the journey from theism to atheism
I am an ex-atheist, I have a working memory of what drove me there. anaivethinker
I was brought up in a very religious household. Although I must admit the variety of Christianity was nothing compared to the toxic type I learn more about every day here in Blogland. Like most people I speak to who were indoctrinated from an early age with some form of religious belief, the deconversion process was quite long, but I think comparatively not too painful.
Let me give a quick breakdown:
- A feeling of sadness and confusion about repulsive Bible verses, particularly with regards to women and homosexuals, initiated timid questioning. No satisfactory answers were forthcoming. Continued to go to church but squirmed through increasing feeling of oddness and discomfort. (2 years)
- Acknowledged to self that it was very possible the god God didn’t exist but not confident enough about it to share view with my family. Fairly depressed and numb about life. (2 years)
- Open to everyone that I was no longer practising Christian but still sympathetic to idea of religion generally. Agnostic and occasionally confused about life, dealing with residual pull of indoctrinated beliefs. Scared I could fall back into it through sheer comfort of familiar thought patterns, tried to avoid thinking about religion. (6 years)
- Completely comfortable with the idea that no gods exist and that religion is manmade. No longer flinch when someone says “Oh my god!!” but not antagonistic towards religion. (6 years)
- Increasingly irritated at what I perceive as nonsense spouted by religious people. (ongoing)
These journeys are all personal and particular to our circumstances. While I describe my upbringing as ‘very religious’ in terms of density of activities related to the household belief system, it wasn’t a guilt-inducing, fear-instilling and ritualistic brainwashing brand such as Catholicism or Fundamentalism. Now, anything along those lines, when applied at full force, I have observed can take a whole lot longer and have a much bigger impact on deconvertees. Also, I started the process in my late teens/ early 20s, so I didn’t have an adult-lived life to overturn, re-evaluate and despair over.
Now, I couldn’t care less when the I am charged with the notion that I was ‘never a proper Christian’. In fact, I love it. I wish it was true and I didn’t have all those wasted years of delusion and confusion. Unfortunately I’m too familiar with too many types of Christians who think every other type of Christian isn’t a proper Christian. It’s a comedy accusation and reveals more about the nature of the arrogant and deluded religious mind than anything else. So, I’m hesitant to suggest to a Christian who thinks they went through a deconversion at some point in their life that perhaps they never truly experienced atheism. After all, any number of swings and roundabouts when it comes to belief are possible.
What I would like to suggest, however, is that if you only experienced ‘atheism’ for one day, one year, or even five years, it’s perfectly possible that you were in a period of questioning, assuredly to the extent that you could deny the existence of your god, but perhaps not to the extent that you could truly feel released from the ingrained neural pathways of indoctrinated belief. Because, believe me, even from my relatively ‘light’ experience, it can take a long time to get there.
It’s hard for me to imagine a strictly religious Scottish household. I imagine the experience more akin to that of the “cultural Anglicans” of England: Birth, Marriage, Death rites, nothing really in-between… a convenient/known way to celebrate/handle major life events without all the other silliness.
LikeLike
Oh yeah, very light on the rituals. But attending every indoctrination event possible and strong theme of ‘we are Christian family’. There was no option of belief or attendance. You escaped Catholicism quite lightly, didn’t you? Did the guilt claws never sink in? I know so many lapsed Catholics with residual base superstition and guilt/fear issues.
LikeLike
I’m convinced the priests at my school were closet atheists. None of them took it seriously.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I wish I met such priests earlier in my life, I would be done writing my polemic against religion. Now it will take a bit longer
LikeLike
That’s a particularly Catholic phenomena. I saw an extraordinary poll a few years ago, I think it was in El Pais- It was a shocking statistic. Something to do with less than 30% of Spanish Catholics feeling ‘sure’ a god existed.
LikeLike
A poll in Ireland earlier this year came back with 10% of identified Catholics didn’t believe in god. You can’t write that stuff 🙂
LikeLike
“Also, I started the process in my late teens/ early 20s, so I didn’t have an adult-lived life to overturn, re-evaluate and despair over.”
You’re so very fortunate. Synaptic pruning can be excruciating if you’ve had 2,3 4 decades of neural networking — indoctrination. I think your post is quite fair with regard to Brandon.
Based on the comments I’ve read from him, I got the impression that he based his assumptions about atheism though his own behavior and perceptions of reality. He found atheism to be unimpressive, and I found it to be incredibly liberating, empowering, more ethical, and have never felt more alive.
You did a great job describing the stages of deconversion. Only a “true Christian” could do that.
LikeLike
But how long was he an ‘atheist’ for? I mean, he comes from the worst kind of Fundamentalist programming, doesn’t he? That must take decades to truly escape from. Maybe I’m confusing him with someone else, I haven’t followed his story closely enough. I got the impression he went through a questioning/numb stage and is trying to come back to a more humane interpretation. I just doubt he reached the other side then plunged back in …
LikeLike
Roughly 5 years. I wouldn’t say that I was a fundamentalist ever because I was too skeptical and cynical to be that enthused or holding an idea. It was when I went away to university that my real deconversion began. I started to hate the church because of the massive hypocrisy, anti-intellectualism, and so on. Then, I just let go and stopped thinking about it. That was kind of my version of atheism. I was closeted and didn’t want to tell me parents and in laws how much I hated their religion and thought it was false. And, worse, I was a bit nihilistic. I let go of my morality to some extent, partly as a protest, partly because no matter what anyone says, there is a difference between secular and nonsecular morality.
LikeLike
Thanks for clarifying, that is interesting. I went through a ‘stopped thinking about it’ phase for a long time too but I think I was more agnostic than atheist in those times. I thought some supernatural explanation for life was possible, but I also thought given the nature of human history – all the people who searched and all the insanely diverse conclusions they came to (regardless of intelligence) – that it was clearly a waste of time.
I’ve found a difference between secular and nonsecular morality too, but in very different way from you. I found it a complete relief to make decisions solely on what seemed most sensible, rather than any kind of pre-determined rules. But then I think most of the kind of morality rules that were drilled into me through childhood came with common sense rationales that stayed with me, so I didn’t have any dramatic changes in behaviour. Probably mainly just less judgemental of other people’s choices.
LikeLike
Since atheists as a group have a high turnover rate, you are probably missing a few steps.
LikeLike
Thanks dp. No idea what you mean.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Pure atheists, it is possible. They can be an ignorant bunch. Christian context atheists, I doubt many turn back after they have found greater understanding of the Bible. Once you know the plot holes, it’s tough to un-know them.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I doubt many go from fundamentalism to atheism back to fundamentalism. But there are other more adult options.
LikeLike
I actually would not be surprised if fundamentalists jumped back and forth, as they seem more prone to emotion than understanding.
As for more adult options, I am sure some might get back into the faith for the community aspect and hold a token level of belief (or silent disbelief). Community is a strength that religion has, though it can take away from the serving all of humanity aspect that Jesus is kind of all about.
Much of Christian belief seems to come from a standpoint of ignorance – one only has to look at the USA and all of the anti-humanity values that Christian groups promote as an example of this. Unbelievable hypocrisy to their own faith.
LikeLike
Biblical literalism is a very modern ideology, 19th and 20th century. It makes allot of noise in the English speaking world, not much elsewhere. If all you know is literalism then atheism is probably your only other option. By more adult options I’m referring to just accepting that the Bible is historically conditioned and is much of it was not written to be taken literally. It is a question of genera: a poem can be “true”, a history book can be “true” and a physics dissertation can be “true” but not all in the same way.
As for your assertion that Christianity is ignorance, there seems to be some sort of political disillusionment behind it. At this particular moment in US history Christianity is associated with the political right: in part the association is imaginary (eg: American Blacks are overwhelmingly Christian and overwhelmingly progressive), in part it is true. It may or may not be a good thing, who really knows? But that association was not always the case in the past (it dates from the 1980s), and history being what it is, it will not always be the case in the future.
Accusing someone with a differing opinion of ignorance is always problematic: ignorant by what standards? Of you and your like-minded friends? Of an American educational system which is an international disgrace?
Maybe the internet Bible-thumper isn’t very bright? Try picking up a book by a real theologian, even conservatives like Stanley Hauerwas, N.T. Wright or Hans Urs Von Balthasar and explain what is so ignorant about them.
LikeLike
I never said that Christianity is ignorance, I said much of it seems to come from ignorance. Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. The widespread right-wing American version of Christianity seems quite ignorant of of the concepts Jesus promotes.
But just as you demonstrated, taking words the wrong way isn’t difficult, even when it’s within a short paragraph or two. It’s no wonder so many people have such issue grasping the direction of Jesus’ lead when there are so many paragraphs in there to completely misconstrue.
LikeLike
Well said Violet and love the ‘breakdown’ points. I so know how that feels and I am also ongoing with no. 5. 😆
I just can’t imagine how one can go from atheist back to being a christian. Either you believe or you don’t, and ever since I realised that there is no ‘deity’ that’s ever going to answer my prayers and that this world is ‘everyone for themselves’, I never looked back. Too many questions and way too many stupid answers from people who think they are gods and don’t forget the most important: When you have lots of money to give, you’re important. If you don’t, you don’t mean a thing to them. Some great lessons learned and I am glad for the experiences, but never in my life will I ever believe in something that’s not there or wasn’t there in the first place. Just another money-making scheme. 😀
LikeLike
PS: Love your stunning photo of the hummingbird with the flowers. Amazing! 😀
LikeLiked by 1 person
“I just can’t imagine how one can go from atheist back to being a christian.”
I can’t either, that’s why I suspect he was more in a numb/agnostic period. I can understand going back from that point, because there are comforts associated with belief and it’s easy on the childhood indoctrinated brain. I suppose everyone’s experiences are so different, it’s difficult to generalise.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I suspected that as well and yes, I totally agree. I don’t judge anyone for their beliefs, as long as they don’t try and shove it down my throat, treat me like a ‘sinner’, or irritate me with their ‘Jesus is the Savior’, or ‘Jesus is King’ and all those ‘amen’ posts and expect me to comment on it, because I won’t. By the way, when I see posts like that, I always wonder : ‘What happened to their God?’
LikeLiked by 1 person
Amen.:)
LikeLike
Makagutu, think about the historical context the next time some “Christian” tells you that because you were Catholic you were never really a Christian. The whole basis of that theme among them seems to be jealousy since the RC and it’s Orthodox sisters were the only Christianity for over 1000 years. It helps them justify why they reject the original versions of Christianity so vehemently. And, like you, the many years of RC upbringing and education in very fine RC schools and universities all evaporated in very little time at all once I realized the ridiculousness of the whole storyline. Unlike so many here, I never became an atheist, but my understanding of the Divine changed so radically that perhaps that label fits anyway. I certainly don’t believe in “Bible God”, so no matter what else I may believe in, I guess in the eyes of some I’m an atheist as well. Love your writings!
LikeLiked by 1 person
I think I skipped several stages. My deconversion happened too fast in my face and I don’t remember any pain associated with it but always profound joy whenever I had a eureka moment.
I was brought up catholic, maybe not a true christian, as per Greg and left in my late 20s.
Great post
LikeLike
That’s really interesting. I wonder what the difference in circumstances is between those who have a ‘fast and easy’ deconversion and those who don’t. Your brain must be better at adapting. I think mine gets stuck in its ways!
LikeLiked by 1 person
My brain has got help from the library. I think books provided me with a soft landing.
Yours is an interesting story though
LikeLike
Yeah, I guess I never read any kind of atheist literature. Still haven’t beyond what I see here on WordPress. It was the slow boat …
LikeLike
I have read short polemics, letters, books on atheism. Read a bit of apologetics that always leave me bored. And wordpress has quite a lot of atheist material too and the occasional religionists trying to make their religion look sensible
LikeLike
Looking back on everything, actually, Catholics are asked to believe a lot less stuff than the modern “Christians” have to. For one thing, they don’t consider the Bible to be literally true and inerrant as is. I don’t think I’ve ever met a Catholic young earth creationist. In fact, dear Sister Denise who taught my freshman biology class in college (and who had 2 Phd’s, biology and geology) automatically gave anyone holding such a ridiculous idea an automatic F for the day if they tried to spout it.
The long run of this is that the weird things that Christians subscribe to are actually very few for the Catholics. Consequently, there’s less to get over. My own wake up moment came when I realized that the whole Jesus myth was just another Greco-Roman-demigod-with-a-divine-father -who-becomes-a-god-at-his-own-death just like Hercules or Dionysus. Dime a dozen.
Nothing particularly special about the story except that a large branch of his worshippers got the ear of one of the Emperors and became the state religion. After I realized that (in my teens) the rest just went by the wayside. No young earth or flood stories taken seriously, or any of that nonsense; they were never seen except allegorically anyway.
LikeLike
This is an extremely useful post and helps to deconstruct too many straw women. Thank you for sharing it. Is there a different story for someone raised atheist (such as Bertrand Russell) who converts to a theistic faith? That is not a story that I have often encountered. Again – – thank you for sharing this. It allows a measure of detente.
LikeLike
You might want to check out Francis Collins (link) He considered himself an atheist for most of his life, but working with terminally ill patients caused him to reconsider his views, reading C. S. Lewis, and then an “experience” hiking in the woods caused him to change his mind and become an evangelical Christian.
LikeLike
Thank you for reminding me about Collins. I’ve read two of his books and the first is likely due for re-reading.
LikeLike
I don’t know, after writing this, I’m more aware that everyone’s experience is quite distinct. I think the difference going either way is that being brought up a Christian you’re conditioned to believe in something quite specific that’s not in the physical world, and usually to accept stories and conclusions that make no sense (benevolent god that kills, wants animal sacrifices, can’t stand its own creation). For your brain to be formed from childhood accepting that this is fact can obviously cause some issues for snapping to reality as we see it.
So, going the other way, Victoria will share lots of stories of the dramatic, sudden conversions being down the brain issues, like here:
But you got me thinking, and I had a bit of a google, here’s someone who was an atheist all his life, didn’t appear to have a sudden conversion of any sort, no voices or obvious delusion, but by the end of his life did think that the evidence points to an intelligent creator:
http://www.strangenotions.com/flew/
LikeLike
I didn’t mean to send you on a wild google chase, but I appreciate your thoughtfulness and definitely appreciate the links. I’ve visited Victoria’s blog before and have always enjoyed it. If I’m not mistaken Sam Harris is trained as a neurobiologist as well.
As for Flew – – thank you. I’ll likely read his book. From the post I could see a front cover endorsement from Francis Collins of whom I was aware. (thanks to consoledreader above as well).
Why do I enjoy reading your blog? We don’t have to agree to learn from each other. You taught me something today and I hope you consider your time well spent. From the learner’s perspective – – it was.
LikeLike
No wild google chase at all, it was an interesting point and interesting find, for me at least. I can understand an atheist feeling comfortable with deism at some point, if only because our history shows us it’s a natural longing for us.
LikeLike
Thanks for telling us your story, Violet. It’s interesting how your story progressed in these stages. It really adds a human element to see how each stage affected you emotionally. I agree with this: “After all, any number of swings and roundabouts when it comes to belief are possible.” It just shows how dynamic and variable we are. It kind of makes things colorful and interesting being one of those things we call humans.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Do you not feel slightly irked that I’ve suggested you may not have been fully atheist? Or do you think it possible?
LikeLike
That’s a great question. . . better than great. I predicted that this would occur at some point when I started blogging. At first I was terrified about it. That’s why I would call myself an atheist/agnostic because I know I didn’t look exactly like this atheist community. Not because I’m trying to hide anything, but because it’s complicated. I might have self-identified more with agnosticism like you say about your “stopped thinking about it” phase. But, I thought the bible was hugely problematic and not worth my time. I remember arguing with my father about evolution and the immorality of the bible. Zero church attendance. I was cynical enough to think it was all a sham and real engaging, caring people just don’t go. These were just a herd of sheepish middle class Americans who only cared about their families, entertainment, football, and their dear salvation that required a scanning their card as they walked in the church door and scanning out when they leave. They didn’t care about the world, just blasting it with their ideas like bombing a terrorist. They didn’t care about the outsiders, just welcoming the conformists. Perhaps equally as bad, they were ignorant to the falsity and immorality in their revered text. So,I thought if this God exists, he is far different than how these Christians viewed him and if he stood for anything good, they failed on epic levels.
I know I’ve heard some argue that once you’ve been sufficiently exposed to a philosophical idea you either live as if it is true or as if it is false. (This is an idea espoused by one of your followers named Ignostic). I was living as if God did not exist and I had reasoned this all out. If I die and it turns out this God was real, I reasoned he would know my situation so well that he would be able to judge me fairly and have mercy. His bible and church had been infiltrated with lies and the selfish superficial American ego.
So, was I a capital-A Atheist? That depends on how you define it. Do I have to come out of the closet and start an atheist blog? Do I have to go through a predefined transition from agnosticism to atheism? Was I more of a theist struggling with doubt or was I an amorphous heterogenous complicated human who more or less didn’t believe in the Judeo-Christian deity and absolutely hated the world? Maybe a little bit of both depending on the day. Heterogeneity, variability, dynamic, and more than anything distrustful of everything.
Ultimately, I’m kind of resisting a definitive yes or no to the question of if I was a bona fide atheist. My journey was unique and when I started blogging I chose to self-identify as an ex-atheist because I had judged that I did fit into that category well enough. Sure, I’m not Christopher Hitchens and I didn’t turn into Billy Graham. I was more like an angry cynic functional atheist who was surprised to rediscover Jesus and who let myself drown in humility to see that maybe the world is not the problem. Maybe I’m the problem. And, I can start by doing what the church has difficulty with and with what I should find easier than them — just loving atheists. Because I know your concerns are valid and meaningful. I decided I need to treat everyone with full dignity even the ones I hated, the middle class ethnocentric careless anti-intellectual American Christian. Yes, even them. So, now I am free and it feels good. And, if someone wants to say I wasn’t a bona fide atheist, I’m OK with this.
LikeLike
Loving atheists? Come on, I wouldn’t even go that far! 😉
LikeLiked by 1 person
Hey Violet, Thank you for sharing this. I wanted to comment on something you posted here;
“…I am charged with the notion that I was ‘never a proper Christian’”
Many times when people tell you this it is due to their own fear of De-conversion. If they believe you were sincere in your beliefs then that means it could happen to them to.
As a race we do this with a lot of different subjects.
LikeLiked by 2 people