complementary comments of the month

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

Two comments in the last few days have stood out for me. And they go together so beautifully, I can’t help but bring them together for the viewing and pondering pleasure of the general public.

Mahatma Gandhi is probably in the same hell that Adolf Hitler is probably in and Jeffery Dahmer is probably in heaven. The difference is the blood of Jesus Christ. NO sin is more powerful than that blood and good wo[r]ks without it only the make the flames of hell hotter.

There are two kinds of people on this earth. Those who have been born dead and damned in the first man Adam (that’s everybody except Jesus) and those who have been born again into new life in the last. (that’s all those so eternally elected out of the first group by the Father and given to His Son) (John 6, Romans 5 and 1st Corinthians 15)  Tiribulus

The type of belief system described in the quote above teaches nothing of logic, compassion, justice or fairness, and doesn’t even begin to address what I had always understood was central to Christianity – the Golden Rule of many great philosophers – ‘love they neighbour as thyself’. I despair of anyone who can hold such beliefs, and many blogging buddies have engaged Tiribulus in discussion over the last week or so (it feels like years?) in an attempt to help him crawl out of this unfortunate world view.

But when it comes down to it, we all need a pinch of wisdom from our Finnish friend Raut, explaining what he learned from another, rather similar blogger he’s been investing a lot of time in:

At first, you see, I thought he just had some misinformation and that I could set him on a path to seek out better venues of info, if he chose to, but then slowly – much too slowly – I realized, that he was just making stuff up and pulling wild claims from his hat. And that he was totally incapable of even getting my meaning, no matter how I put my words.

It is good to have conversations with people who disagree with you sometimes, just to test your views, but one can hardly call it even a conversation, if the other person does not even understand what you are talking about and the both of you simply end up talking past each other…

With a child one can level down the terminology and explain what one means by few more words, but with someone who has very high presuppositions and biases, who has created his own alternate history and has no clue as to how the real world works (and we did cover his ignorance in geology, biology, evolution, economics, could you have guessed – the Bible, history and the entire scientific method) then ultimately, there is no way to have a meaningfull conversations. We could not even agree on the meaning of words, as he had some special meanings of his own, that he was adamant on keeping to. It was much like talking to a kid who has invented his own secret language in wich common words have special secret meanings and he thinks himself clever for being the only one who knows those special secret meanigs of words.

The final moment in any conversation by wich you can recognize an idiot, is when the other person starts to proclaim victory. An ignorant person is not necessarily an idiot, but there are idiots out there. If a person relates to a conversation as a competition and proclaims victories (based on who knows what nonsense, like in my example), well, that just tells you, that such a person is not a very mature individual and, that you are not actually even having a conversation. Rather just, that winning the competition is so much more important to that person, than trying to get to the bottom of the issue, that he/she is not even open to any suggestions you make. That of course explains why one is not getting through and every comment has to be re-explained as the other party renders what you said into a new strawman form and then argues against that. Even if the person does not openly express they feel they are in a competition rather than a conversation, when suddenly “nope” turns out to be a perfectly valid argument for them, you should know it is a competition and no longer has anything to do with having a discussion and contemplating the actual subject.

This is what I learned from that discussion. So, maybe it was not totally wasted on me.

 

 

Advertisements