how to tell what the god god wants
sometimes God uses judgment to bring His people back and there have always been periods of renewal throughout history. With you, I pray that for a revival. Absent something like that, Gay marriage will be a reality everywhere, even in Texas. It is just a matter of time. (Jim on InsanityBytes)
I simply adore lurking around the odd conversations over at my best blogging buddy’s rabbit hole. The excerpt above gives a glimpse into the mind of a certain type of Christian, whose beliefs could be more helpfully expressed by:
1. I believe that an invisible creator deity shows his displeasure with his sentient creation by sending them death and /or destruction in the form of natural disasters and / or war.
2. I hope that this invisible creator deity will do something nasty (presumably along the lines of a geologically explicable natural disaster or a politically explicable man-made war) to the people in my society.
3. If there is a naturally explicable show of death or destruction in the USA, it will be obvious to all society that an invisible creator deity is telling us that two mutually consenting adults aren’t allowed to marry unless their genitals are different.
4. If I don’t see a nasty sign from my benevolent god that satisfies my bonkers superstitious religious beliefs in the near future, it’s obvious that even in Texas, gay marriage will become legal.
Does anyone else feel that human brains are developing at a depressingly sluggish rate?
developing or did you mean retrogressing?
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Yes, perhaps that would have been more accurate!
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LOL! In some pockets (Yes, southern American states, i’m looking at you) there appears to be a devolution going on. Did you know Tom thinks Global Warming is a liberal hoax/plot/conspiracy? I mean, he <actually believes that.
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Oh yes, very common belief among them. But I have an atheist family member who also believes that to some extent, so I’m immune to shock.
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Yes, you introduced your brother to me a while ago.
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Just reading Colorstorms comment to you. You’re right, but I didnt say that about the donkey. In fact, I only read that this morning. Here’s the passage:
Mark 11, Jesus Enters Jerusalem
11 Jesus and his disciples reached Bethphage and Bethany near the Mount of Olives. When they were getting close to Jerusalem, Jesus sent two of them on ahead. 2 He told them, “Go into the next village. As soon as you enter it, you will find a young donkey that has never been ridden. Untie the donkey and bring it here. 3 If anyone asks why you are doing that, say, ‘The Lord[a] needs it and will soon bring it back.’”
So, yes, Jesus “asked” for people to find him a donkey to fulfill a prophecy that was well known.
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I have to say, I don’t always agree with your line of argument against Christians, but on your post you totally trounce Brandon about what ‘original’ means and how nothing he’s rambling about fits the definition. I wondered why he was verging on rude with me, going on about intellectual garbage and things coming at a cost, but on reading the whole thread, he’s obviously furious he has no comeback against you and pursuing me in some hope of victory.
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I think he’s being rude to both of us. He’s quite a nasty character, isn’t he?
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I don’t think he’s nasty. But it’s quite amusing that his frustration and anger is always so thinly veiled. Imagine what he really wants to say! Poor guy.
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Remember Chris? He’s in a band, Dad the Frog, and they’re pretty damn good. You’re musical, so you know these things better than me, but have a listen. Big sound.
https://soundcloud.com/dadthefrog/invisible-man-demo
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Haha how did you find him? So pleased he survived the Humanity 777 curse. Will listen later, got baby stuff on…
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We’ve kept in contact. He’s a genius, and you should always keep genius close.
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I asked you about him ages ago and you had no news. We guessed the curse had worked. You’ve internet stalked him, haven’t you?
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You sure you’re thinking of me? Every few months or so he drops me a line.
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Oh maybe not. Perhaps it was my other Brazilian blogging buddy who enjoyed that blog …
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Ah, him 😉
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Hey, what do you mean you don’t always agree with my line? Example, please!
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I wondered how long it was going to take for that to hit home — 🙂
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No one has ever accused me of being too fast 😉
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Easy! Theism is natural. And I’m always happy to grant them their supernatural trump card. But unfortunately it doesn’t work for Brandon in this case …
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Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree here… But you will be pleased to know i have reversed my position entirely in this thing i’m writing. I’m arguing for it being not just natural, but inevitable… By wicked design 🙂
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Sounds more like it!
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(Yes, southern American states, i’m looking at you)
Hey, now….don’t judge us all by the loudest among us.
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I’m not judging you all… I liked your state, and especially Savannah 😉
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Oh, good! Whew! For a minute there I thought we were all in the barrel. j/k The southern states are full of climate change hoaxers, birthers, and generally unsound conspiracy theories.
Yes, the scenery is nice here. Savannah is awesome!
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You’re telling me. I vomited on a giant policeman there (on his shoes) and you know what he did? He carried me, and my mate, back to our van! What a guy, what a place! 🙂
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Yay, Violet’s posting again! Hope you and your family are well.
I’ll never forget the Sunday after hurricane Katrina hit. That was touted as God’s judgement on the vileness that is New Orleans.
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Hope things are well with you too Ruth. How’s that chat going with Greg? Please tell me it’s over! Or have you reached 6 million words?
It’s shocking that so many people are still so superstitious about natural disasters in this day and age ….
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I think he was planning on continuing it but that post got so many comments I stopped going to it because it took forever to load. I’ve forgotten where we even left it, to be honest.
It is shocking. Climate change is a hoax but God is in the business of wiping out entire cities to exact
revengejudgement? Smh…LikeLike
What a shame! I thought you’d moved the conversation over to your place. So he didn’t get to prove how the god God exists with 2+2=4 …
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“Does anyone else feel that human brains are developing at a depressingly sluggish rate?”
Unfortunately, some; fortunately, not all.
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But in the general population with access to even just a few years of education we really should have got past this brand of silliness.
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It makes God seem rather neurotic to me-
though I was delighted last year that the Polar Vortex affected Georgia (where there was no equal marriage) worse than New England, where there was. Had God made a mistake? If God floods because of gays, why Somerset but not Brighton?
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Excellent points! I wonder what the sinful folks of Georgia have been up to. Pride, no doubt. Brighton will get what it deserves.
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I also don’t understand why God would give us free will so we could either worship Him (this god’s a him, definitely) or be debauched and depraved and homosexual and have abortions or whatever, but then smite us. What good is free will when he smites and kills us for disobeying?
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The Bible never says God gave man free will, the Bible says everyone has the freedom to plan, but it is God that determines everyone’s steps, God makes everyone do what they do for His purpose, the so-called Christian belief that says, God gave man free will, is false. Proverbs 16:9 The mind of man plans his way, but God determines his steps. Proverbs 20:24 Man’s steps are of God, how then can a man understand his own way. Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we [who are born of the Spirit] have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him [God] who works all things after the counsel of His own will.
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Then that explains the Garden of Eden, the fruit from the tree, Cain and Able, the ethnic cleansing of the Levant by the Israelites, EVERYthing – when humans screw up, it’s all their god’s fault! Case closed! Can we have tea and those little cakes now?
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God is the Creator, therefore God can do whatever He wants with his creation, the Creator makes the choice in what happens, not the creation, nothing is God’s fault, the Creator has the final say, yes, God made all that happen for His purpose, man has no say in what happens in life, if man did, then man would be God, free will is lie
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Gods are lies, told by fools, to fools.
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If that’s what you believe, I respect that, a person led by the Spirit will NEVER force their beliefs on anyone.
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Here you go, SkyBoy:
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up to this point, I thought you didn’t believe what you wrote but am saddened you think might makes right.
In human interactions we tend to take care of our productions lest they are hurt, but it seems the god you believe in doesn’t even know this simple thing.
you have strange beliefs
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LOL! I can say the same thing about you, but I don’t shove my beliefs on others, as you do !
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which belief did i try to shove down your throat or any opening for that matter?
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i have read my comments on this thread, they appear three times. In which of them do I force my belief on anyone?
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You said that I have strange beliefs, that for you to say, keep your judgments to yourself
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haha! so that is what you took offence with.
sorry, your beliefs are strange and you can take that to the bank. I don’t really care
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I don’t take of fence anything you day, jerk
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you know calling me a jerk doesn’t make me one. but you are an insufferable idiot.
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LOL!!!
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Mak, it would certainly go far toward establishing his credibility if he would learn to spell – you’re a Kenyan, and as such, Luo was your first language, followed by Swahili, and only then did you learn English as a third language, yet you have no trouble spelling, “offence.”
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Hahahaha. Maybe he doesn’t know where Kenya is on the world map, asking him all that would be too much to ask. He is fine with his bible knowledge
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LOL! I take of fence anything you say, jerk, by the way I don’t care if you believe what I believe
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That’s not for you to say, you believe what you believe, and I believe what I believe, my comments are to show people what the Bible says, so that they will see how many people that claim to be Christian, speak false
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you claim that I should not judge and in the next statement claim to know others speak false. what a silly person you are. at least try to be consistent
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If you someone claims to be Christian and says the opposite of what the Bible says, surely speaks false, but I can see that you don’t care about the truth, all you want to do is cause trouble
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between you and me, you started the insults. You think you got a monopoly on them maybe.
I don’t care what a person believes, they can believe whatever dumb idea they find fit. My only condition is they keep it to themselves. And what truth do you mean? that the bible is believable?
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Anyone that claims to be Christian that says something opposite of what the Bible says, speaks false, that’s the truth that I am talking about
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“Anyone that claims to be Christian that says something opposite of what the Bible says, speaks false”
Let’s take a closer look at that. The Ten Commandments tell us, “Thou shalt not kill,” yet Exodus 22:18 tells us, “Thou shalt not suffer (allow) a witch to live.” So if a Christian says we shouldn’t kill, he speaks falsely, as without killing, how are we ever to rid ourselves of those pesky witches? Yet the Christian who advises us to kill witches speaks falsely, because the Commandments insist that we not kill.
Basically, then, you are simply saying that no one can ever obey the rules of the Bible, because many of them contradict each other – right? Glad you cleared that up for us.
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The word “kill” actually means “murder”, thou shall not murder is the correct translation 🙂
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“Murder” is intentional unjustified homicide, a Christian will not commit murder
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If I told you I am Christian and then I say, God gave man free will, and the Bible says the opposite, would you believe I am Christian, I sure hope not
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it makes little difference what one christian or religious person believes, in fact for that matter, anyone’s beliefs. Keep them to yourself.
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I’m not pushing my beliefs you, so there is no reason to say that to me, you commented on what I said, I didn’t comment on what you said, therefore you are the instigator, not me
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am tired of trying to make sense of your comments. do whatever it is that rocks your boat. I have had enough
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Good, I have no time for people like you, see ya
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No, don’t see you!
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“See ya” means “goodbye” here in the US 🙂
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I know
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I am typing from a tablet and sometimes words get left out or misspelled that’s why some of my comments are difficult to read, I apologize for that
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It definitely makes a difference, but you clearly don’t care about that truth 🙂
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a week or so ago a muslim cleric said the world is static and the sun goes round it. How does this belief affect me? I don’t care what he believes. What I care for is that he doesn’t expect me to believe it.
You can believe the bible has some truth and correct those who think misrepresent it, it does not stop being a book of stories for men by men to me. That is the point am trying to make and I hope you can understand that
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Look, I’m not trying to make you believe what I believe, but when someone says that the Bible says God gave man free will, that’s not true, that was my whole point of my comment, that you commented on, the Christian teaching that says God gave man free will, is false
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This will be my last response.
My comment was on your assertion that because god creates it can chose what to do with what it has created. I said if a person you knew did that to a sentient being you would most likely find it abhorrent, that god is excused from it is to make might right which is absurd. Instead of responding to that, you chose to insult me
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My belief has nothing to do with you so why should you care? You were just looking to cause trouble, if someone tells me something that is not true, I surely would not believe the person, the Bible is a Christian book, therefore a Christian would never say the opposite of what the Bible says, that means anyone that claims to be Christian that says something opposite of what the Bible says, is not led by the Spirit, those who are not led by the Spirit are NOT Christian, that is the whole point of my comment, that you commented on
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That was fun! 🙂
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Hahaha. V sorry I went on rampage on your site
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“…the Christian teaching that says God gave man free will, is false” – I don’t know how you could be clearer than that, which means that everything humans do, is the fault of your god, and therefore there is no need for a Savior to “cleanse” us of our “sins,” for without free will, there can BE no sin.
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So, DO we have free will? If so, then Pharaoh was blameless when your god took his away by hardening hie heart. Do we NOT have free will? If not, then we’re all blameless for everything we do.
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God gives everyone the drive to do what they do, God determines the steps of man, that’s what the Bible says, and since I am Christian, I believe that 🙂
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Acts 4:27-28 makes it very clear that God makes everyone do what they for His purpose. Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Yeshua, whom thou [God] hast anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the nations, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, for to do whatever thy hand and thy purpose predestined to happen.
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In regards to Pharoah, here is what Romans 9:13-24 says, that will answer your question about free will. Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
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It was to get those of us who are leaving the church to fall to our knees and repent!
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Clare on this we agre
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It is a damn nuisance to reckon what the hell does this god God want. I mean, if I believed such a god actually existed, how should I be able to find out what is the will of this entity, when some of the devouted ritual experts affirm us, that the big floods of Danube in Serbia are a result of this god God gettin upset about the Eurovision song contest victory by an Austian. How bad aim does this particular god have?!!! Why are the poor Serbs being punished for the victory of an Austrian?
And what the hell is this god punishing the Serbs for a Eurovision song contest, when the same god sat idly by when the Serbs were engaging in ethnic cleansing? But I suppose I can not judge a god, because the creator is so much mightier than I am and as this god alledgedly is my creator, that means I somehow mysteriously am the property of this said god. And as the ultimate moral arbitrator, and authority this god God can very well define homosexuality as immoral and genoside a fine enterprice – Like it does in the Bible (wich is not such a news flash to anyone who has actually read the damn book).
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“…the same god sat idly by when the Serbs were engaging in ethnic cleansing?” – Are you kidding, Rautakyy? Since the Canaanite conquest, and before that, The Flood, he holds the patent on ethnic cleansing! It’s his trademark!
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Interesting, I hadn’t heard about the god God’s interest in the Eurovision contest. It’s amazing what attracts his attention and what he ignores. 🙂
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Yes, well it was this Serbian high pathriarch – or some title like that – of the Orthodox church (an actual ritual expert of the god “God” in comparrison to some random “Christian” blogists) who explained the floods of the Danube last year by the god God being upset about the Eurovision song contest victory going to the Austrian singer Conchita Wurst.
Now, if anybody should know what god God wants it just has to be him, right? “Orthodox” does refer to being right about religion and all. So, who the hell is anybody else judging the morals, or aim of this god God, if not this particular ritual expert? I have been explained to, that I have no means to even begin to evaluate something, that is supposedly so much beyond me, as the creator of all, and the book this creator alledgedly (though not confirmed by really anything) inspired as the sole means to communicate with humanity has been interpreted over and over by far much cleverer people than I am in so many mutually contradicting manners, that I am left with only two options, if I ever were to take this particular god God for real, wich are basicly either, that I submit to the authority of some dude who has a proper title of expertise on what the particular god ever might want, or I’ll go on to second guess a bunch of these experts on the field and make up myself what the god God might want according to the ancient and incoherent scriblings of the ignorant people who acted as the stooges for this god God while writing the alledged holy scriptures. In any case, I am required to second guess a lot of these “experts” on what god God wants, because, even if I choose one, there are a dozen who disagree with that one, as they can not agree on the colour of shite…
What is clear, is that no matter what the different ritual experts (not to mention some random blogists claiming to be Christians) ever claim about the benevolence of this particular god God, is that as archaeopteryx1 said, in the alledged holy book all sorts of genosides are indeed sanctioned by this god God and ethnic cleansing seems like a good idea according to the alledgedly direct information from said god. Creepy, but as I said I have no right to judge somebody who owns me as my alledged creator. Or do I?
Still, I simply can not fathom how the Serbs are in any particular responsibility for the Eurovision song contest winner, when such matter are not by far decided by the Serbs alone. But if I ever were to question the obviously sincere beliefs of this Orthodox priest, and if somebody ever presented evidence for me to be convinced, that there actually is this particular god, that is – as claimed – also interrested in human beliefs, then that would inevitably lead me to suspect the alledged benevolence, because what sort of an all-mighty entity would let the poor patriarch believe such nonsense about itself?
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I think this is a great example of not really hearing what was being said. Since I am the person you quoted, I think I can bring some clarity to my comments:
“1. I believe that an invisible creator deity shows his displeasure with his sentient creation by sending them death and /or destruction in the form of natural disasters and / or war”
I do believe that the God depicted in the Bible has done this in the past. If he is a real being, then He could presumably do it in the future. I would have no idea if He was acting in this way.
“2. I hope that this invisible creator deity will do something nasty (presumably along the lines of a geologically explicable natural disaster or a politically explicable man-made war) to the people in my society.”
Absolutely not true. I don’t want that at all. Just because I believe that he could do something like that, doesn’t mean that I long for it to happen! Far from it.
“3. If there is a naturally explicable show of death or destruction in the USA, it will be obvious to all society that an invisible creator deity is telling us that two mutually consenting adults aren’t allowed to marry unless their genitals are different.”
I don’t agree with that either. In fact I reject that statement.
4. If I don’t see a nasty sign from my benevolent god that satisfies my bonkers superstitious religious beliefs in the near future, it’s obvious that even in Texas, gay marriage will become legal.
Again, I don’t agree with that statement at all.
So you got 25% of it right!
What I was saying, and if you read all my comments in context your would have picked this up, is that the battle for Gay marriage is over. The church had it’s opportunity to argue against it and the culture has rejected their view. It is simply a matter of time. Even Texas, will legalize it. So quit crying about it and move on to issues that are more significant.
I hope that helps clarify my thoughts
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What I’ve often had occasion to say to my children, I will also say to your god, whose behavior betrays an all too similar mentality – Use your words, not your hands!
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The Bible NEVER says that the church is supposed to judge anything that the world does, but the Bible does say that the church is supposed to judge anyone that claims to be Christian that practices sin and remove the person from the church, those that claim to be Christian that fight anything that the world does, are NOT led by the Holy Spirit, God is the judge of the world, not the church.
A person led by the Holy Spirit will NEVER fight against same sex marriage, fornication, abortion, or anything else that the world does, if you want to judge someone start with those who claim to be Christian that molest children and remove them from the church!
1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without [not Christian]? do not ye judge them that are within [the church]?
5:13 But them that are without [not Christian] God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
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Why would Paul say this, when without free will, the people in that list are blameless – they’re all merely acting according to their god’s plan! Dancing on his puppet strings!
Paul was one sick puppy —
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A person is a slave to sin, or a slave to God, that’s what Roman 6 says. Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that you [who are born of the Spirit] were the slaves of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, you became the slaves of righteousness. Philippians 2:13 For it is God [by the Holy Spirit] which works in you [who are born of the Spirit] both to will and to do of the good pleasure [not practice sin].
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Hi Jim, thanks very much for popping by to correct my mistaken assumptions about your comment. I still don’t understand what you mean by “sometimes God uses judgment to bring His people back”. Can you give me some examples of when that happened and what you believe he did?
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Hi Violet,
The comment you reacted to was a response to this comment from another writer:
“I guess I’m still of the mindset that God will have His way. I think of Judah a generation before they were taken into exile by the Babylonians. Out of seemingly nowhere came a boy king named Josiah who instituted a great revival. I think we should pray for just such a movement in our land. And I think we should pray for God’s mercy. It might be that, like He did with the Assyrians Jonah preached to, He will relent and bring us to repentance. James says we don’t have because we don’t ask. May our generation not be guilty of not asking.”
Here is my full comment to that comment:
“When I look around at the world, I don’t see God having His way at all. At least not with us! If you look at the Great Commandments as an expression of what how He desires we live, I think we would have to give ourselves a D- (and that’s grading on a big curve!) He wants us to love each other, we are absolute failures at that. He wants us to love Him, and we could care less about that.
It is true that God will have the final word, so in that sense I think you have it right. Of course, sometimes God uses judgment to bring His people back and there have always been periods of renewal throughout history. With you, I pray that for a revival. Absent something like that, Gay marriage will be a reality everywhere, even in Texas. It is just a matter of time.”
If you look at the Old Testament Bible as a historical record of the Jewish nation and her interaction with their God, you can’t help but notice that their God sent them into exile because they had forsaken loyalty to him. The impact of this resulted in the people eventually returning to God. Their are lots of things like that.
Granted, that doesn’t make it true and we don’t have to go back and forth over whether or not that actually happened. But, that is what I was referring to.
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I couldn’t reply to the comment below mine, so I shall reply here if I may.
Naturally the way I phrased things wouldn’t be agreeable. My embellishment aside, I think my point still stands. Unless I’m mistaken, wouldn’t it be fair to say that the comment that sparked yours asserted that Christians should pray for a revival?
Also, would it be fair to say that your comment was a response that the U.S. probably isn’t devout enough to facilitate a revival, and that God also uses judgment in addition to serendipitous people to facilitate spiritual revival?
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Naturally the way I phrased things wouldn’t be agreeable.
Naturally:)
“My embellishment aside, I think my point still stands. Unless I’m mistaken, wouldn’t it be fair to say that the comment that sparked yours asserted that Christians should pray for a revival?”
I did understand what you were saying. To be fair, it seemed like you were arguing with someone else’s words, not mine. But, I would answer yes to this question.
“Also, would it be fair to say that your comment was a response that the U.S. probably isn’t devout enough to facilitate a revival…”
No. While I would agree the Christian church is not doing a very good job of following the teachings of Christ, it could if it wanted to, and doesn’t need God to do anything to make that happen.
“…and that God also uses judgment to facilitate spiritual revival?”
Are you talking about this response:
“Of course, sometimes God uses judgment to bring His people back and there have always been periods of renewal throughout history.”?
If so, then I would say that comment stands. The god depicted in the Bible sometimes did use judgment to bring his chosen people, the Jewish nation back to him. In addition and separate to that idea, there have always been periods of renewal throughout history. In other words, renewal happens all the time without god judging anything.
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Thanks for your response!
In the future, if you could use brackets to denote changes in quoted material, I’d be grateful. It helps me figure out which points are being responded to. I’ll number my points to facilitate discussion.
1. I recognize that you’re making a distinction between God’s judgment and God doing revivals. Your point about the church is somewhat confusing, since the original comment didn’t mention churches being responsible, and your comment didn’t mention it either. Still, I don’t think that it changes the points I made below.
2. My first point below would still stand. The OT God’s judgments were frequently harsh, including wiping out humanity for its iniquity and sending plagues to Egypt. That being said, I’ve yet to read a verse in the OT where God actually did something nice to judge a nation that wasn’t keeping his covenants.
3. My second point below would still stand (except the smiting part; I was being extremely cheeky). There does seem to be a link that you’re suggesting between revivals and rejecting same-sex marriage: “Absent something like that [a revival], Gay marriage will be a reality everywhere, even in Texas.” So, if there’s a revival, there’s no gay people getting married. I just listed out some of the specific rights they won’t get to enjoy.
4. My third point below depends on whether or not you think homosexual relationships or homosexual coitus is a sin. It also depends on whether you think that preaching to them can get them to repent of their lusts for flesh of same-sex people. If the answer is yes to both, then my third point would still stand.
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“In the future, if you could use brackets to denote changes in quoted material, I’d be grateful. It helps me figure out which points are being responded to. I’ll number my points to facilitate discussion.”
If I knew then, what I know now, I would have done that exact thing.
“1. I recognize that you’re making a distinction between God’s judgment and God doing revivals. Your point about the church is somewhat confusing, since the original comment didn’t mention churches being responsible, and your comment didn’t mention it either. Still, I don’t think that it changes the points I made below. “
Go back and read the actual post and all the comments and my comments, and I think it makes more sense.
“2. My first point below would still stand. The OT God’s judgments were frequently harsh, including wiping out humanity for its iniquity and sending plagues to Egypt. That being said, I’ve yet to read a verse in the OT where God actually did something nice to judge a nation that wasn’t keeping his covenants.”
Would you consider him sending Jonah to Nineveh to warn them that if they did not repent, He would send judgment as a nice thing? One could make a very strong case that sending Jesus to die for the sins of the world was nice. I know you don’t accept or believe those things, so we don’t have to go back and forth about it. I am just saying that there is stuff like that in the text of the bible.
3. My second point below would still stand (except the smiting part; I was being extremely cheeky). There does seem to be a link that you’re suggesting between revivals and rejecting same-sex marriage: “Absent something like that [a revival], Gay marriage will be a reality everywhere, even in Texas.” So, if there’s a revival, there’s no gay people getting married. I just listed out some of the specific rights they won’t get to enjoy.
I see what you are saying and it does make sense. That wasn’t the point I was trying to make.
“4. My third point below depends on whether or not you think homosexual relationships or homosexual coitus is a sin.”
I do believe that the Bible teaches that there are right and wrong ways to live. Homosexuality is one of those things that the Bible speaks against. To argue that it doesn’t, borders on the ridiculous IMO. That being said, I don’t think gay men and women should be treated any different that straight people. I think they should be able to live their lives any way they want to. We all need to live our lives in such a way that when we get to the end of it we can look back with great memories and little regrets.
I think changing the marriage tradition is a big deal. We have 2000 years of history with it as being a man-woman thing. Altering the definition deserved an intense cultural debate. We certainly had it, and I am glad we did. In my opinion gay marriage won the debate. It is only a matter of time before it becomes a reality everywhere in the US, even in Texas.
“It also depends on whether you think that preaching to them can get them to repent of their lusts for flesh of same-sex people.”
I must admit, I’m an agnostic on this one. I don’t know if it is possible.
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Actually, the points you made below the quote are fairly accurate with regards to what some Christians will say in private. That being said, my own take on the meaning of the quote is this:
1. Sometimes God will actually get off his ass to do something big just to get our attention. This can either happen through terror, death, plagues, animal infestations, or some other really obvious deity act. No, it doesn’t mean God will actually cure bone cancer in all children.
2. However, God might smite me in the process, so I hope that we’ll just have a revival where we will all “agree” that Christianity is best, and we can deny gay people the right to own property jointly, make medical decisions for each other in emergency situations, and pass ownership to the surviving spouse at death.
3. God can always choose to just say, “Meh.” In that case, we’re stuck with sinful people being able to be happy with their sin. They’ll be deluded and burn in hell, and it’s because we weren’t kind enough to be jerks to them in this life.
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Yes, I think that one works even better! But Jim has popped by to clarify that’s not what he meant. In fact, I’m not even sure he’s a Christian, which makes the whole statement even odder.
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That is an interesting twist on my words. I wouldn’t agree with that take. I am not trying to start an argument with anyone and simply wanted to let Violet? know she mis-characterized my words.
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Hi Jim, I’d love to get your comments on my latest post about exorcisms. I’m confused about what the general Christian outlook is towards this and I know you’re not reluctant to tackled difficult issues like this:
I’ll be sending the same message to other Christians I think could add the conversation here, because I think it’s very serious issue that needs careful consideration and more input.
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Good grief! The nutters are running the asylum. Violet, where do you find them? Not you , Arch … don’t panic.
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Are you referring to the bornfromabove comments? He’s great, the antidote to Tiribulus that really got under his skin. Tirib was pontificating about his (the only) correct interpretation of the Bible, and bornfromabove came along with his own personal interpretation which involved him actually giving up all his possessions and patiently explaining to Tirib why he’s wrong. I enjoyed it anyway. 🙂
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It’s like reading Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor in a theological version of Hear No Evil, See No Evil.
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