thoughts on submission
Submit. What does that look like? I don’t believe Christian women go into marriage thinking of ways to disrespect their husbands. But somehow we often find ourselves doing just that. This is our natural tendency and biggest temptation.
Submission goes hand in hand with respect. Respect is asking my husband before I make purchases and listening when he vetoes. It is placing his priorities for my time above my own. It is speaking respectfully to him and about him. Submission is following my husband’s lead even when I think he is wrong. It is giving him the reigns and trusting God for the outcomes. (Everyday Encounters)
1. If you believe your god God doesn’t have the inclination to intervene when children are starving or people are being tortured, why would you think he’d be inclined to spend his time in your petty little life giving your husband good decision making powers?
2. If you think your husband is making poor decisions, you’re making him an even bigger fool by allowing him to go ahead unchecked. That’s not respectful submission, it’s disrespectful foolishness.
3. When you are prioritising his time over yours, you are either feeding his arrogance (making him sin) or you are stopping him from treating you with the respect any human deserves (making him sin).
4. Your husband vetoes your purchases? Fair enough, you do seem on the daft side.
This is the first time I’ve posted from my phone. Let me know if it’s awful.
Your rebuttal has things pretty much covered, Violet. What amazes me is that this servile attitude seems to be touted by some as EMPOWERING. .. wtf???
Complete gullibility elevated to respectability. . the mind boggles.
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http://tiribulus.net/wordpress/?p=203
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Are you suggesting we follow your link, Trib and get the REAL story? 😉
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Once again.
You’ll get the biblical and hence Christian view there. Which you will most assuredly hate, but at least it will be the actually Christian view. You’ll never get that here.
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As we all know, Trib has THE christian truth. .. and speaks for all women. How comforting.
I, for one, would much rather read Violet’s intelligent, insightful commentary.
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Thanks! I did think Trib knew the Truth, till I was introduced to Born from Above, who clearly shows up Trib as the heretic he is.
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I’d tell you what their back-and-forth reminds me of, Violet, but my suggestion might ‘lower the tone’ on your blog.
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Go to the previous post on sex and let me know what’s amiss. I’ve quoted clear bible passages and the words of two highly respected church fathers. How can Christians still think I’m wrong?
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Christian truth? Are you Catholic? Can you trace your family history within the church? If not, you must realize you’re probably way off because Americans have a simplistic and bastardized interpretation of Christianity.
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There’s been a lot of hoopla about “submission ” lately. Not exactly sure why. Everyone submits to someone. If you’re an employee, you submit to your employer. Police submit to the police chief. Our various branches of government submit to the President. Even the folks at the top of the corporate ladder have stock holders they must submit to. Can you imagine the mess if the surgical nurse did not submit to the surgeon? Right down to the hissy fit I throw when the bagger at the local market gives me a nasty look when I make it clear he needs to submit to the way I want MY produce bagged. (I hate it when they put the apples on top of fresh herbs!) 😜
The idea that submission to another, whether individual or corporate, requires a person to check their brain at the door and somehow transform into nothing more than a mat for dirty boots, is ridiculous.
BTW, Tiribulus…I read the entry at the post you linked to. It is nice to see someone courageously speaking out about a topic so many men are so quick to distort beyond reason…and sanity.
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So, if I am to understand you correctly — you agree that a woman should submit to her husband because he has a penis.
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No.
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“Nonsense. I do not, nor have I ever submitted to my employer. We have an agreement, that I do my job and he pays me a salary as a recompensation for my lost time and according to my skill and the quality I do my work. The Police do not submit to the police chief. They have an agreement to trust the command structure set up according to skill, education, experience and seniority.”
Actually…bottom line…there’s no nonsense about it.
You’ve highlighted the point I was making about…The idea that submission to another, whether individual or corporate, requires a person to check their brain at the door and somehow transform into nothing more than a mat for dirty boots, is ridiculous.
You sound like a great employee to have, but if you do not do your job, do it incorrectly, or do not do as requested your employer will fire you. Bottom line…he/she is the ultimate authority. Granted, it is give and take but they can fire as well as hire.
If I have an employee who functions as you have outlined, that makes for a very good employee indeed. However if I have an employee who has checked their brain at the door, they aren’t going to be around for long as I will fire them and hire someone else to do the job.
The very phrase “command structure” implies a level of hierarchy with each level submitting to the directions, orders, commands of the one above it.
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Why would a marriage have a command structure? The Bible teaches that there is “Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female”. The Bible teaches that people are all equal. We no longer accept superiority of one race over another, we no longer accept that slaves should submit to slave owners. Why do some Christians continue to perpetuate needless inequalities between the sexes, when the Bible is so clear?
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Violet…first of all…I was not addressing marriage with the “command structure” comment. Context is everything.
As to your question on perpetuating inequalities…IMO…Because they’re off base.
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@Zgypsy, indeed, context is everything. The context of the topic post is marriage.
The fact that a boss has a right to fire a bad employee has nothing at all to do with any sort of submission (nor with a marriage as is the context of the topic), and I wonder why you brought it up. Any sane and capable worker will eventually seek other work, if they are faced with a boss that demands some sort of submission. A good boss directs the work and takes ultimate responsibility, but requires no submission from the employees. A good boss hires indipendent and capable workers and assigns jobs according to the capabilities of the individual workers. No job contract I have ever signed registered any sort of submission in them. Have you ever signed a contract, that said you are to submit to your boss? I do believe such would be illegal in my country.
Yes, command structure implies a hierarchy, but a hierarchy does not imply submission, rather a contract of varying levels of responsibilities between indipendent adults.
And as Violet noted command structures do not have anything to do with marriage. Do they?
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Nonsense. I do not, nor have I ever submitted to my employer. We have an agreement, that I do my job and he pays me a salary as a recompensation for my lost time and according to my skill and the quality I do my work. The Police do not submit to the police chief. They have an agreement to trust the command structure set up according to skill, education, experience and seniority.
When I served in the army, never did I submit to the officers fancy, but agreed to follow their commands, because it was necessary.
Personally I do not care, if people have what ever twisted submission games in the privacy of their bedrooms as long as they are consenting adults. However, when people try to push this cultural idea, that a person is obliged and has a responsibility to offer sex even when they do not feel like it, I do take issue.
Sexuality should be considered as a delicate matter that we do know it is between willing and consenting adults. Not something anybody can be forced, obliged, or coerced to.
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I agree, Raut – deferring is one thing, which is what most of us do when dealing with an authority in our lives. SUBMIT is something else entirely. . . and a dirty word, as far as I am concerned; associated with slave/master relationships. However, when children are brought up in the kind of environment put forward by this blogger, you can see how their thinking would be warped and stilted from the beginning. Truly horrifying –
http://www.imperfecthomemaker.com/2015/01/kids-speak-to-adults.html
This young woman has 6000 followers on Pinterest. It’s sickening.
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What a blithering moron! A child should be taught to never have an opinion or speak their mind? Sickening indeed.
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When you read these kinds of things, it makes you understand how there would be many people who will defend submission as something worthy of idolatry, though. If you’d been brought up by a mother like “Imperfect Homemaker”, how would you know any different? I think if you read the article, you’ll see that she rec’d so many negative comments that she shut the comments off. At least she got her fundamentalist bubble burst, but I doubt it had much effect on her mindset. (and, if I remember correctly, she’s got six little minds she’s indoctrinating)
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Yes, I saw that she’d had to make loads of changes as well. She was surprised that for example teaching kids to never say no to adults could be dangerous as well as stupid. She does seem genuinely surprised at the negative reactions so clearly in a bubble.
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It turned my stomach. It seems she was using a god as an authority to make her kids blindly obidient as she had not managed to earn respect from them herself. Sad really.
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Or, SHE is god’s replacement (and every other adult in their lives). . .either way, I felt like crying reading it. Yes, it certainly is sad to think that, in some circles, this kind of parenting is seen as praise-worthy.
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Yep. I like Violet too. Some of her stuff is way off but she has a unique ability to correctly point out some of the absurdities in “Christian” practices and beliefs that the church, as a whole, would do well to pay attention to and make some changes. IOW…She isn’t ALWAYS wrong. 😋I watched a movie not long ago “Believe Me” which was a lot like that too. Interestingly enough, I can’t get anyone else to watch it.
As for archaeopteryx1…Reminds me of a guy that used to be on a forum I helped moderate. Had a soft spot for him too. Great sense of humor and timing. If the guy wasn’t dead I’d swear it was him.
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zgypsy: “BTW, Tiribulus…I read the entry at the post you linked to. It is nice to see someone courageously speaking out about a topic so many men are so quick to distort beyond reason…and sanity.”
Well bless your heart dear. 🙂 I learned much of this the hard way. Truth be told? Men can and HAVE gotten this very wrong sometimes in church history and today as well. The general doctrine has been in place, but the practice has been quite uneven over the centuries.
The principles in that first piece in that link especially, are thoroughly biblical and I can prove it. That won’t make a bit if difference around here though. Why should it? This is an outpost of unbelief. They’re supposed to hate God’s truth. My point always is, blast away, but can we at least blast some reality once in a while? It does get wearisome watching clueless Google scholars attack either nonexistent or sub-orthodox views as if they are refuting Christianity.
However, make no mistake. I like these folks. Violet has been good to me here. Where it counts anyway. I was genuinely happy for her when the latest wisp-ling was born a little while back. I even got a soft spot fer ol infantile archaeopteryx1. Gotta remember. It ain’t you they hate. Not if yer doin right. It’s Christ in you and His truth. He promised they would. (pssst. Violet tries to be all tough, but I think she likes me too actually 😉 don’t tell her I said so though)
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So much hot air. I’m still waiting for your opinion on my post about the current Christian attitude towards sex. There are Bible and church father quotes to prove my point. Can you tell me why the Christians are objecting?
I read a great post by Clare Flourish today. It’s about self-righteous Christians, you should stop by there too.
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Exactly: blithering moron. I knew you’d eventually realize that at times, one must call a religious idiotic spade a religious idiotic spade 😉
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It’s about knowing when it’s appropriate to use these fine descriptive labels. Stick with me and I’ll show you how. 😀
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Great photo… Brazilian men = Poor decision makers
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Did you spot the tattoo? Classic!
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Did you notice all the cars and trucks with Deus e Fiel on them?
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Unfortunately we were only there 16 hours. We could have hung on for a later ongoing flight and made the most of it, but we were worried the volcano might play up and we’d be stuck for too long. I’m so pleased for you that you’re in such a godly country. 🙂
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Somehow I always manage to hit the wrong “reply” button! GRRR! (Banging head against wall) 😏
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A common problem with my theme apparently. I ignore all complaints. 🙂
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We noticed …. and hence follow your lead about ignoring complaints.
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Do you think it’s worth changing? I’m sure all themes have their idiosyncrasies, and I generally like the look of this one better than most.
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It’s fine. Don’t worry about it, Vi, one must just pay attention that’s all. No problems.
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Once you get the hang of the fact that comment reply button is below the comment it’s not too difficult. There’s even a handy dandy arrow pointing down to show you the way! 😀
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Well exactly! Maybe it’s people replying on the app. Comments are a bit confusing on my phone. Oh and old people like Ark.
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Lol. A few questions for the antagonist of God’s Word:
1. Are you married? I am. Happily. For 15 years. The proof is in the puddin’, dearie.
2. Are you a Christian?
3. Do you believe the Bible?
If any of these three answers is no, you really have no business speaking on this subject. You’re certainly entitled to your own opinions, but to speak as though Biblical truths are unnecessary and the people who believe them are stupid means absolutely nothing to those of us proving to the world that God’s ways are higher than ours and that, oh yeah, they work. Lol. Don’t link me to your false teaching and ignorant diatribes. I’m not interested in your absurd ranting about things you clearly have not the means to understand. I will not go into a battle of the wits with someone who is unarmed! Thanks! 😃
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Hi Lori, thanks for stopping by. I’m glad you’ve taken the time to read the post and all the comments, and give a thoughtful response. I don’t believe what you’ve written is a true reflection of how the Bible describes marriage. You have in no way described mutual submission, but depicted your role in the marriage as that of an inferior human being whose opinions don’t matter. Is that really what the character Jesus wanted for women?
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Actually, I am writing systematically through Colossians and this just so happened to be the verse I was on. Today I wrote on the husband’s duty. Just because I took the time to focus on the wife’s responsibility first (because the bible does) does not mean I am neglecting the husband’s. I simply did not write them together. If you read my article again, you will find that I did not say our opinions don’t matter or that we’re inferior, rather that there is an order and the Bible gives husbands leadership.
Are you happily married? If not, your opinion is the equivalent of a childless woman ranting about how to raise children. Absurd. No one should listen to you!
These are God’s words, not mine. He is the authority on human relationships, not you. If you have a problem with wives submitting to husband’s, take it up with him. 😊
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Various parts of the Bible writing to a specific culture a very long time ago gave leadership to men. You seem intent on avoiding the context. Do you still keep slaves? If you were being biblical about your life and chose to keep some, would you insist that they submit to you like it says in the Bible?
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Lol and you’re avoiding the question. I will not banter with you. You do not seek answers, you seek to be right and worship a self made God of your own making. I only participate in profitable exchanges. I do not have time for foolishness like this. I proved all that I said in our last discussion and at the end of the day you failed to submit to the plain truth. Good luck spewing your heresy. Please leave me out of it in the future. Thanks but no thanks.
Btw, are you married? Lol!
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Are you SOBER, Lori? lol!
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Oh yes, I forgot we’d had a conversation about gay marriage following one of Clare’s posts, where you couldn’t tell me where the Bible mentions anything resembling a long term committed homosexual relationship. But still insisted your god wouldn’t like it. I’m sorry you think my understanding of the Bible is heretical. It would be nice if more Christians could take the text seriously, rather than looking for verses to back up unreasonable, unloving and illogical prejudices.
Why are you so interested to know if I’m married? You seem incredibly competitive about it, as if marriage is something to strive for and the accumulation of years is to be admired. Are most of your Christian friends divorced?
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Lol I showed you several texts where God clearly condemns homosexuality of any kind. I can’t deal with your deceit! Please repent!
My point is that no one in their right mind takes marital advice from someone who does not have experience being happily married and proven their beliefs by their lives. If you have no witness you have no business pointing at those that do and saying their ways (which just so happen to be God’s ways) are wrong. That, friend, is the epitome of arrogance.
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You showed me the usual texts where the Bible condemns promiscuous homosexuality. I can deal with your deceit because I’ve encountered these blinkers before. Still nothing about long-term committed homosexual relationships. Why can’t you see the difference?
Carmen just told you she’s been happily married for 38 years, and rather than taking advice from her experience, you mock what you imagine her relationship to be. Rather odd. I’ve been in the same relationship since 2001. I look forward to hearing why I’m not worth listening to. 😀
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Which is precisely why I asked her if she was sober (lol!). No one would ask such ludicrous questions unless they were a) drunk or b) a complete ninny. So which is it Lori? lol!
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(Remember, this is the woman who isn’t allowed to buy anything unless her husband says so …)
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I’m sorry. Maybe you missed the texts that clearly say “men who practice homosexuality” and, specifically “those who practice homosexuality.” There is no disclaimer about what kid. Of relationships those are save that they are, listen now, “homosexual.” Im not sure why that’s not sinking in. Wait. Maybe it’s because you don’t want to believe that the Bible condemns homosexuality. It does. I’m sorry. Talk to the Lord. It isn’t my idea.
The truth is, I’m not looking for advice. I have the Word of God Almighty. His advice is quite enough for me and far better than people who do not honor him and refer to themselves as “heathens”.
Why would I listen to you if you are not married? Not following God’s order for intimate relationships but rather doing your own thing as you please? Makes absolutely no sense.
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“There is no disclaimer about what ki[n]d.” Well, we agree at last. It’s only promiscuous homosexuality.
Who said I’m not married? I am married. So is Carmen. And neither of us have to ask our husband before we buy things. It’s amazing how relationships of two equal partners can work!
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Ma’am, it does not say “promiscuous homosexuality.” It says homosexuality. You are that. Any and all homosexuality is against God’s order. He indicts all those who practice homosexuality- not just those who do it promiscuously. Please prove that from scripture. It is not there.
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I thought I’d posted this video link on your blog but I can’t find it. This explains the original words in more detail:
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I’m not interested in whatever you’re selling. Please do not link my blog again.
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I think you don’t understand how public blogs work. Your words are in a public space and if they inspire me to write a post, I have an obligation to give you due credit, or I would essentially be stealing your work. You can choose not to have pingbacks if you’re not comfortable being aware of people discussing your views, or you could have a private blog if you prefer. Apologies if confronting your beliefs has upset you, but I follow hundreds of blogs and don’t always remember the details of previous interactions when I lift text.
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So stop stealing and twisting my words and write your own. What I am not comfortable with is your dishonesty, arrogance, and misrepresentation of my God, His Word, and my words and beliefs.
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I didn’t twist your words. I copied them exactly as you published them. I have unfollowed you, as you requested.
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Violet, I see why you are so entertained by narrow-minded fundamentalists – there’s just no end to their wisdom! And they so enjoy spouting the evidence of their brainwashing! Quite a sport, I must say.
oh, I almost forgot! lol!!!
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Poor thing. I think her husband probably told her not to talk to people who don’t want her to submit. You can see the bravado crumble before your very eyes …
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I simply never could have lived with a woman who submitted to me. I can not help but to think that such dependence and voulnerability, would perhaps awoken in me some paternal feelings, but to consider such a person a companion in bed is sickening. And I can’t help the feeling, that guys who expect such from a grown woman have a very twisted view on adulthood. There seems even a sort of pedofiliac stinge in the entire idea. That the partner was totally emotionally dependant and under the thumb. It seems like such a man had issues with their own self respect and were compensating by having someone under their command or simply enjoyed a servant at their disposal. Or perhaps, most often it is just the cultural heritage that twists the people to think such is a natural order of things, never even giving it a second thought on how it reflects on morality and ethics. Then again, if you have no moral views of your own, but you are taught to submit to the ideals of the ancient society in the Bible (or some particular interpretation of them), there is very little objective ethical contemplation going on either.
Personally I could not give a rats ass for what the Bible says, exept as a curious source of collection of stories on successive primitive human societies in the ancient Levant. I seek the truth, and that much is what I have learned from the Bible.
As for the part about who has the say in anything, I think it is such a nonsense, that a person can not have a proper perspective on things like marriage, if they never have entered one. I have been over 20 years with the same woman, who for most of that time has also been my wife. Hence, I have the emic=insider view on the issue, but in cultural studies there also exists the etic=outsider view and it is recognized in science, that neither of these actually offers better information on cultural phenomenons, but rather that they offer different perspectives that put together and compared can yield somewhat objective information.
The world is full of stuff that I have no emic info, like for example flying an aeroplane, but that does not mean I am submitting to the pilot of a plane when I decide to take a trip with an aeroplane. Nor does it mean, that I should not have an opinion on the safety of the trip. But to have a sane view on taking that trip, I still need to base my view of it on at least remotely objective information.
If I trust the expertise of a pilot (whom I have never even met) to fly the plane, I suppose that must be much the same as religious people trust their god. The difference is in that I actually have somewhat objective information about how rigorously the pilots are chosen for their job and what the actual risk is in trusting a random pilot, that the trip ends safely, while the religious people only have these ancient books, that make claims about history and supernatural, that by any even remotely objective assesment are mere fairytales.
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@Lori
Well, I have been married for 30 years and if I don’t do as I’m told and do the darn dishes after dinner I am in the
godhouse … sorry, my dyslexia again, I mean. dog house.Also , If I don’t pull my weight around the house on a 50/50 basis plus, I don’t get tea and the TV remote is hidden.
I don’t do ironing though and my wife has been specially fitted for a made-to-measured ironing board.
I have read the bible – all of it and then some and I have never ever encountered anywhere that has established a god said a single frakking word.
And Yahweh,of course,was a Canaanite god,part of a pantheon. The Israelites adopted him. And he had a consort too. This was before the misogynist bloody Priests took over and banished her.
Probably to the kitchen or on all fours.
But being the scholarly Christian you must be , you know all this I’m sure?
Here, just in case you need a quick refreshher:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah#In_Israel_and_Judah
Oh, and don’t worry, it’s not in any way sinful so you won’t go blind reading it
Have fun.
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Wow, Arkenaten! Impressive. She has you trained well!
I must admit I hide the remote too but it’s not so I can get him to “pull his weight around the house”. 😜
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I actually hardly ever watch TV, to be honest. Soccer or cricket now and then. I find most TV drives me nuts these days and I would rather read.
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I’m so confused.
lorirodeheaver, first you said: “Are you happily married? If not, your opinion is the equivalent of a childless woman ranting about how to raise children. Absurd. No one should listen to you!”
But then you said, “These are God’s words, not mine. He is the authority on human relationships, not you. If you have a problem with wives submitting to husband’s, take it up with him.”
From my 50+ years of studying scripture, I recall that the Jesus of the Bible was an unmarried middle aged man with a human mother and a spirit father, with no siblings (according to some traditions), and who was childless. He never wrote a book, never started a company, never had a girlfriend, never had an investment or bank account, never voted or ran for political office, never drove a car, never did a lot of things.
According to your logic, he can’t tell us much about human relations, especially not marriage and parenting, nor about work, romance, finances, or politics. And under no circumstances should he take the wheel of your car, much less your life.
According to your logic, the only things anyone should take Jesus’ word on would be emigrating to Egypt, running away from parents, reading in a synagogue, pissing off the authorities, arguing with religious people (!), fishing with buddies, talking with drunks and sick people, getting pedicures from prostitutes, encouraging people when they’re down, hanging out with a bunch of men, cursing fig trees, making wine, and getting tortured.
That, “dearie”, comes from someone who has been a Christian longer than you have been alive and who had been married 22 years with four children and two grandchildren. I do not submit to my husband, nor does he submit to me… unless you count the times we get kinky while making love, which happens an above-average 3-5 times a week.
1 Corinthians 14:33 says that God is not the author of confusion, but of peace. It’s too bad he has so many followers who inspire more of the former and seem to know nothing about the latter. Your condescending, arrogant approach does nothing to win anyone’s heart or mind for the one thing you seem to hold most important in life and in eternity. If you are right, I feel sorry for you, because your God will hold you accountable for all the contemptible things you have said, the hateful ways you have said them, and the miserable way you have acted. It’s bad enough that I am losing faith in the God I have believed in and trusted my whole life. People like you – people who judge and belittle and push everyone away – make me want to run away as fast as possible just so I am not associated with idiots like you.
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hi skirtonavent, that is so well said, if you were in my neighbourhood, you would have two shots on me
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I’ll take you up on that, in my own girly way 😉
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXwtVviDzERZyWZGP5zZMfWB3tO-14yL3yiofq2r5xynifqwOlKA
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and you forgot one other thing, we can learn how to get crucified while your friends all ignore you from Jesus
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Wow! Fifteen years. I think we got ourselves an expert here. I wonder how my old heathen husband and I ever stayed married all these years ?(almost 38)
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Aw Carmen, there’s a guy on another thread trying to tell me about relationships. He’s been married a year. I can’t even begin to think how to reply. I feel sorry for these people. They have no real life experience and live in a bubble of these illogical beliefs, trying to make sense of life and relationships with a wonky framework. The more they insist their relationship is amazing and happy, the more you wonder what’s going on.
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What is your secret, Carmen? Do tell! Is it public disrespect for your husband? Insisting on your own way instead of submitting to his? Demanding his deference to you? Ruling the roost and emasculating him instead of encouraging his leadership? Idk. Somehow I think God’s ideas are better. Call me crazy but as long as I’m a Christian, I’ll stay with the Bible’s teaching and I’ll stick with his order. But it’s a free country and you are certainly free to choose another way. Hope its workin’ for yA!
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Lori, I think this comment shows you don’t understand at all how a normal relationship of equals works – no-one needs to be the role of some kind of dictator. You should try and investigate the possibilities in term of relationship models in more detail – I’m sure it would be helpful to you.
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I do not agree with you. You do not understand my position. You continually misrepresent me and the Bible. Please do not contact me again.
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Hi Lori, you sound upset. I understand what it’s like for some people when they can’t defend their position. I’m happy to unfollow you and wish you the best.
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I will not argue with someone who is not seeking truth. I defended my position very clearly in our last exchange and you refuse to believe and accept truth. I am not interested in being name called, insulted, misrepresented, and lied about. If you were honest and dealt in truth, I would debate with you. Because of of your arrogance, ignorance, and personal attacks I will not waste my time talking to an enemy of the cross. Thank you for unfollowing my blog. I do not need your misguided maligning of my words.
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“I will not argue with someone who is not seeking truth.”
I think you mean you don’t want to discuss things with anyone not subscribing to YOUR version of truth. Apologies I quipped you are daft, but I don’t think I insulted you anywhere else.
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Easy there Lori 🙂
Don’t let Violet and her crew get you angry. I’m pretty sure we’re on the same side. Of course the gay affirming and egalitarian hatchet jobs on the bible don’t pass the snicker test. You could fit the biblical knowledge here on a postage stamp (with room to spare), but you’re making me seem introverted and reserved and that takes some doing.
Yes, I’m preaching to myself. Let the word do it’s work. That’s up to God.
Nobody here is stupid. That is not their problem.
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Oh, and Lori. I know many, many christians. Thankfully, they are wonderful people who would be embarrassed by your comments on this blog, especially that list of questions posed above. I suggest you get some education, hang out with some stimulating people, and do some critical thinking.
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I bet they’re the same “Christians” who are ashamed of Jesus who will be told “away from me, I never knew you.” They are not MY words. They are the Bible’s!
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Which is what I’m telling you, Lori. Get your own words. Use your own head. Think for yourself – you’ll find it’s very empowering.
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carmen, that is so well said
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Mak, I find it so frustrating to listen to women prattle on about submission and how wonderful it is. It’s bad enough to have men dictating the terms of the hierarchy (based on an ancient mythological bully’s idea of a power structure), but to have to read women endorsing their slavish devotion – and somehow thinking it’s SUPERIOR – is more than I can stomach.
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they believe the book has special revelation and that is all that matters to them. I can’t begin to understand what a deformed intellect such is
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Lori, what should I have in my armory? I get into battles of wits with many heathens
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The Bible warns us not to throw pearls before swine. If someone genuinely has questions and wants to know what I believe and why, I am more than happy and thoroughly prepared to give a reason and an answer for all that I purport as truth. On the other hand, if it is obvious that an someone is an enemy of the cross seeking to discredit the Bible and its messengers and spread false ideas under a guise of spirituality and even Christianity, I will not waste my time arguing with them. My time is precious and there is a lost and dying world who I am called to share the gospel with. Bantering with arrogant fools is not within the sphere of my call. Our armor is made up of truth, scripture, prayer, faith, salvation, wisdom, and discernment. Jesus used his time wisely. That would be my goal if I were you.
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In that case you include Paul as a corruptor of the message of the one true god I suppose?
If wisdom is part of your armor, you must have it in short supply and in place of it you have a foul mouth.
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Submission goes hand in hand with respect. Respect is asking my husband before I make purchases and listening when he vetoes. It is placing his priorities for my time above my own. It is speaking respectfully to him and about him. Submission is following my husband’s lead even when I think he is wrong. It is giving him the reigns and trusting God for the outcomes.
I don’t think that submission has anything to do with respect. What is wrong with mutual respect and admiration? What is wrong with deferring to each other when making purchases? What is wrong with discussing plans and negotiating priorities together? What is wrong with telling my husband I think he is wrong about something and explaining my reasons why and discussing what to do about that? What if you follow your husband’s lead and the outcome is disastrous? What if your imaginary friend doesn’t intervene and fix it all up?
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What’s wrong with having an argument and going in a huff for a few days? She doesn’t know what she’s missing! 😀
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Okay, I’ll admit it. I’m submitting to my husband. I have fully submitted to his request that I not submit. He doesn’t get off on me infantilizing myself, nor him infantilizing me.
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