments and perhaps lurkers may be inclined to rethink their own position.
I take no truck from anyone who considers I am a ”sinner” and will be burning in eternal hell once I die. None whatsoever.
No matter how you try to dress up ”manure”, in the end it is still simply shit and it smells.
Oh, and about religion? I am not wrong.
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Interesting. Give me one example where your ‘hard-arsed’ approach has exposed their fallacious arguments. You inevitably end up calling people names and come out looking like someone who couldn’t have had a decent argument in the first place. Yes, you may feel like you ‘won’ because you gave up on the ‘idiot’ and called them a dickhead, but to the casual observer, you simply lost the fight and had nothing more constructive to offer. I would rather suggest that you’re pushing lurkers the other way!
Anyway, this wasn’t about the deluded religious folks, it’s just about people who can’t admit their position isn’t very convincing and flounce off in silly strops. That Disperser guy was a prime example, a bit like you. Ranting at people and then declaring they were idiots wasting his time. It’s just a bit weird. You either want to discuss or you want to … rant and strop off? You tell me. And as for Pink calling me names, well, no surprise there, it’s his standard conclusion of a bad argument.
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Oh, I’m sorry, you don’t think calling out ”liars for Jesus” has exposed fallacious arguments?
Maybe you should visit Johnny Scaramanga’s blog on occasion?
Anyone who is inclined to dish out epithets about non believer’s going to hell, metaphorically crucifying those who support abortion, contraception, women’s rights, gay rights children’s rights etc etc ad nauseum is deserving of every piece of scorn.
You truly believe this is about ”having a decent argument”? Truly, is that what you think? That’s it;s some sort of point scoring game?
You believe the softly softly approach is what is needed to counteract die hard religious arseholes who push FGM and Jihaad?
You host a blog that primarily deals with religion and very often you go out of your way to choose topics from Christians who are several sandwiches short of a picnic – insanitybytes for one. Ask the Bigot for another.
I call people dickheads because they dickheads period.
You are entitled to believe whatever you like regarding lurkers, it hasn’t stopped you from chirping when the mood takes, I notice?
You like to pussy foot around and slip in the odd barb, though I notice you are not ”winning” any points either?
Different strokes fr different folks, Dear Violet.
If you have a sure fire winning formula to possitively derail people like John Barron, Bigot, DPmonahan,Insanity B or even clever dicks like Naivethinker, then please, let me know, okay?
Super!
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Good morning ranty-pants! So lovely to wake up to your charming words and tone. First of all, I have no idea why you are referencing Johnny’s polite and well-mannered blog as back up for your mindless insults. I’m quite sure his sustained campaign of sensibly toned exposures is having a beneficial effect somewhere.
However, I’m quite sure you just provide people with a stereotype of a shouty atheist who resorts to name-calling at the second hurdle (fair game to you, you do usually go one round before slipping your standards).
I’m also quite sure my little blog of cheeky posts and any subsequent discussions doesn’t really affect anyone’s opinions, but I personally find it interesting and enjoy trying to understand why people hold the opinions they do. I’m all intrigued psychologically like that. I hope that any comments I leave on viler blogs (like Bigots) give people another opinion to consider, and have noticed on a few occasions that other dissenters chirp up when they know they’re not alone.
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Morning, my dear hottie-from-the-hinterland!
I would suggest that Sam Harris appears to be/ is one of the most erudite and gentle atheists out there and yet, he has come under some serious vitriolic abuse from many, including dickheads like Reza Aslan.
Seems like a case of damned if y’do & damned if y’don’t, right?
So while some prefer the Cotton Wool approach, or to gently chide such folk for being a tad naughty ,even while young girls are having their clitoris removed because of religious reasons , or people are being decapitated for religious reasons or stoned or myriad socially unacceptable actions based solely on religion – and getting away with it – then I prefer to call a spade a shovel, and a good old rant is The Ark’s Way.
What can I say? They are dickheads.
Blow me a kiss and stop being so mean. 😉
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But Ark! You seems to know a thing or two about plants, how can you write off the value of manure so easily? 😉
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Lol…. you have a point, Jason. Maybe I should fertilize my garden with a few christians? What do you suggest, feet or head first?
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“What do you suggest, feet or head first?” – if you’re referring to the insertion protocol regarding the woodchipper, I really don’t believe that such a standard has ever been firmly established – it’s rather, whichever way is most convenient – for you, of course old chap, not necessarily for the insertee —
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I was considering planting all at once, rather than in bits. Just like those Slow Release fertilizer sticks you can buy at the hardware shop.
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Ah, I see – much clearer now. But when you queried regarding head or feet first, my mind automatically went to the woodchipper – I’m sure you can see the association, old bean.
Time-release, you say? What a novel concept. I shall have to try that one day. Exchanging tips on gardening can be SUCH a pleasant way to pass one’s time, don’t you think?
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“…..don’t you think?”
According to some … no.
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Yes, well, having read (sh)It Happens…. , there’s not a great deal I could say in your defense. You’re on your own there —
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Why do I read here? Because of your view that humility has value. I’m happy that you’ve come to that conclusion. I’m also happy that you share it with others. I want to be humble and listen. My nature contradicts it. I read “Christians Read This” when I first visited your blog and I have scientific training, so let me explain my nature this way: My impersonal genes, desiring to propagate themselves, do not value humility. They accentuate traits in me that win the competition for food, favors, and fecundity.
Why do I read Ark? He’s a good writer – – especially with dialogue. He too has a viewpoint that I want to understand. I realize that I can’t provide evidence that will validate my worship of Jesus. I realize that some do not accept Jesus as historically verifiable. I respect those views. I don’t mind being called a dickhead. I’ve been called worse.
I know that I could be wrong. My views on young earth creationism and non-Christian gay marriage have clearly changed. But the only way that I knew I was wrong was by listening and forming friendships. You and I could be friends. Ark and I could be adversaries. I’m honestly not offended. Minority report perhaps – – thanks for the post and the blog.
–1:16
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Thank you for writing something nice about Ark, I’m sure he’ll appreciate it and respond in kind. It’s good to hear that people are open to having their minds changed on issues, we should all take a leaf out of that book.
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See, see!!! Pascal understands tat some religious people just are dickheads.
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The genius of simplicity.
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That’s Richard to you …. and don’t you forget it!
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Reblogged this on russell & pascal and commented:
My web of reading is slowly expanding as I follow comments of blogs I read. It is crucial to listen to those who disagree. Especially crucial as Russell and I attempt to model our friendship as a dialogue and true affection. I found this post and this author helpful.
Pascal
–1:16
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