possibly the worst post ever
When it comes to crazy posts from wayward Christians, I sometimes get complacent about just how bad it can get. And then I stumble across something like this: Christian Husbands – You don’t pay for the milk when you own the cow!
What this male Christian blogger tells us in his bovine themed post is:
1. The onus lies on Christian women to make sure they don’t have sex before marriage. Because who buys the cow (or marries a woman), if they can milk (or sex) for free?
2. Once married, Christian women must have sex with their husbands whenever the man wants – because he’s bought the cow.
Now I’m sure all my readers are charmed by this quaint analogy and are keen to hear more. It does get worse.
When your wife tells you “If you do ___________ for me, then I will do that for you”, you need to sit down and take out the Word of God. You must see this as God sees it, as an act of rebellion against your authority over her (and her body), and by extension as an act of rebellion against God himself, because he has given her to you. You need to rebuke your wife’s sinful behavior.
Disgusted? It gets even worser.
When I first had to confront my wife with these types of issues, I would confront her, and then just leave the sex to happen another night, because after all, I like most men don’t prefer to have sex with my wife when she acts grumpy about it. But I realized that the sex still needs to occur, that sex is not about being in the mood, and it is not about feelings, it is about doing what is right.
The great thing about this upstanding Christian blogger, who encourages other people to live by his vile interpretation of the Bible, is that he’s divorced AND remarried. He’s living in a state of ongoing sin. He is a sinner by his own standards and he’s not even doing the decent thing by returning to his first wife, with whom he is one flesh.
Lurking around his About page, we get more insight into the mindset, in the form of praise from a like-minded blogger:
in my alias “Altervater” (which means ‘old father’) I’m anticipating and approving/affirming your point ‘elder man, younger woman’
I expect there’s a pattern here of disgruntled and frankly useless men, unable to maintain early relationships with equals, then heaping all their bitterness on women in general. They look for a belief system that will make them feel good about themselves and will justify their insecure need to dominate. They find this in Christianity’s submission teaching and in younger brainwashed Christian women who they can more easily bully into submission using the Bible.
I could be wrong, I’m just skim-reading these vile posts. He could be a perfectly nice chap with a valid point about owning cows.
Like I said before, these authoritative abrahamic religions attract narcissists. Victoria would go a step further and say it creates them. It’s really a chicken or egg conundrum to me.
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You can see how the Bible can be used easily to justify this kind of behaviour. I can’t complain this teaching warps the Bible like in other posts.
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No it isn’t warped. The Bible, that is. The Bible is pretty clear about it.
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Well, it is warped, just not in it’s interpretation.
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Kind of interesting Violet, on the domestic violence continuum, with holding affection and sex is a form of psychological abuse……but only when men do it. It’s actually a form of control and manipulation and plays on someone’s emotions. To demand a husband earn his wife’s affection, or work for the right to have sex, is not perceived this way, however.
There’s a bit of a double standard there. If you were to reverse the genders, say for instance the husband kept implying the wife wasn’t attractive enough to sleep with, most of us would find that pretty abusive. If the husband demanded the wife must earn the right to have sex with him, I bet we’d be a bit appalled too. That’s because it’s an abusive and controlling thing to do.
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In plain English, IB, are you saying this bloke’s behaviour is right?
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Yes, insanitybytes22, I am a bit curious too. What is the actual “double standard” you refer to? Are you saying that this kind of action is wrong, or possibly justified, either way? Does the hubbie or the wifie have a responsibility to offer sex when ever the other party demands it? Do you share the quoted sentiment, that “sex is not about being in the mood, and it is not about feelings”?
Personally, I could not possibly live with a woman who would submit to such abuse, act like she had no own desires, or even her own will, or would take kindly to being compared to property, nor cows. Having sex with such a defenceless person would be like having sex with a minor – disgusting.
Having sex with someone who has no desire to and is not in “the mood to”, is just rape – again, simply disgusting. I could not possibly engage. Could you?
Having sex with someone whom one can force to submit by sheer violence, or by mental abuse, like Bible bashing, is terribly narcissistic – just like Ruth said. Masturbation by abusing the other person. Perhaps, the powerdrive of the other person submitting gives some male individuals who otherwise suffer problems with their erection, if such problems are a result of self esteem issues. Like so often is the case in abusive behaviour.
Marrying someone you have not had sex with, is not very clever at all. It is about not knowing what you are getting into. It may have had some moral ground before contraception was invented, but no more. Altough people can pull that kind of marriages through too (and have for centuries), they should no longer need to, simply because of antiquated superstitions. Right?
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Having sex with someone who has no desire to and is not in “the mood to”, is just rape – again, simply disgusting.
This. Manipulating someone into having sex with you when you know they don’t want to is rape. It’s as bad or worse than the manipulation of withholding for spite.
I’d also like to ask: is it just sex in general that isn’t to ever, ever be withheld or is it any sex act the husband wants? After all he has “bought and paid” for that cow. How demeaning!
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I’m going to disagree with you here. Withholding affection and sex from your partner is a form of psychological abuse. Period. It doesn’t matter which partner it is. There is no double standard. It most certainly is perceived that way when a woman does it because it is manipulative. I don’t know where you got your information about that.
Why does this happen, though? Admittedly there are some coldhearted women out there who just do it to be controlling. Overall, though, I’d say that women engage this practice because they are not equals in the relationship and it is their only means of leveling the playing field. I’m not arguing that this makes it right or okay. I’ve never employed that tactic myself. I find it revolting. Perhaps it’s because that was used as warfare against me and I know how it feels.
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Insanity, I’m not sure what to make of your comment. I don’t see it as one gender does this and one gender does that. Sex is like any other aspect of a relationship, like any other activity, couples should do it when they both feel like it. You wanted to go see Cinderella with your husband, he didn’t. He wasn’t ‘withholding’ a right of yours, he just didn’t feel like it and you would have no right to force him, although you may try friendly cajoling and encouragement. If he still doesn’t feel like it, perhaps he’ll want to join you on another excursion. I don’t see how sex is any different. I guess because Christians spend so much time obsessing about sex as a pre-marital or extra-marital sin, it takes a special significance it needn’t have.
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Well, sex really is a rather significant part of marriage. To promote the idea that scripture is somehow flawed and that Christians are weird for placing value on sex within marriage, is a strange thing indeed. You’ve kind of taken a rather beautiful concept and attempted to transform it into something ugly and exploitative.
Marriages often collapse because women in our culture are being taught to use sex as a form of manipulation and control, as power to be held over another. That not only makes men miserable, it makes women miserable too. In order to have a healthy marriage and a healthy sexuality, we have to address these issues.
My husband actually does go places with me, sometimes even when he would probably prefer not to. Within marriage, we are often called to do things we may not “feel” like doing. Sex is not any different, you’re right. It is part of the commitment you make towards each other.
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“we are often called to do things we may not “feel” like doing. Sex is not any different” – You’ve never tried to get an erection with an ugly woman, have you? Ain’t happenin’ —
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Men are more than capable of getting an erection without a woman around at all, so like most of what you say archa, complete poppycock. It’s probably a reassuring thought, however. I suppose even non believers must be allowed their delusions.
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“poppycock” – Is that any different from any other kind with which I’m familiar? Of course, I’m referring to poppies —
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Actually, IB, I find that humor puts your beliefs in their proper perspective.
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“Marriages often collapse because women in our culture are being taught to use sex as a form of manipulation and control, as power to be held over another.”
Well then, that makes it totally ok for a man to force sex on his wife anytime he pleases. If a wife’s in a coma? Put out, lady! Feel repulsed because your husband hasn’t showered in a week? Give up the goods! Exhausted from caring for a sick child all day? Bend over, dear!
There is no way on earth any rational person can see this is as ok, christian or not. This isn’t about marriage, it’s about slavery and “owning” someone. What decent person wants to force sex on someone who doesn’t want to have sex with them? A controlling asshole, that’s who. But hey, he’s been given asshole rights by god, so what do I know?
The fact that both men and women on this forum are forcefully opposing this idea should say something to you, Insanity. Treating *anyone* like property (or in this case, a cow) is simply wrong no matter what justification you give.
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I read a post of IB’s some time back, on her own blog, as to how it was a glory to be a woman and submit to your husband’s will – that was enough for me. She’s very intelligent, but boy, is her head screwed on wrong.
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“To promote the idea that scripture is somehow flawed and that Christians are weird for placing value on sex within marriage, is a strange thing indeed.”
Where did I do that? Sex has value within marriage as do other activities, like going to the cinema, as in the example. It’s about bonding and shared experiences. And of course we often do things we’re not completely in the mood for, for people we love – be that sex or going to see Cinderella. And sometimes we don’t – equally because we’re not in the mood for it. But it’s about choice, not force. This man is saying that women must always do as their husband says, that her body doesn’t belong to her. The commitment involves mutual respect, and his post shows he has little or no respect for his wife.
My point about Christians being messed up about sex still stands. When sex is seen as a generally ‘bad’ urge that can only be undertaken or even imagined with one person (and only after marriage vows are exchanged) people have a really warped sense of what it is. No wonder these people struggle to have healthy relationships.
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Actually, this man made it pretty clear that it’s a two way street, that the husband’s body doesn’t belong exclusively to him either. You don’t seem concerned about the husband’s body at all?
He didn’t mention anything about force, either. That’s actually a projection, an assumption being made that isn’t even written there.
So as to warped views on sexuality, you are actually the one who is portraying this marriage as being one with an exploited woman being forced into sex she doesn’t want. You have set up a narrative that suggests victimization and exploitation, even with no evidence of that being true. That’s about as odd of a distortion as calling me a submissive weakling 😉
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I’m just reading your totally horrendous post on this. I think I may have lost some of my confused respect for your unusual ramblings. You’ve really lost this plot on this topic.
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Violet, I can’t comment on this topic because I’m too busy gagging over it. Then I made the mistake of going to the blogger’s main site, and now I’m busy vomiting on my keyboard.
Fortunately I was still able to find this song for you…it’s about the “free milk and a cow” topic:
PS Lovely and colorful ivy (I think it’s ivy?).
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Sorry your keyboard got ruined! 😀
This blogger is a special kind of awful.
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Honestly Violet, I don’t think you could ever outdo the sheer disgust factor of this topic…and to think people are actually defending this crap. The horror!
You owe me a new keyboard. Get one for a chromebook and post it overnight. Thanks. 🙂
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“I don’t think you could ever outdo the sheer disgust factor of this topic”
This feels like a challenge. But one I doubt I want to face …
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You never know what you’ll come across in the future on christian blogs…don’t rule it out! 😉
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Oh violet, things just got more disgusting on Insanity’s blog. They’re now talking about how it’s ok for this man to have sex with his wife, who has alzheimers and is in a nursing home. He was brought up on charges of rape but was acquitted (the nursing home staff said she couldn’t give consent). Insanity cried over the fact that a man could be brought up on rape charges for sex with his wife, even though his wife didn’t know who he was. If you’ve just eaten, wait awhile before you go here:
Obviously she has no understanding of what we’re trying to say.
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I was really, really hoping that the blog you discussed here was a parody site and not a real person’s opinions, sort of like the Landover Baptist church website. I googled it though, and no such luck.
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Yes, I hoped it was a parody site as well, and did kind of wonder for while. But it does seem frighteningly genuine. I hope his wife is alright, and manages to escape some day.
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Reblogged this on Biblical Gender Roles and commented:
I invite my readers, to check out Violet’s post “commenting” on my post “Christian Husbands – You don’t pay for the milk when you own the cow!”
1. What is said is right there in the Old Testament, if you don’t like the Bible just say so.
2. Again – ditto.
As far as her reaction to my quotes – these words of Scriptures come to mind:
“The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.” – I Corinthians 2:14
But when name calling is not enough, Violet needs to throw in a little untruth:
“The great thing about this upstanding Christian blogger, who encourages other people to live by his vile interpretation of the Bible, is that he’s divorced AND remarried. He’s living in a state of ongoing sin. He is a sinner by his own standards and he’s not even doing the decent thing by returning to his first wife, with whom he is one flesh.”
What she does not know is that my first wife had not one, but two affairs on me(she was not a true believer and has not dawned the doorstep of a church in many years).
There are actually multiple reasons the Scripture allows for divorce, but the easiest one to prove is the one Christ said himself:
“But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of FORNICATION, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.” – Matthew 5:32
“The great thing about this upstanding Christian blogger, who encourages other people to live by his vile interpretation of the Bible, is that he’s divorced AND remarried. He’s living in a state of ongoing sin. He is a sinner by his own standards and he’s not even doing the decent thing by returning to his first wife, with whom he is one flesh.”
For those not familiar with fornication, it encompasses all sexual immorality, including adultery – which is a specific form of fornication when a man has sex with married woman. When a man(married or single) has sex with a unmarried woman, he has committed the sin of whoredom.
So yes Violet I am still a sinner, a sinner saved by grace. However in my divorce to my first wife, I am not in fact “a sinner by my own standards”, my divorce was completely Biblical.
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I don’t understand your response. You said your wife wouldn’t yeild sex to you, so you tried to point out the error of her ways by using scripture…but she wasn’t a believer. So how did you think the scripture would have any effect on her if she wasn’t a believer?
Also, did your wife know she was to surrender her body to your every sexual whim before you got married? I can see how that might have caused severe marital problems for you if you never had that discussion with her prior to “purchasing” her.
If any man ever pulled this shit on me, a divorce would be the least of his problems. (Sorry Violet if I’m “lowering your tone,” but some things really do deserve a swear word.)
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Dickhead comes to mind …. feel free to borrow this famous epithet. Arch will be along soon, I’m sure!
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I’m not here to do Ark’s bidding, but when I don’t, he pouts and I hate the way his lower lip quivers – so 5, 4, 3, 2:
Did somebody say Dickhead?
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And just to raise the tone on VW’s blog to an acceptable level – BGR, this one’s for you too!
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The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.” – I Corinthians 2:14
Sometime I will do a post on “The fact that you/they disagree with me proves that you/they are wrong” verses. Thank you for this new one for my collection.
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Am I to take this to mean you fully support stoning children to death in U.S. public squares if they disobey their parents?
Or do you just cherry pick the OT to suit your needs?
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My apologies for jumping to conclusions, and I’m sorry to hear your first wife was unfaithful. I think you should reconsider your approach to your second wife if you don’t want to go through another divorce. It seems unlikely that any sentient being would put up with such selfish and arrogant behaviour in their partner: someone who places his sexual desires above her well being. It certainly doesn’t sound like something the character Jesus would do.
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If you look up the Greek word for “fornication” in that verse, the Greek word has nothing to do with adultery, in that verse the word “fornication” is talking about. a woman who is not virgin before she gets married, in other words, a woman that has sex before she is married commits fornication, if a woman deceives her husband into thinking that she was a virgin before they were married, the husband can divorce her, that’s what Matt 5:32 is talking about, the New Testament never says a husband can divorce his wife if she cheats on him, & marry another woman, the only reason a husband can divorce his wife is if she received her husband into believing she was a virgin before they were married
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Oops, poor guy. What should he do now so he doesn’t go on living in a state of sin? Would he have to either return to his wife or remain celibate for the rest of his life?
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Violet, honestly I don’t know what he should do, he definitely committed adultery when he divorced his wife & married another woman, but I’m not sure if he is in a constant state of adultery with his 2nd wife, also if his 1st wife remarried, then he caused her & the man that married her to commit adultery, but there is nothing in the New Testament that says that she & the man that she married are in a constant state of adultery. The New Testament does say that a woman who divorces her husband, & remarries while her ex-husband is still alive is an adulteress, she is in a constant state of adultery until her ex-husband dies, but the NT never says that about a husband who divorces his wife, the NT does say a wife that leaves, or divorces her husband must remain unmarried, or reconcile with her husband, but the NT never says that about a husband that divorces his wife, the NT makes it very clear that a husband must not divorce his wife for any reason other than his wife lied about being a virgin before they were married, the husband is held to a much higher standard than the wife when it comes to divorce, the wife can divorce her husband for any reason, but she must remain unmarried, or reconcile with him, or if he dies she can remarry, the husband can only divorce his wife for only one reason, if the husband divorces his wife, but does not remarry, then he does not commit adultery, but he still causes his ex-wife to commit adultery if she remarries, the ex-wife & the man she marries commit adultery, the first husband causes that to happen
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I expect to be on the safe side he should take up a life of celibacy. Sounds like what Jesus would have done anyway.
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Violet, all I can say is, no one led by the Holy Spirit would ever do what that guy did, because the Holy Spirit protects those who are born of the Spirit from practicing sin. No one led by the Holy Spirit would ever divorce his wife & marry another woman for any reason except the wife lied about being a virgin before they were married, hopefully that guy will see that truth, & realize that he has been deceived into believing something about divorce that isn’t true & start speaking the truth about divorce so that others will see that truth too, so that they won’t do the same thing that he did. If a person who claims to be Christian isn’t led by the Holy Spirit, then person isn’t born of God.
Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
1 John 3:9 No one born of God [born of the Spirit] practices sin
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Re-read your own comment, BFA, and just look at all of the hoops you think you have to jump through! That’s why your god likes atheists best, we never ask him for anything.
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LOL! I don’t have to jump through any hoops, no one led by the Holy Spirit would ever do the opposite of what the New Testament says a Christian is supposed to do, it is the Holy Spirit that lives in me that makes me obey God 🙂
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I am actually familar the Greek language as I attended Christian school, and have taught Sunday School in past years.
The greek word that fornication is being translated from is “Porneia”.
This is the definition according to Thayer’s and Smith’s Bible Dictionary:
“Thayer’s and Smith’s Bible Dictionary:
illicit sexual intercourse
adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,
metaph. the worship of idols
of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
This is not the first time I have this argument, as I have from other Christians even in churches I attended.
The problem is you are limiting the word fornication, to only pre-marital sex(as in she was not a virgin before marriage)
but the word is not limited to that.
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False
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“Now come home and help me around the house be a TRUE partner and hell I’ll be fucking you until your cock falls off.” – So…where do I sign up? Is there a sign-in sheet, or –?
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If you are my husband/partner then you are already signed up. But I see marriage as a partnership not a sub/dom thing. If my man is my partner I have no problem being his sex toy and he being mine. But to many marriages seem to be man works comes home and sits down, wife works comes home, cleans, cooks ect.. then she has to put out? Nope not happening…
So you looking for the job? I live in Hawaii and ain’t moving. I surf to much but I only need 4 hours sleep a night so it leaves lots of time for other fun. I like being on top too.. seems some guys dislike that /mutter
But good morning! https://aghostdancer.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=1099 8:44am sunshine rise and shine! And you can see I was working on mail last night and I’m not a neat freak..
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“I like being on top too.. seems some guys dislike that /mutter” – Interesting you should say that. I don’t get a lot of occasions to tell this story, except at an occasional party, and by the time I get around to it, i usually have a lampshade on my head, so it loses its full effect.
I’m not overly critical of the women I date, but over time, one little thing, plus another little thing, etc., begin to add up, and ultimately the decision dawns that this one is not for me. With one girl I dated for over a year, the first of those “little things” occurred when I moved her on top, and she said, “You know, I really don’t like that position —” Strike one!
“But too many marriages seem to be man works comes home and sits down, wife works comes home, cleans, cooks ect.. then she has to put out?” – This originated long ago, when men went out and worked and women stayed home, and I’m OK with that, as, true, the woman certainly had her own work to do at home, but essentially, she had no boss looking over her shoulder, no line to toe, and if her husband needed a little TLC after a rough day, she was certainly free to set aside the ironing for another day and give it to him. Since about the middle of the last century, that has become no longer economically possible – the average woman has to work as well as her husband if they are going to make ends meet, and toes just as many lines as, if not more than, he does. I’ve become a rather good cook, as long as I’m not expected to make anything too fancy, and I’m only happy to show off my culinary skills to a woman, but even if I couldn’t, hell, anybody can make a salad, heat up a can of green beans, pop a potato in the microwave, while she creates the entre – work together, then no one person has to do too much.
I lived, literally, across the street from the ocean in Mexico for some time and swim like a dolphin, but sadly, I never learned to surf. Now the only water near me comes in cubes.
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Ouch. No ocean? I’d simply die! See you are the type of man I’d give everything to. Why? Because you share things from cooking to dishes it’s a partnership. less work for me means more energy for you so to speak.
You seem cool I don’t know why they said even Arch didn’t pounce on the guy. 🙂 For me the ocean is less than a mile away. My beach home in Florida it is 2 blocks away. Surfing’s better here in Hawaii though.
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I have no problem doing dishes – I plan to start on my April dishes first thing in the morning.
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rofl. I do them more often than that. Sarah and I do them daily anyway. Dishwasher helps, rise, and stack…done
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“I don’t know why they said even Arch didn’t pounce on the guy.” – They weren’t wrong, I do pounce, but not on people who don’t try to shove their beliefs down my throat.
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Well it’s my belief you are a decent person! Take that..
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The Greek word “Porneia” doesn’t mean “adultery”, look up the Greek word for ” adultery” & you will see that truth, the Greek word “Porneia” & the Greek word for “adultery” do not have the same meaning
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“
Do you mean like with daughters (Lot)? Half-sisters (Abraham)? Cousins (Issac)? Second cousins (Jacob)?
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And as a godly woman that takes pleasing God seriously I am not at all disgusted by his post. If anything disgusts me it is the words and attitudes of ‘Christian’ feminist women that are just as bitter and rebellious as their non Christian counterparts.
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As a godly woman! Frak, are you out of your skull?
Do you not realise what this dipshit is saying?
He considers your arse is owned.
That he also puts up a picture of a cow to emphasize his point is beyond words.
Even if he was simply taking the piss, the fact that you agree is mind-boggling.
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Yep, that’s what I believe. And vice versa.
‘The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife.’-1 Cor 7:4
And if you don’t like the idea of being owned and bought with a price then I think its safe to assume your not a follower of Christ. Christians clearly don’t have a right over their own bodies. In surrender and submission is a humans true strength found; both man and woman.
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While I wish you well and certainly no harm; with these deeply held beliefs I sincerely believe you are suffering from some form of mental illness and hope you do not have any children, or have access to them to preach this horrendous diatribe.
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“In surrender and submission is a humans true strength found; both man and woman” – I need to try that line next time I’m in a bar, and see how far it gets me. Who knows, I might be pleasantly surprised.
Speaking of submission, and we were – true story – I once met a girl in a bar, who, by the time the evening was over, offered to take me to her apartment and tie me to her bed. Upon further discussion, I learned she had just broken up with her jealous boyfriend that same afternoon, and that he still had a key, which brought such vivid images to mind that I declined the invitation, as generous as it seemed on the surface to be. Under the right circumstances, the leap from bondage to traction is not so great as one might think.
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Satan is unable to create something from nothing as God does. He can only pervert the good that God already created and ordained. Mutual submission out of love and reverence to God is a far cry from selfish, casual fetish sexual encounters.
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“Mutual submission out of love and reverence to God….” – There may be some truth to that, most of the women I’ve known said, “Oh God!” a lot.
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Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. -1 Cor 6:19-20…. If your not a believer than you are under no obligation to believe the truth if Gods word, but it is clear on the matter. Now do I think the analogy was a wise one? No, it was a bit distasteful but the content was solid. Also, another matter completely is the fact that if a man stops pursuing the heart of his wife even after he is married and neglects the other scriptures that command him to love his wife as Christ loves the church, she is likely to end up resenting him. But as believers, we don’t have the right to deny sex to our spouse.
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Hi, Emily Rose Lewis, you wrote: ” If your not a believer than you are under no obligation to believe the truth if Gods word, but it is clear on the matter.”
Could you clarify this up a bit?
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If someone doesn’t claim to walk in the light of Christ then it’s to be expected they are walking in darkness. Or, one can’t expect someone walking in darkness to see the light.
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“If someone doesn’t claim to walk in the light of Christ then it’s to be expected they are walking in darkness.” – But that would be a biased assumption without basis, they could as easily be walking in the light of self-determination.
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The light of ‘self’ anything is no light at all. I am referring to the light of Truth. Someone’s own personal truth holds no authority to me. Jesus is The Truth. As I said though, if you don’t believe this, I can hardly expect you to buy into the Truth of Gods Word. It’s a non-discussion for us really. All one has without believing in absolute truth is their own very limited perspective/truth. I respect your right to disagree. I am not bothered by anyone’s opinion or false assumptions about me, my God, or how I chose to live my life and what I believe.
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“I am referring to the light of Truth.” – Your “truth” is as subjective as mine, despite all of the little catch phrases and buzz words you’ve learned through life.
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We could go on and on. There is only One that can open blind eyes and unless Holy Spirit gives you insight into what I am saying its bound to sound like jibberish to you. I’ll kindly end the conversation so we can both move on to whatever else we need to do. You are welcome to come visit my blog if your interested in reading anything else I have to say. Otherwise, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day. For real. Have a nice day. C-ya. 💃
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You are not normal.
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You’re right. I am superhuman. It takes the Spirit of God living in a person to empower them to live a supernatural life.
‘The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.’ – 1 Cor 2:14
Cheerful obedience to God’s standards is not congruent with playing the victim so I understand why modern feminists don’t adhere to the standard of God’s Word.
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Which god are you referring to, please?
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I Am
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Do you mean Yahweh?
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Well, hell Ark, neither are we, yet we still manage to stumble around rather well from time to time – normal is overrated.
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@Emily Rose Lewis, spirits, gods, bought with a price? Does this not sound terribly primitive to yourself? Yes, of course we are all our own, exept when we are coerced to have faith instead of trusting our own senses, or when we are coerced to submission. Everybody should be their own. Otherwise there could not possibly be any free will, that seems to be a major Christian tenet.
What is obligation? An inner need to the right thing and cultural concepts of what is right or wrong? Or an empty threat of violence in the alledged and popular, but as of yet, totally and absolutely unproven concept of afterlife? But nobody would choose with their free will eternal torment, would they? Honestly, that would make no sense at all. Would it? It is just that most people do not find such nonsense compelling enough to even believe it. Whose fault is it that these people are condemned to suffer for an eternity, if it however is real? Of the one and only alledged power, that could have convinced them otherwise, but failed totally with most of humanity. Right?
To me a person having sex with a person who would rather not, is just masturbating by abusing the other person – not much different from rape – regardless of the method of coercion to sex, be it straight forward violence, or mental abuse like arbitrary religious rules. Why is this not the same to you?
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I have been bought with the price by the precious blood of Jesus Christ. In surrender to the one that created me, and knows me and the purpose for which I was created, I become more myself then I ever was apart from God, seeking to find my identity elsewhere.
I didn’t say that it was the loving thing to do to insist on sex when your wife or husband is saying they don’t want to, but it is still a spouses right. People need to fulfill their marital responsibility. It is usually the wife withholding sex and its wrong, especially if she is using sex as manipulation. When a Christian is married they are committed to sleep with no one else. Two become one flesh. Should one refuse their own needs. No. In a family we do things we don’t ‘feel’ like doing or aren’t in ‘the mood’ to do all the time to keep the unity and to serve each other. I don’t always feel like cleaning, cooking, working or whatever but so what? People have become so self centered and selfish. If a baby is hungry and I, as the babies mother don’t feel like feeding him, does my feeling somehow become the measure by which I am to act? By no means.
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@Emily Rose Lewis, I agree with you that the original topic post quote was distastefull. It was like saying that the Christian man is shopping for a prostitute and a maid in the same shop. Not at all like he was looking for an equal companion for a life long relationship.
I am sorry, but when you say things like: “bought with the price by the precious blood of Jesus Christ”, to me it is just disturbingly superstitious nonsense. What does it even mean? What is the actual reason to believe in this primitive fantasy? There exists none what so ever even remotely objective evidence, that anything such is for real. Does there?
However, having had some conversations with Christians before, I have learned, that this is as much a part of your identity as it is for the Trekkies to know stuff about the space ship U.S.S. Enterprice and adhere to the continuum of their story. Only difference is, that you take your fairytale for real.
It is perfectly OK to have a cultural identity and adhere to it, but it seems weird and abusive when the freedom and wellbeing of others is concerned. Like in this case coercing the other to have sex even if they do not feel like it. If one really loves their partner, they should persuade the other, make them feel wanted and show appriciation, rather than to demand sex because of religious or otherwise superstitious nonsense. Fidelity does not require anybody to offer sex on demand. If matters are so bad between a couple that they are manipulating each other by witholding sex, they should discuss the matter, seek help and finally divorce, if those did not help the situation. Not revert to demands of submission.
Cleaning up, or cooking does not require me to abuse my relationship with my spouse. It does not require anybody to submit to anything, or anybody, if it is done in a mutually agreeable and equally fair manner (like everything else in a family). Sex is not a responsibility, and should not be considered such, or that will inevitably eat up some of the joy connected to it. The analogy to household responsibilities does not hold. If sex is to you only a menial task, like cleaning up, then I can only be a bit sorry for you, not ever having had really good sex. I really like cooking, but it does not compare with sex on any level. But as a comfort I can only offer this, I guess there are good lives lived by many people despite them just having poor sex, or even none at all.
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Having sex with your spouse IS a Christians responsibility. This was blogged about and reblogged by people professing to be Christians. My comments are from a Christian/Biblical perspective. As I said before, they do not apply to unbelievers.
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@Emily Rose Lewis, fair enough. 🙂 I get it, that our perspectives are totally different. I was just asking what actually causes your perspective? Where does it come from? I was not asking what you belive, but why? I am sorry if I did not make myself clear.
You do know, that most professing Christians in the world do not see this the same way you and your particular sect seem to be taking it? What do you suppose has deluded them after they have submitted themselves to your common particular god? Did your god fail to make itself clear?
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There are plenty of professing Christians that don’t walk in obedience; some out of rebellion; some out of ignorance. God is clear on the matter.
If you are truly interested in my relationship with God you are welcome to peruse my blog. I am very open about my spiritual journey and with my life in my posts.
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“God is clear on the matter.” – You ARE aware, I would certainly hope Emily Rose, that nowhere in your entire Bible does your god ever say anything – mostly anonymous, very fallible, superstitious, scientifically-ignorant Bronze and Iron Age men merely SAY that he did.
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God speaks to and through me all the time. God is not limited to your understanding. Holy Spirt can and does speak through people. And many people recorded the words of Jesus. The Word made flesh. He was with God and was God. If you want to know all that a human needs to know about God it can be known in the person of Jesus Christ. If you’re not interested in knowing God then that’s your prerogative. Knowing God is awesome though. Following Christ is sometimes incredibly hard and sometimes the most overwhelmingly magical and amazing journey. I know God; intimately. I am in the process of knowing God more and more. Because I have a personal intimate relationship I can hear God’s voice & recognize it. It’s a powerful thing to be connected to the source of life and agape love.
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Your children – if/should you have any, remain unbelievers until they are indoctrinated or accept this view of their own free will – which you steadfastly believe in.
Thus,they should be free to make such crucial life choices, as adults, otherwise you are simply indulging in sanctioned child abuse.
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“bought with the price by the precious blood of Jesus Christ”
“Excuse me sir, I have this bucket of blood here – just what kind of cow can I get for that?” At least Jack, of bean-stalk fame, got a handful of beans for his.
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“Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit” – Then I must be religious, because I’ve left offerings of DNA in temples in two countries.
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Emily, thanks for your comment. Am I to understand from your blog that you’re not actually married, and perhaps haven’t been since you converted to Christianity? I got the impression that you choose to be single. If you think this what you could expect from any Christian husband, I’m not surprised.
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That’s funny. I definitely am waiting for the man God picks for me; someone that also is commited to obedience to the Word of God. The husband is commanded to love his wife like Christ loved the church. Christ sacrificed his life for us, so that’s a pretty tall order. I do not plan on ever denying my husband access to my body. I was never a no girl prior to my salvation and subsequent celibacy, and I certainly won’t start being one once married.
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“The husband is commanded to love his wife like Christ loved the church.” – I don’t recall anywhere in the scriptures where Yeshua asked the church for sex when it had a headache.
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Who said anything about a headache? I thought we were finished with convo! God doesn’t force himself on anyone but to those that are surrendered to God you better believe you’ll be asked to do things that are painful, sometimes when you don’t even fully understand and certainly things that your flesh will try to rebel against. You don’t seem to get it. Men and women are created differently. You are leaving out the other side of the coin. The article said nothing about this mans wife having a headache. (And having a headache is a lousy excuse not to have sex with your husband in my opinion-what better way to get your mind off of your pain!) it’s addressing the issue of women failing to fulfill their marital duty to their husbands. That kind of selfishness leaves a man more open to temptation for starters, plus men often connect with the heart of a woman this way so its basically like closing your husband out of your heart. What kind of woman refuses her husband access to her body? To me that’s as primal a responsibility as breast feeding my child; sleepy, sick, hungry, headache, dying in bed even, if its in my power to pour myself out for my family, it should be my pleasure. Sex and submission and mutual surrender are beautiful, wonderful gifts that God gives. Christian woman should be very careful to select the man God directs them to marry. Because even if he is being inconsiderate it doesn’t give a Christian wife a free pass to play games and withhold to even the score. You don’t have to understand or agree or approve with what I say. If the article was about men behaving towards their wives as God commands I would just as vehemently be speaking the truth on that matter.
This isn’t a discussion about ridiculous demands for sex if a woman is decapacitated in some way that would make her unable.
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You appear intelligent, but your words belie any possibility of that. Anyone who could possibly see sex as a “duty,” is clearly someone from whom any intelligent person should maintain a safe distance. Possibly we should introduce you to Tiribulus – he strikes me as your perfect Christian-Mingle soulmate.
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Duty, as in responsibility. Although i am not now sexually active and don’t intend to be until I marry, I wasn’t always celibate and knowing myself as I do, and after having waited as long as I have, my husband won’t have to worry I will feel begrudging about physical intimacy.
For now I am called to be single. I relish in my singleness for now. I don’t date. For everything there is a season.
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Well, I must honestly say, Emily Rose, that my first thought, when I originally saw your avatar, was that you have an incredible body, and considering that, by your own admission, you haven’t always been a nun, I sincerely hope that you find someone who meets all of your criteria before at some point in the distant future – how can I phrase this so I don’t degrade the sophistication of VW’s blog – your bustline meets your kneecaps.
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I appreciate the compliment but time is no consequence for me. I don’t care about that superficial stuff. I’m 38. I breast fead my now 18 year old son, gravity has already taken hold as you say. Who cares? For starters my true beauty is what is inside my heart. I don’t plan on marrying a cad. Anyway, he won’t see me unclothed until our wedding night and since I wear great bras he’ll never suspect prior. < insert sinister laugh here. Yea, but seriously, really?!
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And by then it’s too late – great plan, I like it!
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Too late for what?
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To back out.
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I love these verses; just beautiful!
‘Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.’
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Those ARE nice thoughts, except for the misogynistic submission part – frankly, I prefer the advice of Lebanese poet, Kahlil Gibran:
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I love that poem as well. Look, submission is about order. It is to avoid strife and chaos with every disagreement that can’t be resolved through talking it out. Someone has to have the final say on a matter for petes sake! It is a hige responsibility before God that the man makes sure those final says are honoring to God and what is best for the family. I wouldnt want it, so I see why the modern man wants to throw that off on his wife. Once again, God isn’t going to pair me with a selfish jerk. I venture to guess, that with my personality and temerment, that its highly likely he’ll pair me with someone who I would be hard pressed to get him to assert his authority over me. There are also verses that insist mutual submission to each other.
A man would be a fool not to highly value his wife’s opinion on a matter. Women are uniquely designed to see things in situations that men often overlook. Some men don’t want to be in charge because they have been demasculinized by society, and/or domineering women, or trained poorly by their fathers (often absent) to shirk the responsibility of being the head of the house.
This argument is as ridiculous to me as someone insisting it was somehow crazy to expect my children to respect my authority. Society needs order to run properly as do families. So what some men have misused their authority in the past, do we as women act like those lawless rioters in bitter anger against others that had nothing to do with that. (To me this is what a lot of militant feminist act like. They are obviously bitter man haters) My son is one of the most incredible, hardworking, responsible, respectful, generous and courageous people I have ever known and ‘gasp’ I raised him with a firm hand. I didn’t let him get by with much, but at the same time I am helping him develop his full potential by helping him grow into himself and be who God created him to be. I allow him to correct me if I’m wrong, try to talk me into changing my mind if he disagrees with a decision I’ve made (he’s making most of his own now, but runs the important ones by me). It’s not the same as a marriage relationship of course but it proves the point that order and authority in families is important. I won’t hang around parents that don’t exercise authority over their children. It’s too painful to watch. Rebellious wives have no regard for the cross of Christ. He submitted, even to death by a cross, out of love and obedience. Not much gives me a rise, but Christian feminist women do. I have been a Christian 14 years and single and I have witnessed the way some women treat their husbands. It’s appalling. I don’t see how a man would want to sleep with a wife that bossed him around or had to have the final decision making power. Christian men are often some of the most generous and caring people and spouses. Many Christian women are as well. A godly couple, that honors God with their life and marriage, is a sight to behold. A beautiful, smooth running, powerhouse.
I’d gladly remain single before settling for less than Gods best. Right now I get to be all about the business of pleasing God. Not having a husband to please frees me up to enjoy God in a special way; wholy committed to our union. It’s great! But I believe in the future I will be called to serve God marriage too. Either way, serving God is the beats serving myself anyday.
Have a great day.
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“Someone has to have the final say on a matter for petes sake!” – Why? I like chocolate and you like vanilla – instead of me asserting authority over you and insisting we pick up a gallon of chocolate ice cream, which you dislike, why not reach a mutual agreement to get pistachio?
“I have been a Christian 14 years and single” – That’s a long time to go without ice cream. Loves me some ice cream!
“My son is one of the most incredible, hardworking, responsible, respectful, generous and courageous people I have ever known and ‘gasp’ I raised him with a firm hand.”
My son is one of the most incredible, hardworking, responsible, respectful, generous and courageous people I have ever known and ‘gasp’ I raised him with a single rule: “You can do anything you want to do, as long as you don’t hurt yourself or anyone else.”
He holds two Master’s Degrees, is the head of the Special Ed. Department in his school system, does all of the psychological testing for his school district, teaches classes of Special Needs children, and is a great father to two beautiful sons – raised as he was – who are also excelling at what they do.
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And I’m guessing you told him to do things he would prefer not to do while raising him? The point is kids turn out fine even when parents have the audacity of being the one in authority and occasionally having insist their children do things they would prefer not to do.
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Are you comparing raising a child with being a woman? Yes, children need guidance until they are mature enough to have good judgement. Full grown women should already have that maturity. I’m sure you don’t feel your future husband needs to rear you in the same way a child needs to be. Or maybe you do?
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You and I aren’t ever going to see eye to eye. I’m not going to explain myself anymore. I serve God. I strive to live by His word. He created men and women, He knows are purpose and how we function best. Husbands are the head of their wives as believers. This obviously doesn’t apply to you so why do you care? If you want to call evil what God has said is good that is between you and God. This conversation does not have anywhere else to go.
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Well, this is the first time I’ve conversed with you about it. If you don’t want to explain yourself why are you here? I care because I’ve lived it. It doesn’t always turn out so lovely. Women who are in the same situation as I was need help and understanding, not platitudes about the husband being the head of the wife.
No, it no longer applies to me as I am a deconvert from Christianity.
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Ruth, it turns out that Emily has been single since she converted. She hasn’t had any experience of the marriage format she’s supporting.
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Yeah, well, it sounds all romantic on paper…
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Choke
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Seriously, I see this being romanticized. The only thing missing is the cheesy novel cover.
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It’s the missing father figure syndrome wrapped up in Disney.
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Ruth, sounds romantic on paper? I don’t know, it’s the slave/master relationship and I can’t imagine that’s too romantic.
Methinks poor Emily Rose is living in some sort of fantasy world. Dream on, Emily. . the rest of us live in the real world. With real men. They treat us like real people, and some of them even rock!
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50 Shades of Grey.
Slave/master and considered romantic…
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Right. You and I agree on that. But, yes, on paper, if you’re a romantic at heart it does sound romantic. Lots of little girls dream of being treated like a princess and being the damsel in distress and being rescued by their knight in shining armor. This notion is dressed up like a fairy tale and living happily ever after. In practice it doesn’t flow quite so smoothly.
I get it, I really do. I wanted nothing more than for my ex husband to be the man who loved me like Christ loved the church. I wanted nothing more than to be the submissive wife, gladly submitting to the man who would protect me and love me and cherish me. The reality is, though, it doesn’t always work out so dreamily. And the admonition to submit to your husband? It isn’t just when he’s being “godly”. The admonition is to submit at ALL times. Not just when it’s easy.
Yeah, it doesn’t sound romantic at all to me. Especially given that the person who was supposed to protect me was the very person whose hands were wrapped firmly around my neck.
I have no qualms with a woman who wants to live in a relationship to a man and submit to him. That is her prerogative. But the decision to submit should be hers, not forced by her husband. Christian or not.
I have to say my life is infinitely better with a spouse who treats me as an equal and respects me – not like some little girl who needs a daddy.
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I guess I have to thank my mother, who worked outside the home when I was a kid (unlike most of my friends). She banged it into our heads that we had to get an education; that we had to be self-supportive. I also passed that on to my girls; all of them have careers and children. I CAN’T identify with this ‘submissive’ philosophy at all, I’m afraid. To me, anything less than an egalitarian relationship is just that – LESS THAN.
I was brought up to think, “And I’ll be damned if I’ll be the less than”. 🙂
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The thing is, within Christianity, the idea of this submission is an act of obedience to God moreso than the husband. And all good little Christians want to please God. It gets twisted and mangled to sound like submitting to your husband is a high calling and something to aspire to. It puts this submission on a pedestal and elevates it to a status to be attained.
Admittedly, some of the couples I know who have this kind of marriage it seems to work well for. There are men I can think of right now who are gentle and kind who would likely never demean their wives by lording their superior role as man over her – men who recognize that their wives making their own decisions and having dreams and desires of their own is not evil. I know them. They treat their marriages more like an egalitarian marriage than one of dom/sub. BUT there are a fair number of couples I know where the man is domineering and does lord it over his wife that she is to submit. It is probably an equal number of both. My point is this: Christianity does not somehow elevate the marriage relationship to make it bliss. There are no knights in shining armor. Marriage isn’t a one-size-fits-all mumu from the dollar store. It is nuanced and complex. It is a color photograph, not a black and white. What works for one doesn’t work for another.
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Ruth, you’re a wise woman.
It’s the ‘servile’ attitude – to anyone (god or man) – that gets under my skin.
Just. Can’t. Stand. It.
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I’ve explained quiet a bit. I have never spent so much time commenting on a WordPress post before; not even close. I just refuse to get into stife about it. It’s obvious that there are a lot of preconceived ideas and assumptions of motivations that no amount of explaining will touch. I just prefer not to stay in unproductive conversations, especially when it becomes apparent that people are angry and bitter. I don’t know anything about your past so I can’t really comment on it. Perhaps you were actually in an abusive situation. I too have been abused but I don’t and won’t allow it to push me away from God, the source of all good. God is the ultimate healer.
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You got that I’m bitter and angry? And you assume a reason for my disbelief? I think we all have our assumptions and preconceptions.
I asked you questions based on what you wrote. I don’t care to have strife over it either. If having a difference of opinions makes me someone you’d rather not converse with that is your prerogative.
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“And I’m guessing you told him to do things he would prefer not to do while raising him?” – Only when he did something that would hurt himself or someone else, and I pointed out, rationally, the reasons for my interference. By not being boxed in by a list of regulations, he was free to think for himself, and consider if his action was going to hurt himself or others, and in so doing, becoming self actualized, rather than merely responding to authority. He was free to explore his full potential, rather than follow the rules of men long dead for millennia.
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And one person saying no to sex when the other wants it is nothing like compromising on ice cream. Saying no is denying the other person, not compromising. I agree with the man. Sex should happen. Women shouldn’t block their husband from their bodies. Look, you can have your marriage or relationship however you want to have it. You aren’t a Christian. But followers of Christ are to live by a different standard than the world. In addition to sex there are numerous other decisions in marriage that a compromise is not an option. Obviously, look at the divorce rate. They weren’t nearly as high before the feminist movement. Again, live your life however you want. As I do mine. Have a nice day.
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Is there anywhere in the teachings of Jesus that makes you think this is what he would have taught? In teaching respect and love for one another, in teaching denying ourselves for others, do you think he would advise one person to have sex with another person when they didn’t want to, just to satisfy the lust of the other? A very odd conclusion to come to. Why are a man’s sexual desires (let’s not pretend it’s a need like hunger, he won’t die if he waits or uses his own hand) of higher value than any concern or need of a woman?
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“Women shouldn’t block their husband from their bodies.” – I wouldn’t want to have sex with a woman who wasn’t excited to have me. What kind of respect would I have for her if I did? The last thing I’d ever want to hear is, “Let me know when you’re finished –”
And trust me, sex with a woman who’s reading a book is highly overrated.
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@Emily Rose Lewis, you wrote: “Obviously, look at the divorce rate. They weren’t nearly as high before the feminist movement.” Yes, indeed. Before the feminist movement it was men who decided wether there be a divorce in the first place and as heads of their families they only agreed to it, if it pleased them. A very one-sided situation. Are you wishing that the western societies would return to that? However, divorces are far more frequent in the most religious societies within the western culture, than in the less religious, even though it is perfectly OK to the less religious folks and scorned upon by the more religious ones. Now, why do you suppose this is? Could it be, because the religious people jump into marriages more rapidly than the less religious people? Or perhaps, because the authority religion grants to the males is more prone to make men abusive?
For most of Christendoms history there could not be any sort of divorces. That is how those people interpreted the Bible? Were they wrong? If they were, why did no god ever appear to set them right about this notion? It was not because of their economics, because the Romans and the Nordic people had divorces before they were forced into Christianity and divorced women could support themselves even in those times and ages. Why did so many generations of Christians have to suffer for the misunderstanding of their religious experts? What sort of god lets such a vile misunderstanding cause such misery? A nonexistant god (as is typical to gods as they come), perhaps? Or simply a vile god? If those people had such a misunderstanding of the one divine rules as set in the Bible, what tells you, that the interpretation of the Bible by people you trust is any better?
@Ruth, no knights in shining armour? What am I to you then? 😉 No, really, I get it and totally agree with you.
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Serving God is the best And it beats serving myself, is what I was trying to say I think. Posting from this phone on other people’s comments isn’t as smooth as using my computer or tablet.
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I’ve had pre-marital sex with every woman I’ve ever married. Sadly, I was unable to marry every woman with who I had pre-marital sex, there are these silly laws —
Interestingly, I have heard Brandon use the term, “rebuke” on more than one occasion – makes you wonder what his wife’s and children’s lives are like.
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BGR, RE: “…my first wife had not one, but two affairs on me”
Going out on a limb here, but rough guess, I’d bet it’s because you’re a lousy lover. Did she by any chance go around humming, “♫I Can’t Get No Satisfaction♪“? That’s usually an early clue.
I’ll bet your second wife is a mealy-mouthed little church mouse. I feel sorry for her.
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Sorry – apparently in writing, “whom,” I struck the “m” key a little too lightly – you people know I appreciate good grammar – grampar, too.
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Frankly, BGR, my guess would be that you drove your wife into the bed of another man – no woman could live long with the proselytizing I see coming from you. What a pity that a man would trade a real life – with a home, a wife, maybe children – for an imaginary one.
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Yowza! The referenced post is actually quite disturbing.
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Hey, when I find a cow that gives good milk, that makes her worth twice the price!
(I’m probably gonna catch it for that –!)
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Men and women alike who distort Biblical truth by pulling it out of context and twisting it into what suits them are weak and immature. Those very same people who are so quick to bold mans “rights” are equally as fast at ignoring women’s and vice versa. They also are REAL quick to ignore the follow up verse… 1 Corinthians 7:6 But I am saying this more as a matter of permission and concession, not as a command or regulation. Versus 8 and 9 ain’t too bad either.
There IS a reason Paul said this. And, as with everything…it’s all about context.
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No it is not. Paul deals with that in verse 8.
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There is not a legitimant Bible commentator that would agree with your wrong interpretation. You don’t study or believe the Word of God do you? I’m guessing simply googled the verse after I posted it, because its clear you just made your own quick and inaccurate assumptions, based on your own opinion and what you wished it meant. You’re welcome to believe whatever you want. It doesn’t change the truth.
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Ahhhh…the old “loosing the argument so insulting must begin” routine!
Sorry, Emily. I don’t play those games. You cannot pull things out of context and/or rearrange the Word of God to suit your distortion so without getting called on it. That behavior is strongly condemned by Scripture. FYI…the correct way to study the Word is called “rightly dividing the Word of truth”
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In no way was I intending to insult you. If you took me telling the truth as an insult that is unfortunate but no ill will was intended.
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The concession he is referring to is to marry instead of staying single.
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Equally disturbing is the comment from Emily Rose -‘ …as a godly woman …”
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At the risk of sounding paradoxical, god save me from godly women!
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I’m glad some Christians find it disturbing too.
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I know it’s hard to believe but…Not all of us are batshit crazy.😄
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I agree – I’ve met a few.
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I’m off to work today but just HAD to add my .02 cents worth. I’m so happy with the commenters who turned this post into what is really is – a reason to guffaw!! You horse’s asses (who think women are possessions) are worthy of only that – derision.
They walk among us . . . .
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Actually, I can see that some people, men and women, might find this quite sexy. It is not that far from my tastes. Bringing God in just makes the domination more complete. There’s Emily, wanting to play these games. I wonder what she would think of Shiburi? If it were sort of Shinto, and so of the Devil, that would be such a shame!
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I will elaborate. I want a stone butch to play me like a harp. How wonderful if we could go to church and act out our games, and claim to be Godly and Biblical! We’re better than you, cos we do this!
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I wish that was all it is – people playing their sex games with a holy rule book. But I think this man and his ilk are truly concerning, because it sounds like they prey particularly on younger women. There’s a yuck factor beyond the outrage about treating women as possessions (which sadly is almost expected from numpties like this).
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To me, if he were serious, it would be a complete turn-off. I hope a woman treated in that way would be able to escape- though I know that batterers can manipulate their victims to blame themselves. Emily seems very keen on meeting a Powerful Man: she might be happy with such. Though I loathe such Christianity that says one narrow way of being male or female is the Only Righteous Way, as it rejects God’s good creation. “Male and female created he them”- we are all a bit of both, or we would be unable to talk to each other.
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after all, I like most men don’t prefer to have sex with my wife when she acts grumpy about it. But I realized that the sex still needs to occur, that sex is not about being in the mood, and it is not about feelings, it is about doing what is right.
What. The. Fuck?
This man should be removed from society, immediately.
And on a lighter, but equally serious note, saw this this morning and it sums up America perfectly
http://unpopular.tumblr.com/post/117636252343/squided-esofine-i-have-died-oh-my-god
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“What. The. Fuck?”
It seems like a good way for a guy to get his di*k bitten off by his wife, don’t you think?
(I swear Violet, that’s the last time I’m lowering your tone on this post).
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but what this cretin is proposing here is, in all essence, rape. Raping his wife.
You know what the funny part is, I’m sure he thinks Muslims (those in theocracies like Saudi Arabia) are primitive barbarians.
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I’m sure a “good christian woman” wouldn’t see it as rape. After all, she’s just pleasing GOD. *gag*
While I was a catholic, known for it’s patriarchy, I thank my lucky stars I didn’t suppress my brain enough to agree with this kind of doctrine. Honestly it’s like slavery…you purchase your wife and she’s your slave. It’s incomprehensible how anyone could agree with it.
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How would the law view this I wonder?
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In any normal country, as what it is: rape. There are no “degrees” of rape, regardless of how the Christian Right Wing (Republicans) want to believe there is.
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How would this sit based on the belief of someone like Emily Rose?
Even though she is giving up the goodies and accepts how could her husband’s action be prosecuted under the law?
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They won’t ever be because she, herself, doesn’t view it as rape and will never report it.
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If she doesn’t lodge a criminal complaint, then her husband is free to keep raping her until some third party steps in (a neighbour or friend) and lodges a complaint on her behalf, as she would be considered ‘incapacitated.”
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He tells her it’s her religious duty and she presumably relents. Whatever it is, I’m sure it’s not pleasant sex.
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In the U.S. each state has their own laws regarding marital rape, though it is illegal in all 50 states. Each state, however, treats the subject differently:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape_%28United_States_law%29
You can see the extreme differences in that wiki article. In some states coercion is illegal while in others it takes physical battery to qualify. Regardless of the law coercion is a form of rape and is disgusting on every level.
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You have some strange laws in your country.
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Indeed. In my own home state rape is defined as forced sex. Coercion isn’t addressed. It takes an act of force to constitute rape here married or not.
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Gotta’ love those “Christian Values” the right wing love to say made the US great!
That rape is bad, but this rape is fine 😦
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Well, of course if you read this man’s article and if you realize that this is preached from pulpits the country over in fundamentalist churches you really can see that is “Christian Values” at work. Coercion isn’t seen as rape between spouses. It is the woman’s obligation to perform. Simple as.
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Weird. Here in Brazil they still have a provision in the law for “crimes of passion.” You can toss your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/husband out a 30-floor window and be treated quite OK by the judge if you can prove you had been terribly provoked and had just momentarily lost your mind.
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Oh my. I’m fairly certain here that would at least be manslaughter. Getting pissed at your significant other is no excuse for bad behavior.
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Agreed. And they do get charged, just not punished in an appropriate way.
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What constitutes terribly provoked, I wonder?
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He burnt the toast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I’m not sure, were I he, that the next time around, with a new wife, I would ask that particular judge to perform the civil ceremony.
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“It is the woman’s obligation to perform.” – That’s why she gets the big bucks!
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I instinctively crossed my legs!
“(I swear Violet, that’s the last time I’m lowering your tone on this post)” – I wish I could say that. (no I don’t –)
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I was getting a bit bored of that, then the wee boy asked for the gun and it was all worthwhile!
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Emily Rose
So what if he (and you) think that viewing women like cows bought for milk are his property to be milked (screwed) at his will….
He blogged about it for all to see and I find the idea that a women is to be treated as property and like it, disgusting and rather bronze age.
I don’t care what scripture says, it’s not the Word of God and doesn’t offer valuable insights to how men and women should treat each other.
You can believe that if you want, but most of us have been there and done that with the whole gender roles/scripture thing and found it to be abusive, degrading, and ultimately untrue.
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I need a scrub brush and body safe bleach. Also a brain cleanser. Yuck.
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Sorry, I should have put a warning at the top. And a double warning not to click on the link and read more.
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I’ve spent the last 30 minutes trying to come up with something witty or snarky or intelligent to say. I’ve come up empty. Really, I’m just sad people hold such views.
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You should have asked me, I can always think of something snarky to say.
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Sad and concerned for the other half …
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Sometimes the average man in this type of thinking also thinks I worked my 40 now cater to me woman.
What if she also works her 40 and then has to come home and cater to you and then you want sex? My answer would be you have two hands.
Now come home and help me around the house be a TRUE partner and hell I’ll be fucking you until your cock falls off.
Most men who preach the kind of I own and I am the authority also seem to have the serve me now woman attitude. Even in marriage I don’t sign up to be your servant, your play toy or your drudge. I signed up to be your partner.
/shrug my two cents
I can’t stand the Christians who believe themselves the moral authority for the world. Wrote a short post about it yesterday. But as far as my body sure my partner owns it and I own his. So wouldn’t that stand to reason if I say hey put your penis away not to night that MY ownership is equally as valid as you saying but I want your vagina tonight? So who wins that one? I will every time if you wanted to push it.
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I have a worse one:
Stoning? Personally- Oh absolutely! Do I wish we would bring stoning back – as barbaric as it seems- it would most certainly put an end to foolish crimes. I do wish that we would impose the death Penalty- quickly and bring back corporal punishment to the classroom- but then again, if we would not “spare the rod” at home, then corporal punishment in the school would not be necessary.
You’re dying for the link! Admit it!
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Oh, go on! John Zande loves a good stoner.
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I love a stoned stoner…
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Permission to post?
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Be my guest. Now is the time: calling for stoning has become the fashionable thing among conservatives. Sort of a badge of quite how much you love God.
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Hey Violet, against my better judgement I went to cow guy’s blog and read around. If you have the stomach for it, read through his patriarchy category. It has some interesting views and I know how you like to lurk.
http://biblicalgenderroles.com/category/patriarchy/
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Carmen found a post indicating the author of the Biblical Gender Roles blog is a troll:
http://unsettledchristianity.com/a-word-of-caution-on-biblical-gender-roles/
Emily Rose Lewis and Insanity – any comments?
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I didn’t realize there were TWO of your commenters kissing his arse. ( read some of IB’s fawning on his site – egads. ) You might want to re-think your admiration, ladies.
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It might interest you, IB and Emily Rose Lewis, to know that there are other people sending in comments to that site with opposing viewpoints. Guess what? Their comments aren’t appearing on there – he’s censoring the comments to make it look like most people are endorsing his toxic viewpoints.
My guess is that he’s an MRA; he’s in like-minded company – with fundamentalists!
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