clarification for christian readers III
It seems I’m devoting an increasing proportion of my posts to the subject of religion, and specifically Christianity. I can see how some Christians may find it unusual that an atheist would choose to spend time in this manner, so I thought it would be helpful to clear up misconceptions that have arisen of late.
If you were on the couch, the good doc could ask a fair question: ‘Why do you fill your mind with that which you despise…………and devote such time and attention………..unless you know it to be true?’ (Colorstorm)
1. It’s not because I think it’s true. Not even deep down in a tiny crevice of my brain. I used to think it was true it when I was younger and I discovered as an adult that it simply doesn’t make sense – from a logical, historical or scientific point of view. I’m embarrassed that I used to think such obvious superstition could be real, and I feel sorry for other people who are indoctrinated from youth into believing such ridiculous and often harmful things.
It ain’t you they hate. Not if yer doin right. It’s Christ in you and His truth. He promised they would. (Tiribulus)
2. It’s not because I hate anyone. It’s because I know people who have been hurt by damaging religious belief systems. I know people who have struggled with their natural attraction urges because of the attitudes of Christians; I know people who have made damaging relationship decisions based on what they believe an imaginary god would want; I know women who would have lived much more fulfilling lives without twisted interpretations of an old book influencing their lives. Since I’ve started blogging I’ve ‘met’ many other people with many more horrifying stories from their involvement in religion. So the motivation to continue pointing out the ridiculous and the harmful in Christianity only intensifies.
You do not seek answers, you seek to be right and worship a self made God of your own making. (Person who doesn’t want to be linked to EVER AGAIN!)
3. It’s not because I think I have all the answers. One of the best things about blogging is reading other people’s work, getting involved in discussions and learning from other people’s experiences. I think the whole of Christianity makes no sense generally. But I also think there is a less harmful way to practice this religion, and it disturbs me that there is a trend towards twisting central themes and clear instructions in the Bible to suit a discriminatory and judgemental crowd of self-righteous believers – the true Pharisees of this day and age.
4. I do enjoy being right. Perhaps this is just the easiest arena for winning arguments.
Clarification for Christian Readers I
Clarification for Christian Readers II
Well stated, Vi! I’ve gotten my own share of, “you talk about god too much, you heathen, just get over it” comments (in real life). Honestly I spent my entire life ensconced in heavyweight catholic religion. I can’t believe people think I could just “get over it” and not have a thing to say on the topic now that I’ve deconverted. I’m guessing it’s because they want me to stay silent and not expose the ridiculousness that goes on in religion. Of course others think I’m possessed by Satan, telling lies. Oh well, I love to be called a goat these days…I’m thinking of officially adopting the nickname.
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I never was part of any religion as I am an atheist in the third generation and in my particular society, religion plays an ever diminishing and allready a very small part.
Most of the Christians in my country are very peacefull and do not push their religion on others, so much so are they kept in check by their own secularisation, and by the general secularisation of the society, that they have come to think the benefits of the secular society (like not burning heretics alive) are a result of their own particular religion. This sometimes makes them very resentfull of people who come from cultures where religions have more political and social power and are more violently acted out. Even to the extremes in wich the secular religious in my country are acting out their racistic fears of people from other religious cultures.
So, there is a potential harm even to the mildest forms of religiosity even though I prefer such over any fanatical zealotry. From my perspective religion hinders people from grasping reality as it is to evaluate life through these imaginary fairytale stories, that when engaged can be interpreted to support just about as tribal moralism as any.
Therefore, even as a total outsider, I consider myself justified in engaging the truth claims religions make. With logic and as objective as possible information one can get, anybody should be able to engage any subject. Most people are drawn into religions just by cultural heritage, and never learn about anything how to even evaluate these wild claims about imaginary entities beyond what we can objecively evaluate through scientific research. Should the evaluation of these cultural phenomenons and such wild claims be left on their devices? Why?
If the Theists themselves percieve themselves only able to evaluate things they have the insider view on, why on earth would they think that applies to anybody else? Or is it just about lashing out, in a childish attempt, to silence people whose counter arguments to their favourite fantasy, as part of their identity, they can not confront on any sensible level?
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Violet, when you mentioned Goats I could not resist this joke:
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Oh I wish I’d had a possessed by satan accusation or goat quote to add in there! That would have been a way to end the post with a flourish. I’d love to spend a year in a religious American community like that, for the experience. And then get the he’ll out!
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Vi, you’ve never been accused of being possessed by the devil or called a goat? Rather shocking, since you do have a way of driving christians mad. Though I’ve seen some of their comments and it’s not like they let you off easy, girl. Perhaps you should open a accolades page like Insanity, which is beyond funny. I’d open one myself, but all the comments I get are in real-life and there’s no way I can verify them here for the “evidence seekers.”
I used to get really sad about being called a goat, demon-possessed, and an instrument of satan…then I started hanging around atheists and they taught me how to laugh at it all. It’s one of the only reason I survived my deconversion.
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The primary reason that Colorstorm says this –
If you were on the couch, the good doc could ask a fair question: ‘Why do you fill your mind with that which you despise…………and devote such time and attention………..unless you know it to be true?’ (Colorstorm)
– is primarily as Vi says above: “I’m guessing it’s because they want me to stay silent and not expose the ridiculousness that goes on in religion.”
As long as I don’t go on CS’ blog and expose his absurdities (as much as I can with him deleting and censoring my comments), he is free to spout whatever nonsense he likes without fear of contradiction, whereas he knows now, when he is writing a post, that if he goes too far off the rails, I’m going to call him on it. I thereby reduce his influence on any who may be lurking – of course his die-hards remain immobile, but they’re not my concern, it’s the undecideds I’m concerned with.
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I’ve not visited his blog much. Is he really bad for censoring? Clear sign of losing the argument.
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Mostly me and John Zande – sometimes he edits Ark’s comments too.
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Me too.
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Sorry folks about CS’s comment above, I put it in blockquotes, but that seems not to have worked. Yay, WordPress!
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And the bad workman blames the perfectly fine tools once more….
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Snarky —
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That tickled me. Why doesn’t CS ask himself the same question?
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I wonder if he’ll pop over to answer that.
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Oh, this is a gem. She instead worships a god of someone elses own making.
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very well said
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Yeah, Christians are easy targets. However, others (say Buddhists) are far more difficult.
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what makes you think Buddhists are a more difficult target?
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Their belief system isn’t totally made up like Christianity is.
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Do Buddhists believe in reincarnation?
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Yes.
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Right. Not made up at all…
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Are they? Surely only because it’s outside my culture and I’m not so intimately acquainted with it.
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But yer not doin right. You support a “truth” that promotes hell and condones slavery, genocide, discrimination, and other antisocial behaviors.
Greg (Tiribulus) writes: “I sleep like a baby knowing that every time I hear about some gut wrenching blood curdling act of barbaric depravity that my Father God has from eternity seen fit to assign purpose to it that is PERFECTLY holy, righteous, just and good.
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Or the devil that the perfect, omniscient god created did it. 😉
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That last quote is sick. Where did he say that?
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Ratamacue, he said it here: https://violetwisp.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/christians-face-the-genocidal-tendencies-of-their-loving-god-god/
Scroll down about 11 posts @ 4:09 PM
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He did actually say that!? How could could I forget?
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Direct link, for reference:
What vile, immoral dreck! Beliefs like that can serve as a foundation for an imaginary friend causing real harm.
Thanks for the citation. 🙂
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I expect it’s paraphrasing his thought processes?
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I realised a long time ago that my morality only made sense if addressed only to me. Like Harry Enfield I saw it was ridiculous to go to other people to tell them how they should be living. And it is ridiculous to go to the Bible for a set of rules- gay bad, executions good, and how wives should be- especially as you do not necessarily understand the language with your cultural baggage. Did you see Rimonim’s lovely interpretation:
Re: “male and female he created them.” I read a Jewish interpretation I found really beautiful. The rabbi said this is a literary device (forget what it’s called) common to the writing of period, in which 2 extremes are named to imply the vast spectrum between them. The other example from early Genesis is, “there was evening and there was morning,” which conveys all the shades of light, every moment of wax and wane between sunsets. It certainly does not mean that god made evening and morning, period, without dawn, dusk, high noon, etc. So this rabbi said, “male and female” really means male and female and everything in between.
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That’s excellent! Will use that next time someone throw Adam and Steve at me. The cultural and linguistic chasm is so easily ignored by Christians.
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Two comments from today. The first from our stoner friend: I must inform you that you take the side of the God of the Bible or your worldview is reduced to absurdity…..The biblical God and His revealed word, the Bible and the impossibility of the contrary. Truth is that which corresponds to reality, Truth is absolute, not relative as in your worldview.
The second from me, as I was responding to a particularly arrogant person, expatiating on the wickedness of us queers: Mmm. So your opponents are “sinners” and “control freaks” who have entirely missed the message of the Bible. Watch us “come out of the woodwork”- like termites, perhaps, something less than human. I find this disturbing, and might find it disturbing even if I agreed with you. I am quite proud of that comment, because I have zeroed in on the reasons for not debating: he knows his opponents have nothing of value to say to him.
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“That’s excellent! Will use that next time someone throw Adam and Steve at me. The cultural and linguistic chasm is so easily ignored by Christians.”
I’ve been told by self proclaimed Christians that the King James Version of the Bible is the most accurate and perfect version possible and that every word is true and written by the god God. I thought this was amazing considering that I had spent many an illuminating hour with devout Hebrew literate Jews who told me of the discrepancies between what the Scriptures really say and what the English translations, especially the KJV say. I agree with you that if this is indeed another literary device, then it’s one more nail in the coffin of Biblical inerrancy.
Delightful!
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