christians warp the bible: gay marriage
It seems that a lot of Christians believe their god God would have a problem with gay marriage. Oddly enough, this bizarre interpretation of the book that encourages love and faithfulness is particularly popular in countries with a high level of remarriage sin.
So what does the Bible say about relationships?
The Bible condemns all forms of promiscuity – both heterosexual and homosexual.
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. (Hebrews 13:4)
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery. (Matthew 19:9)
The Bible never mentions long-term, committed homosexual relationships, because the people of the day could not conceive of such a thing. In the same way, the Bible doesn’t mention:
- abortion (unless you count when the god God commands his people to rip open the bellies of pregnant women in Hosea 13:16, and when the god God aborts a pregnancy if a woman is found to be unfaithful to her husband in Numbers 5:11-31)
- artificial insemination (unless you count when men are allowed to get their servants pregnant instead of their wives in Genesis 16:1-4).
Because of this glaring omission from the Bible, Christians have to use logic. Let’s look at gay marriage logically:
1. Two consenting adults love each other and want to commit to spending their lives together. If you were in love with someone, they were in love with you and neither of you were committed to another relationship, would you think any benevolent creator deity had planned for you both to spend your lives separately?
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” (Galatians 5:14)
2. Christians often quote that their god claimed to create man and woman for each other. But then Jesus says it’s alright for some people to stay single, so clearly life is more complex than one small soundbite.
Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” (Matthew 19:11-12)
3. The Bible is full of admonishments not to judge others. And surely in an area where there is no clear guide and where there are no harmful outcomes, it would be wise to at least keep an open mind.
But your job is to obey the law, not to judge whether it applies to you. God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy. So what right do you have to judge your neighbor? (James 4:11-12)
4. When Christians can accept the obvious and ongoing sin of so many of their flock living in a state of remarriage, they must accept the unknown (and probably not sinful) state of gay marriage.
On the final and biblical analysis, why do so many Christians think they are in a position to condemn gay marriage?
Some say the “Eunuchs who have been born that way” are gay men. Being born without testicles is an extremely rare condition.
The bit translated “men who have sex with men” means enslaved rent-boys and the men who have sex with them. As usual, the actual Greek condemns male-male relationships which would be immoral whether hetero or not.
LikeLike
Yes, I’d hoped that’s what I’d conveyed in the post. Did you see I had an argument with that woman from one of your posts? She ignored all my points and just kept saying the same brain-washed nonsense over and over. They are a mindless lot.
LikeLike
She had previously done the same to me. What would you lose? “My fellowship with God”. If she ever saw a gay couple and did not immediately feel disgust…
The man I post on at midnight claims that he is commanded by God to point out others’ sins. So he goes around hating, and this is the only possible way to show Love. The liberal “Christians” will go to Hell and drag everyone else they meet there too.
LikeLike
Oh, another charmer!
LikeLike
This link will work after midnight BST. His Jesus quote to justify US gun culture is breathtaking.
LikeLike
I look forward to it! Probably won’t get a chance to be on the computer for the next couple of days, so if I happen to forget, please remind me!
LikeLike
That guy is clearly not led by the Holy Spirit, the New Testament makes it very clear that God is the judge of the world (those who are not born of the Spirit), & the church is supposed to judge anyone that claims to be Christian that practices sin & remove them from the church, that guy is not Christian, no one led by the Holy Spirit would ever do the opposite of what 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 says.
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister, but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
LikeLike
There is no point in engaging with you. You say nothing of value, at great length.
LikeLike
LOL !
LikeLike
I don’t think the issue is someone being gay, if someone is gay & he or she does not practice sin, then he or she is not disobeying God, those who claim to be Christian that practice sin will not inherit the kingdom of God, a straight person that claims to be Christian that practices fornication is living in sin, & a gay person that claims to be Christian that practices homosexuality is living in sin, both people will not inherit the kingdom of God.
LikeLike
Reblogged this on oogenhand and commented:
The usual charges.
LikeLike
Why would a god, IB, who created an entire Universe, care what a group of hairless apes, living on an unspectacular planet, orbiting an unremarkable galaxy, care what they do with their genitals?
LikeLike
True. But demography gets lopsided if people do not reproduce enough while too few people die,
LikeLike
“When Christians can accept the obvious and ongoing sin of so many of their flock living in a state of remarriage, they must accept the unknown (and probably not sinful) state of gay marriage.”
Wrong Violet, because it is ALL sin. Sin is not graded on a curve here. A wrong is a wrong is a wrong. The fact that people engage in premarital sex or divorce does not than justify gay marriage. There are also numerous scriptures that tell us that marriage is to be a sacred spiritual union between a man and woman. The very relationship between Christ and His church is one of a bride and groom. The language of adultery so often used in the bible signifies a violation of a covenant, a marital contract so to speak, even when the word “adultery” is used metaphorically, in the form of a parable.
LikeLike
Fabulous. I suppose you understand you’re going to hell because you’re not a Catholic. You’re not just a Protestant sinner, you’re a disgusting heathen (if we go by tradition.) At one point or another people like you were killed for being the heathens you are.
LikeLike
Pink, I think they have protestant hell and heaven.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Question, Mak – just me and you – has this become an addiction?
LikeLike
I have only a single addiction, laughing. Is that what you are referring to?
You know I have this guy who told me am writing kinda too much about religion that I should get another hobby
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dave Allen once told this joke
A fellow dies and goes to heaven. St Peter lets him through the pearly gates and he wanders round playing his harp and chatting to people. There are all sorts of people there, white, brown, yellow, women, men, young, old.
He is free to wander everywhere it seems
But on one side there is a high wall. Too high to see over. It puzzles him so he asks St Peter what’s going on, why is there a wall?
St. Peter says: On the other side of the wall are the Catholics, they think they’re the only ones here.
LikeLiked by 4 people
Haha Peter, you are on a roll.
Is anyone going to heaven though?
LikeLike
Genius, and so fabulously true. The thing is, it applies to every single exclusivist religionist ideology. 😀
LikeLike
And btw, undereducated idiot- the language of adultery in the bible is something people like you couldn’t possibly understand.
Let me explain, adultery at the time was defined as a crime of a man against another man (a crime of property theft). That means that a man having sex with a prostitute/free woman DID NOT constitute adultery. Adultery was defined as a man ‘using’ a woman that belonged to another man i.e. wife or daughter.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I’m neither a heathen nor an uneducated idiot, Pink, but you inability to act like a human being is duly noted.
Today rather than being property of husbands, fathers, women are property of the state. Crimes against us are still not really crimes against us at all, they are now crimes against the state. Women have simply traded one form of authority for another, and now the secularists such as yourself demean and disrespect us with a fervor that rivals that of the religious boogeymen you have created in your own imagination.
LikeLike
The fact that you believe you need to have your morality dictated to you by a frakking book is simply the most imbecilic thing imaginable.
You might not be an uneducated idiot but you sure as hell are an indoctrinated one.
Did you check the Karma Sutra before you had oral sex or read up on what Doctor Spock had to say before you decided to have kids?
Perhaps, then, in your infinite wisdom, IB you would like to enlighten us as to what went on for the thousands upon thousands of years prior the bible being put together?
LikeLike
If you ask Diana that question she says the earth was nothing but darkness and sin before. Her worldview, much like Insanity’s I believe, is that there was nothing before: no empires, no law, no architecture, no education, no technology, no love, no poetry, no literature… Strange, strange belief.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Who the hell is Dr. Spock? Are you stuck on your Star Wars kick still, Ark? I’m thinking you might mean Dr. Sears…the dude who did the attachment parenting thing.
LikeLike
There was something on the news about Dr Spock a couple of months ago because he died. And I was very confused too, having never heard of him and wondering what childcare books had to do with Star Trek. He wrote a child rearing book in the 1960s that was hugely influential and sold millions around the world. He was one of the first popular experts to move away from thinking children should be ignored and punished into submission, but that they should be treated like humans. But he was also a liberal and anti-Vietnam. He became very unpopular in some sections of American society and I expect has been erased from your history books!
LikeLike
Thanks for the info Violet. I thought for sure Ark was screwing up his words, but wouldn’t you know, he knew what he was talking about. Imagine! 😉
LikeLike
I agree, a most unusual occurrence!
LikeLike
Could be an age thing. I knew about him too, although it was easy to get liberal childcare and pointy ears confused. My parents didn’t like the naughty progressive doctor (hence I knew about him) but my dad liked pointy ears. Back in the Dark Ages, he was pretty much a household name, and no, my parents weren’t middle class Guardian readers, so if they’d heard of him in hicksville Yorkshire, he was famous.
LikeLike
From the piece I saw of him on TV the other month he seemed like an interesting character. Apparently the conservatives blamed him for the all the hippy stuff in the 1960s because the kids had been ‘spoiled’ with his parenting techniques that didn’t involve violence and neglect.
LikeLike
There actually is a place in the States called Hicksville! 🙂
LikeLike
LikeLiked by 2 people
Only one?
LikeLike
Your last sentence is a fabulous question.
LikeLike
(That was @Ark.)
LikeLike
Darling,
Idiot because you evidently still don’t understand how the meaning of adulterium in ancient times invalidates your initial comment.
And heathen (to Catholics) because you’re not a Catholic.
See how easy that is? You’re also an infidel to Muslims. You’re also not one of the ‘children of Israel’-
So when are you going to start obeying the gods of other religions so you can stop being a heathen?
LikeLike
“So when are you going to start obeying the gods of other religions so you can stop being a heathen?”
You see, this is a point well made, and might have been an interesting discussion. But your haughty approach, dripping in sarcastic disdain just closes it down. You could be quite a good blogger if you could only control your arrogance. 😀
LikeLike
Fabulous advice- if only being a ‘good blogger’ was my objective 😉
LikeLike
Simply a good looking blogger, hey Pink?
😉
LikeLiked by 1 person
That was too funny. Nice one. Even for the bad twin.
LikeLike
Question, IB – why would a god, who created an entire universe, care what a bunch of naked apes, on an unspectacular planet, circling an unremarkable galaxy, do with their genitals?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Add the S to the IB and it will all make sense.
LikeLike
In the Old Testament, adutery is clearly defined as a man single or married who has sex with another man’s wife, in the NT, adultery in regards to marriage, is a man who covets another man,’s wife. If a man has sex with another man’s daughter who is not married, that is fornication, not adultery.
Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Matt 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman [another man’s wife] to desire [to covet] her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
LikeLike
Ummm… do I have to repeat the meaning of adulterium in biblical times?
The ‘definition’ is what I’ve already explained, idiot number 2. All you have to do is research the laws of the period.
I know it’s terribly complicated for some people to understand but once upon a time the word salary referred to the payment Roman soldiers received in salt, hence salarium. Today salary means something else, as does adultery.
LikeLike
Please share your source of your definition, & my name is not idiot number 2, you asshole, my name is Mark
LikeLike
Mark,
You see, I didn’t share with you some sort of great scientific discovery that I made in the kitchen of my trailer- I simply stated a fact that’s rather obvious to anyone at all who has any knowledge of the history of law in the Roman Empire. If you’re genuinely interested start with the Lex Julia (around 17 BC) and then work your way up to Constantine as that’s when Christianity really became the law of the land.
LikeLike
Pink, Christianity should never be the law of the land, the Messiah did not die for everyone, therefore Christianity should never be forced on anyone, Constantine was wrong to make Christianity the law of the land, no one led by the Holy Spirit would ever do that, a Christian is someone that is led by the Holy Spirit, many people claim & have claimed to be Christian, but they were never led by the Holy Spirit, which means that they are not Christian, a person led by the Holy Spirit will never force his or her beliefs on anyone, that should show you how many people that claim to be Christian, that are not truly Christian, Christianity has been hi-jacked by a large group of people that claim be from God, that are not led by the Holy Spirit, which means they are not Christian
LikeLiked by 1 person
Mark, I think we’re at cross purposes. I’m talking history and you’re talking about your vision of your personal spirituality. I have no intention of undermining your vision- my job is simply identifying and authenticating what we can consider genuine fact from what is just conjecture. I think you’d be doing yourself a favour by separating the two.
LikeLike
I was brainwashed for 18 years by false teachers that claim to be Christian, so I am willing to hear what you have to say, I don’t believe the NT was written about our time period, I believe everything in the NT was fulfilled after Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70, I am very fascinated by the history of the Roman Empire during the time of the Apostles.
LikeLike
So anyway, I think the rule was, two bites of the cherry only?
LikeLike
I’m DOING MY BEST 😛
LikeLiked by 1 person
So, Lev 20:10 is not the definition of adultery? The Jews followed what the Old Testament said, correct, & where in the Hebrew Bible does it say adultery has anything to do with another man’s daughter, please show me where that is in the OT
LikeLike
Nope. That’s not the definition of adultery as we know it today. The problem is you’re reading the word adultery in the modern context. The operative word there is ‘wife’. A man used the property of another man, that was adultery. The word itself derives from adulterare (to corrupt), and one could supposedly only corrupt wives and virgin daughters.
Here’s a good general article for you: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Adulterium.html
LikeLike
Pink, that’s a good article, but the first 5 books of the OT are the books of the law for the Jews, that article talks about Roman law, the Jews kept the law that was written in the OT, therefore Lev 20:10 would be their definition of adultery in regards to a man having sex with another man’s wife, as far as I know God’s law overruled any other law
LikeLike
Deep breaths- what you have to understand is the linguistics of the time. The very definition of the word adultery meant something other than what it is today. The same way the definition of the word salary was different in Roman times. Is that very tough to get around?
LikeLike
I understand what you are saying, I’m not trying to argue with you, but the OT was written before Christ, if what you are saying is true, I will accept it, here’s my problem, the OT was written in Hebrew, not Greek, it was later translated to Greek, & from what I understand there are many errors in the Greek translation of the OT, is Lev 20:10 not talking about a man having sex with another man’s wife? If the English translation is wrong, I definitely want to know, I already know that the English Bible is not 100% true
LikeLike
If you’re really interested, I’m happy to share with you what I know. The mindset was generally the same for Jews and Romans (where law was concerned). Women were considered property, so to ‘use’ a woman was considered theft (as in have sex with) . Adulterium meant to go into another man’s life and take advantage of what was his- adulterate. Keep in mind dowries were important in those days. Anyway, to adulterate a woman was an attack on the assets of another man.
LikeLiked by 1 person
That absolutely makes sense, then in the NT, Christ said that if a man looks at another man’s wife to desire her, to covet her, to take her away from her husband, the man desiring her has committed adultery with her in his heart, to commit adultery is to take a married woman away from her husband, would you agree with that ?
LikeLike
YES!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Pink, stop being so stupidly rude to Insanity. She is one of my best blogging buddies, and I really don’t appreciate her being treated like this for leaving her opinions here. Yes she has some astoundingly odd opinions on things, but she’s smart and interesting, and also she engages in some form of useful discussion if you’d bother to take the time.
LikeLike
What you’re doing is indulging stupidity for no reason. Trust me, been there, done that, it serves no purpose in the long run. Waste of time.
LikeLike
Rubbish. She’s not stupid and I’m not indulging her. She’s a great blogger, just wrong about most subjects. You should follow her, I’m sure you could learn a thing or two about being interesting.
LikeLike
I’d rather drink ink.
LikeLiked by 2 people
How’s life with you anyway? Claire said you got married and moved. Are you still doing your private blog for all your sycophantic fans the your bigot buddy? 😉
LikeLike
Darling, do you realize you’re treading on dangerous ground?
I’m perfectly happy and open to learning and engaging with new ideas. That happens often for me when I read. Occasionally I’ve been fortunate enough online to meet people like Ark, Roughseas and Zande and I’m particularly rewarded by being allowed to embark on new (and methodologically correct) thought processes. I’m sorry to say method is not your forte, not yours nor IB’s. If you’d like I can elaborate.
LikeLike
Oh my, have we dispensed with the pleasantries already? And don’t try and steal my blogging buddies off me. Me, Ark and John have history, man. We used to form the Great Southern Hemisphere Atheist Triangle. You’ll never take that away from us!
LikeLiked by 1 person
” The fact that people engage in premarital sex or divorce does not than justify gay marriage. ”
My point perhaps wasn’t well made. The Bible is crystal clear about where it stands on premarital sex and divorce. The Bible is open to interpretation about where it stands on gay marriage, given that it isn’t mentioned at all, and given that promiscuous homosexuality, which is mentioned, is a different area altogether.
So where the Bible is clear, Christians accept the sin and move on – there are no campaigns to refuse service to divorced or unmarried couples. Yet where Christians have every reason to reserve judgement and concede there can be different interpretations, they are most judgemental and condemning. That was the comparison I meant to make.
LikeLike
As a former catholic, I have to say I was taught the same as IB22…that all sexual immorality was sin, period. Catholics were notoriously intolerant of divorce until very recently, and several female members of my family were excommunicated from the church for divorce and called whores for remarrying. It’s still a total humiliation to be pregnant before marriage if you’re catholic. Homosexuality is considered as evil as both divorce and unwed pregnancy and not judged differently. Basically everyone’s going to burn in hell for one reason or another. That’s catholics for you.
LikeLike
All true; but I’d add a free-pass for establishment figures. Whether a marriage annulment or an official appointment- if one is well connected within the church structure, one can basically do what one wants 😉
LikeLike
YES.
LikeLiked by 1 person
No catholic priests got a free pass for fucking little boys.
LikeLike
That’s sarcasm, isn’t it?
LikeLike
Wow you actually need to ask.. /smirk
LikeLike
Subbing
LikeLike
Particularly lovely duck, Violet.
LikeLiked by 2 people
IMOs…
I do. Seems like pretty clear divine mandates to abort to me. I don’t know if they were carried out, or if the “cursed” water was sometimes/always/never effective at that, but it does at least show intent on the writers’ parts.
Oops, forgot to close that last blockquote. The last line is mine, obv.
LikeLike
The only thing that puzzles me, is why would a god who created an entire universe, care what a bunch of naked apes do with their genitals?
LikeLike
Maybe he’s only got a basic tv package? No HBO?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Then I’ll be sure to give the Christian god a good lesbian show next time he happens by my bedroom!
LikeLike
what I find warped is not what Christians do with the bible, what I find warped is that there are minds that believe they should live their lives according to a book they wouldn’t consider for anything else
LikeLike
You mean you don’t use the biblical recipe for goat entrails? 😛
LikeLike
I was hoping it could have covered how to cook Christian babies. That would be the most important information
LikeLike
It’s important to understand, that the words “sexual immorality” in Matt 19:9 is speaking of a woman who is married that deceived her husband into thinking that she was a virgin before they were married, the words “sexually immorality” are not referring to adultery, if a woman has sex before she is married she commits sexual immorality, that’s what Matt 19:9 is saying, Matt 19:9 does not say a man can divorce his wife if she cheats on him while they are married
LikeLike
Our new blogging frind, David, has a post up which I think you’ll find interesting. He thinks letting gays marry is a hostile act.
https://davidstheology.wordpress.com/2015/04/28/gods-word-on-trial-again/
LikeLike
Thanks! Any day now I’ll have lots of blogging time and the fodder is piling up!
LikeLike
Once again, the only relevant question is WHY should anybody care what the Bible tells us?
The Bible may say just about anything about anything. The Christians have never really lived their lives according to it. Or rather, they choose from it what they consider supportive of their own prejudices and indeed ethics. As western culture has changed and grown, so have the interpretations of the Bible.
The Christians who lived few hundred years ago during the reformation could not recognize any of the moral, or social applications of major sects of Christianity today. The further back in time we look, the more different are the practical applications of this religion from the ever multiplying number of sects, that represent it today. They may very well share some of the main the storytelling elements, superstitions and similar rituals, and even some traits that connect it with common human needs, that have made it popular – that and the fact that there is a serious threat of violence both in the imagined afterlife and in this one.
Let’s be honest, the Bible does not really offer any view on gay marriage, atomic energy, climate change, pollution, gene manipulation, over population, artificial intelligence, space travel, or even possible extraterrestial life. Yes, I know, one can – with vivid imagination – come up with some “interpretation” from some obscure phrase concerning something completely different stuff to fit one’s own ideas, as if it was a refercence to such, but the book itself is just a depiction of a mythical worldview by few very particular groups of superstitious tribal moralists in the Middle- East. It offers a very heinous view on slavery and of the alledged creator entity, but one can spin those to seem good to oneself, if one just really wants and is able to ignore facts or incapable to evaluate them.
All religions invalidate some people, to become unable to handle the reality of their particular religion being just a nother superstition among so many others…
LikeLike
Indeed, the Bible can be used to say anything about anything. I just wish christians would acknowledge that and not be so arrogant in their judgements on others.
LikeLike
Well, that is one thing their book actually does tell them. Not to be too quick to judge, but it is hard to find more judgemental people than those who think there is a god, that absolutely agrees whith them just about anything.
LikeLike
Here is the thing. I married my wife Sarah. I really don’t care about the Christian definition of Marriage. The simplest answer to a Christian when they protest “gay marriage” is this.
Marriage is a law made by man in the USA. The USA has another law in the constitution which is the ultimate law of the land that says. All laws shall apply to all people equally. it’s called the equal protections act.
Since “marriage as a law” bestows rights and privileges as well as a legal status withing the USA and it does not apply equally. The either 1) ALL marriages need to be immediately thrown out as unconstitutional or 2) the law MUST be changed to protect all people the same.
See there is a difference between the law of the USA and the marriage of the bible. The two must be kept separate because another part of the constitution says you can’t force your religion on me and you can’t use the power of the state to either. it’s called the separation of church and state and is also in the constitution.
So to get gay marriage all one has to do is get to the supreme court and say marriage is a law and the law does not protect all citizens equally. End of game.
Thank you and good day,
Michelle
LikeLiked by 1 person