what should a gay christian do?
I was wondering if you have a post that explicitly addresses how you believe Christians who experience same sex attractions should live their lives in terms of romance. I’d be interested to know if you think they should attempt a heterosexual marriage or just remain celibate.
I’ve left the above query on a few Christian blogs that are outspoken against homosexuality and gay marriage. I hope to get some answers here or from the authors directly on their blogs, in which case I’ll post links below for anyone interested.
Askthebigot: daughter of a mother who left a heterosexual marriage when the blogger was young and brought up by her mother and her lesbian partner. The blogger is now married to a preacher and campaigns against homosexual marriage.
Onebaddecisionawayfromhomelessness who tells gay people:
We speak good news, with those sweetest, deepest, most glorious words of the cross — the same words that God spoke us — “You’re wrong, and you’re loved.”
Insanitybytes: my dear blogging buddy who doesn’t like rainbows.
Statis Online: a blog designed to “bring you alternate viewpoints to what is provided on one-eyed and misleading websites” specifically about homosexuality from their Christian point of view.
No Laughing Matter Ministries: who tells fellow Christians:
In your own personal quest for religious freedom how many sinners have you pushed away from Christ? How many have you shoved in the direction of hell? Because you’re certainly not saving anyone from the fires of hell by refusing to bake them a cake or refusing to make them a tent.
ColorStorm: because he shines a holy light in dark corners and all atheists are obsessed with him.
Any other Christians who think homosexuality is a sin are invited to give their opinion. Should gay people force themselves to be celibate and attempt to ignore same sex attractions, or should they find a heterosexual willing to marry them? What is the Christian god’s solution to this design flaw?
Become an atheist?
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I’m sure that’s what many have concluded. But assuming it’s possible to be gay and be a Christian who believes homosexual love is a sin, I’d be interested to know what these bloggers think a person can do in terms of a romantic life. Insanity has promised a post.
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Haven’t a clue. I await input from others more eminently qualified.
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Well, there are Log Cabin Republicans (a gay Republican group) so anything is possible.
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That’s just rich gay men who pay Lesbians to build cabins- Apparently they’re good with axes 😛
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B’ahahahahaha!
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What they seem to promote is either abstinence or just “forging” a heterosexual relationship. You get to choose your definition for forging 😉
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Misread as “foraging” – that was weird.
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I posted this on your other entry, VW, because this one hadn’t yet shown up – it’s better off here – sorry for the confusion:
Speaking of moderation, VW, the only other blog that moderates my comments is I/B’s. Today, you posted this on her site:
Which I followed with this:
I’m posting it here just in case it never otherwise sees the light of day.
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Believe it or not, I/B DID let it go through! She said she’s been looking for my “OFF” switch for quite some time now. The kid’s clever, I’ll give her that.
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Arch you are evil!! LMAO
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Thank ya, thank ya verra much —
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Finally someone who knows how to accept a compliment! (Signed: Morticia Addams)
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You’re just lucky you didn’t speak French –!
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What should they do? Do as Jesus did… Have sex with boys, of course!
(Secret Gospel of Mark)
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That’s obviously regarding those +18 year old Thai boys. You know, the ones that say “sucky, sucky, fi dolla” when you’re walking down the street in Bangkok.
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I’ve never been to Thailand, but I was once offered a 14-year old Mexican girl for a similarly reasonable price. Yes, I passed.
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My goodness, you checked her id? How untrusting of you! 😛
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No, that’s how old her little brother, who made me the offer, told me she was.
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I KNEW I had read that somewhere, but I couldn’t recall where. Possibly in Ehrman’s Lost Christianities.
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Clement of Alexandria talks about it in the Mar Saba letter. He wasn’t happy with this Jesus.
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Interestingly, I just learned today (The New Testament, Bart Ehrman), that Mark 1:39-46) tells of Jesus encountering a leper who wanted J-man to heal him, and that J felt compassion. However, Ehrman points out, that Marcion also featured Mark’s gospel, and in it, Jesus was angry, not compassionate. Ehrman said it was far more likely that a Christian scribe would change angry to compassionate, than one would change compassionate to angry, thus the angry verse would seem to have been the original.
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I have friends who are gay. They are so much fun to be around. When I was a Christian, there was a guy in our study group who was gay. He was doing his utmost to not be gay. He even asked me out a few times. There was nothing fun about those dates. I felt sorry for him. He was tormented. He went to Reparative therapy, remained a committed Christian, and became celibate, but he never became heterosexual no matter how much he tried, how much he surrendered to god, no matter how much he studied and prayed. Eventually he plunged into suicidal depression, lost his successful landscaping business, and became disabled.
Have I said lately how much I hate conservative Christianity?
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None of them seem to pay any attention to what Jesus said
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No, but that tattoo on your forehead that reads, “I hate conservative Christianity” is a bit of a giveaway.
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You said when we first met. I think I have not forgotten
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Hell, why not just rewrite the Bible? It’s not like it would be the first time somebody did that.
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Here you go Violet, although why I would attempt to explain sexual morality to a bunch of people who seem to find it funny that a 14 yr old girl in Mexico was trying to sell her body and some boys in Thailand were offering oral sex for a few bucks, is totally beyond me, but maybe that’s the whole point. In the absence of sexual mores, we not only lose respect for ourselves, we loose respect for others, too.
Human dignity is a tough concept to explain to those who don’t believe we have higher selves in the first place, in fact it can’t be done. I can offer you no argument as to why that girl in Mexico and those boys in Thailand should not be selling sex, outside of the context that they were created in God’s image and are therefore entitled to be recognized as having inherent worth and value in His eyes.
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So, in your mind then, YHWH, placed these children in deplorable, miserable, abject poverty where their “bodies” are the only things of worth?
What creative excuse do you have for that?
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“So, in your mind then, YHWH, placed these children in deplorable, miserable, abject poverty where their “bodies” are the only things of worth?”
No Zande, we did that. We are without excuse. Then the sex tourists showed up and taught them that it was true.
God said our bodies were designed in His image, a temple for the Holy Spirit.
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No Zande, we did that
Ah, you want to play the creative alibi, I see. Yes, always with the excuses. An excuse for this and excuse for that… always excusing your concept of a god who is, in this scenario, either a hopeless voyeur for pain and misery, or simply an incompetent spirit who has lost control of his creation.
Which one is it, Insanity?
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“….always excusing your concept of a god who is, in this scenario, either a hopeless voyeur for pain and misery, or simply an incompetent spirit who has lost control of his creation.”
You speak of your own self, Zande. How poignant, you try to create God in your own image and wind up revealing yourself instead.
Don’t blame yourself for the world Zande, you are neither incompetent nor are you a voyeur for pain and misery.
God didn’t break the world, we did, and you know it. You simply cannot understand how God can sit by and watch it all happen, when you yourself can hardly stand it.
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God didn’t break the world, we did
Yep, there it is again… the alibi, the scapegoat, the inventive cover story. Doesn’t it bother you, Insanity, that you have continuously find imaginative excuses for this creature you think exists?
As the quite brilliant John Fiske noted:
“A scheme which permits thousands of generations to live and die in wretchedness cannot be absolved from the charge of awkwardness or malevolence … it is impossible to call that being Good who, existing prior to the phenomenal universe, and creating it out of the plenitude of infinite power and foreknowledge, endowed it with such properties that its material and moral development must inevitably be attended by the misery of untold millions of sentient creatures for whose existence their creator is ultimately alone responsible.”
So, Insanity, I remind you, my thesis has no excuse, no alibi, no creative cover story or imaginative theodicy.
So, you tell me, Insanity, which explanation for this world is more rational?
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“Doesn’t it bother you, Insanity, that you have continuously find imaginative excuses for this creature you think exists? ”
The creature is really you, Zande.
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Well, you see Insanity, the flaw in your argument there is I work to reduce actual suffering in this world, and if I saw a child being raped, I’d step in and stop that messed-up human being hurting the child… Something the creature you want to believe in never appears willing to do, and hence the need for the excuses you have always on the ready.
Isn’t this so?
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I’ve seen you attempt to invert John’s last three comments, turn them back on him rather than allow your god to take responsibility for his failures, but what I’m really hearing when you employ that unsuccessful tactic, is:
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Insanity, are you not going to release my comment on your post from Moderation? Are you censoring the uncomfortable and the awkward, like the less-than-adult Colorstorm censors the uncomfortable and the awkward? Are you censoring because to actually address the comment means, ultimately, offering up yet another creative excuse?
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“God said our bodies were designed in His image, a temple for the Holy Spirit.”
No, I/B, your god didn’t say that. In fact, in the entire Bible, your god never said ANYthing, anonymous, superstitious, scientifically-ignorant, Bronze and Iron Age men SAID that he said things. I’ve tried repeatedly to get that across to Colorstorm, but as he has no evidence to counter what I say, he buries my comments in Moderation.
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Maybe it is because they were created in gods image they sell sex. How do you know part of being godlike is to sell sex?
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That you can offer no moral argument for children not selling sex except for your religion just goes to show you have no moral compass.
Children shouldn’t be selling sex because it’s exploitation by others in a position of power. Because a child doesn’t have the tools and ability to make good judgements. That’s why 14 year olds don’t vote, drive or drink. They shouldn’t do it because they’re placing themselves in danger of disease and violence. No god of any kind is necessary to come to that conclusion.
As for the jokes, that’s called making light of an appalling situation. It doesn’t mean in any way that anyone here endorses child prostitution. Obviously.
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“That’s why 14 year olds don’t vote, drive or drink.” – And they can’t legally do any of those things in the State of Arkansas, one of the most Christian states in the US, either – BUT, they can legally have sex with any other consenting adult – 14 is the legal age of consent in that pious state. There’s probably a joke in there too, but hypocrisy isn’t very funny.
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“As for the jokes, that’s called making light of an appalling situation. It doesn’t mean in any way that anyone here endorses child prostitution. Obviously.”
I think the flippant manner was in bad taste, from both of you. Young people and even children are horrendously exploited and abused in Thailand by sex tourists and I don’t find it funny to make light of that situation. You remind me of boasting travel wank 20 year olds trying to impress people with the ‘funny’ things they’ve seen in ‘funny’ countries. And a 14 year girl being offered for sex by her brother to random strangers is tragic, not a light-hearted tale for blogging banter.
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You need to grow up and grow a sense of humour. Life is grim enough without having to infuse it with two dimensional thinking.
Take a lesson from the Jews in general, and Joan Rivers in particular, who have been able to take the worse of what can happen in life and make a joke about it.
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So you’re a Thai / Mexican child sex worker? You don’t get to make the jokes from the outside.
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Is that the rule? Who made that rule? I’ve heard a ton of gay jokes in my life. Most by non-gay people, many that were funny.
If you read what I actually wrote, in response to what Zande actually wrote, you’ll see what I was actually getting at. Try that again, and then get back to me.
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You read the chat between you and Arch, then get back to me. Foul.
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Only to an idiot who doesn’t understand sarcasm. One has to be a fool to think that anything that was said means either of us endorses child prostitution.
My first joke was relating to the bible. My second joke was relating to Arch.
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Poor taste is poor taste Mr Marvellous. For someone who can be wrong so often, you don’t like admitting your slips.
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Wrong so often? I’m not the ‘recovering’ Christian. Your thought process was religious before, and it’s religious now.
My mistake with Askthebigot was one made with the hope of achieving lgbt social progress in her community. That’s a political miscalculation.
Your mistakes are those of someone who isn’t entirely capable of processing information. There’s a difference.
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I’m gonna go for a walk now —
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Careful! A joke, irony or sarcasm might trip you on your walk and what then?
The dogcatchers of simple-mindedness will be lurking, just waiting with their quotes, cliches and handmade crochet nets (which they bought at the Edinburgh festival.)
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I was rather hoping I could simply slink out without further incurring her wrath, but if a “joke, irony or sarcasm” is the damning criteria, I’m dead meat any way I go, because I simply cannot open my mouth without one of the three popping out.
Example: on IB’s site, even after solemnly swearing no jokes, I mentioned that Freud was “slipping out of vogue” – now I could have said, “fading from vogue,” but my mind immediately went for the Freudian slip reference – I can’t help it, I’m doomed. Doomed, doomed, doomed.
YOU shuddup!
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I didn’t even make a joke, I just stated a fact – why do they always point to the guy with crumbs in his mustache everytime a cookie goes missing?
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It’s the problem with black and white thinking. They read everything literally.
My first joke was about Jesus hiring Thai escort boys. The absurdity of that notion alone should be enough of a clue that I don’t mean it literally.
Then you bring the issue back to reality and illustrate a real problem, in real Mexico, with real children. Obviously not a joke.
Anyway…
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It’s all IB’s fault – that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
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Wow, SO glad I feigned contrition! (Did I say that out loud?)
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“Here you go Violet, although why I would attempt to explain sexual morality to a bunch of people who seem to find it funny that a 14 yr old girl in Mexico was trying to sell her body and some boys in Thailand were offering oral sex for a few bucks, is totally beyond me”
Thanks Insanity, look forward to reading it. I have to agree that I cringed as I read down the comments. I shouldn’t post these types of things when I don’t have time to be on the ball with the comments. It’s got to be very off-putting for anyone considering commenting, and I am genuinely interested to explore these issues.
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Does this mean we’re about to get our comeuppance, Mummy, for misbehavin’ while your back was turned?
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We’re really ever so sorry and we’ll never, ever do it again —
(as long as you don’t turn your back —)
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Hey IB,
I think it’s priceless that you believe you’re in a superior moral position. While the comments about Thai boy prostitutes and Mexican girl prostitutes were callous and indifferent to their suffering, at least they didn’t include allusions to how morally wrong these children are for engaging in homosexual lovemaking and having sex outside wedlock for money.
The morality brush you paint with condemns them to an eternity of suffering for their behavior. If they died as a result of the execrable practice of human sex slavery, they would go to Hell by the lack of morality you laid forth in the post you linked to (by incorporation, of course, to your Christian and Biblical standards of living). You can pick the reason: they died because they didn’t know Jesus or because they were sinning when they perished.
So I’m left with the question: exactly what moral leg do you stand on to condemn racist and indifferent comments on victims of sex slavery? At its worst, those comments show a severe lack of empathy. But at least they don’t blame those children for what they do, and at least they don’t imply those children are bad people.
Regards,
SB
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I condemn no one nor was I the one filled with the self rightousness of mockery, ridicule, and laughter at the thought of child prostitutes forced into sex slavery.
Why do you suppose those men laughed, Sirius? It is because the horror of that sin is too painful to bear, the responsibility for what we have done to innocent children just hurts to much. The immorality of the world confuses us and breaks our heart, so we try to laugh it away.
“…exactly what moral leg do you stand on to condemn racist and indifferent comments on victims of sex slavery?”
God’s leg apparently? Without knowing those children were created in His image and therefore entitled to human dignity, I cannot offer you a moral argument for why it is wrong.
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“Without knowing those children were created in His image and therefore entitled to human dignity, I cannot offer you a moral argument for why it is wrong.”
Wow. Not even just sentient beings experiencing pain or suffering?
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Hey IB,
Unlike people who believe in divine morality, secular people do not need a divine excuse to justify the inherent worth of humanity. In fact, it’s quickly becoming a fundamental assumption upon which a lot of secular philosophy is based. No deity is needed to believe that people have value in and of themselves. It can simply just be.
Any time when I forget that principle, I can rely on others to remind me why it exists. And, if anyone violates that principle extremely enough, we have laws to protect others from such trespasses.
With that out of the way, I’d like to say that you’re right; in the worldview you described here and on the blog post you referenced above, you’re not the one doing the condemning to Hell.
It’s the loving deity you allege made those children in its image.
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“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ”
It does not say only Christians, only religious people, only people who… it say “all”. 🙂
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As I’m neither homosexual nor Christian I’m supremely unqualified to have an opinion on this matter. I have Christian friends and I have gay friends and as people, well… there is a reason I call them friends, alright? But I do have to add that IMNSHO it’s darned childish and vindictive to put a family out of an income and out of business out of revenge for not getting a cake. Honestly, all they’d have had to do was contact Ems – she probably makes better cakes anyway!
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“But I do have to add that IMNSHO it’s darned childish and vindictive to put a family out of an income and out of business out of revenge for not getting a cake.”
Do you think it’s been simple revenge in these cases? If I was getting married and someone refused to serve me because I have red hair and they think red hair is a sin (or I’m a witch as has happened in previous centuries), I would think it important to draw the discrimination to the attention of other people. People put themselves out of business when they treat others like lesser beings.
Apart from that, nice plug for Ark’s daughter. 🙂
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It’s one thing drawing attention to the discrimination. It’s quite another involving the state and suing them so they get fined out of an income.
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I’m just lurking enjoying the witty comments I’m reading here.😎
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Oh well, at least someone besides Arch finds them witty.
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How could they not?
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There’s no such thing as a christian. Most of these believers give themselves that name just to point fingers and judge and think because they have a god on their side, they can do and say what they want. Just because a person is gay, doesn’t mean he/she is a bad person and whatever they do with their lives, is up to them and has nothing to do with anyone else, and that goes for their sex life as well.
How these people can still believe in this fairytale of a ‘God’ is beyond me, and what pisses me off is the fact that only things that other people do are ‘sins’ according to them, but nothing they do is sinful. They have sex, don’t they? So, why is it sinful if two gay people have sex? Just because it’s not according to these ‘christians’ norm or society’s? To hell with society and their norm and the lies they keep reading in that ‘book’ of theirs and spreading it!
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Here, Sonel, read what “Eric” has to say – it’s the end of an era —
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Thanks Arch. 😀
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Arch, American culture, whatever it is seems to be the most delicate thing ever imagined. It is under attack from the atheists, evolutionists and now gays and it is ending. I hope it dies a quick death if the only thing it stands for are hate, hate and more hate and bigotry
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“Just because a person is gay, doesn’t mean he/she is a bad person and whatever they do with their lives, is up to them and has nothing to do with anyone else”
Absolutely. But it’s interesting to explore what avenues these Christians believe gay people have open to them. Either no sex at all or a marriage they can’t honestly commit to.
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These Christians needs more hobbies or sex lives for sure and stay out of other people’s business. 😀
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Just because an individual chooses to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior in their life, that does NOT mean they’ll never be tempted with sin anymore. In fact, there’s still a Devil (a.k.a. Satan, Lucifer, God of this World, etc.) lurking about just hoping you’ll believe his lie that Jesus is NOT really your Lord and Savior after you already accepted Him into your life.
God made us all creatures of Free Will, so which God will you choose to be Lord and Savior in YOUR life: the God of this World, or the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ?
On the same token, if you’re deeply entrenched in sin BEFORE you come to Jesus in repentance and forgiveness, that does NOT mean God’s going to perform some type of magic trick and immediately deliver you from your addiction to Cocaine, Alcohol, Homosexuality, Pornography, Stealing, Fornication, or whatever. Furthermore, Christians, or recent Christian converts, aren’t always immediately healed from Cancer, ALS, financial problems, broken marriages, etc.
God’s not in the Hocus Pocus magic business, He’s ONLY in the God business.
Now granted, God could DEFINITELY deliver an individual from any sin, disease, or problem — Cold Turkey — but that’s just not really the way He operates. Full deliverance from some sins, diseases, or problems may take days, weeks, months, years, decades, heck, it could even take a lifetime. When everything’s all said and done, it really doesn’t matter how many times a person falls on their backside, but rather how many times that person gets back up. But in the end, one way or another, that individual’s testimony is all going to be to God’s glory.
As with not being in the Hocus Pocus magic business, God’s also NOT in the “Quick Fixes” or the “Fire Insurance” business. God’s actually in the RELATIONSHIP business. If you acknowledge you’re entrenched in sin and further realize you need a Savior in your life, why wouldn’t you want to know what Jesus Christ is all about via prayer, reading and studying the Bible, and worshiping with other Christian believers? Those who simply confess Jesus Christ to be Lord and Savior in their life for an immediate “here and now Quick Fix”, usually just flake off and blow away like dust in the wind.
Why not get a Bible (or “Google”) and check out this verse of scripture for yourself — Romans 10:9-10 — and then just go from there? I hope and pray this helps answer your question(s), Violetwisp. If you or your fellow bloggers here wish to take this particular discussion further with me, please weigh-in on my WordPress blog, One Bad Decision Away From Homelessness. Take care and may God bless.
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Seriously? Did you decide what god is? Did he tell you in person? And btw, quoting something doesn’t make the quote true.
All Christians are infidels, Al-Qaeda Handbook, Ch. 1 page 2
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In the famous words of Justin Peters: “If you want to hear from God, then read the Bible; If you want to physically hear from God, then read the Bible out loud.”
Or another great quote on this very same topic: “God said it, that settles it, I believe it”.
See Mr. Merveilleux, if you choose to quote pure garbage on this blog like: the Al-Qaeda Handbook or the Koran, then you and I have absolutely no common ground to discuss the subject of homosexuality or homosexual marriages on a forum like this one. Personally, I happen to believe that the Holy Bible is the absolute uncompromising word of God — bar none!
BTW, Mr. Merveilleux, if Al-Qaeda and the Muslims had Sharia Law in the United States right now, wouldn’t homosexuals, along with people like Caitlyn Jenner, all be beheaded right about now? I believe they all would.
Other than that, I you and I have reached a deadlock on this subject.
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You mean like how Daech also kills Christians? What a ridiculous statement. What in the world do you think it proves?
What the bible says is only relevant to people who choose to believe in it. The same is true of the Koran or any other archaic and ignorant book of myths.
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I’ve heard the brothers Grimm wrote one that was fairly well received.
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Correct me if I’m wrong here, but isn’t the subject of this particular forum Thread supposed to be about Same Sex (Homosexual) marriages and how Christians are suppose to respond to them? Forgive me everybody if I’m a wee bit off base here.
I have absolutely no clue who the heck Daech is supposed to be, but I’m a little rusty on all the Cast of Characters cited in, the Al-Qaeda Handbook. Sorry about that.
I’ll make it a point today, Mr. Merveilleux, to pray for your Eternal Salvation right after I read my Bible, or what you refer to as an, “archaic and ignorant book of myths.” Take care anyway and may God bless.
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“I’ll make it a point today, Mr. Merveilleux, to pray for your Eternal Salvation right after I read my Bible”
Save your breath on praying for those of us who are well aware of what’s in your Bible.
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Wow, after a bizarre pseudonym (which I couldn’t even begin to pronounce) like that, along with an equally bizarre graphic, I sort of feel like I’m blogging here in Satan’s playground. If you choose not to heed to my words of wisdom — that’s cool. If anybody still honestly wants to discuss the Homosexual Marriage issue in the USA (which I assumed this forum Thread was supposed to be about), please log onto my WordPress forum: One Bad Decision Away From Homelessness. Take care and may God bless you all.
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“If you choose not to heed to my words of wisdom — that’s cool.”
“Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance… But behind this mask of ultraconfidence lies a fragile self-esteem that’s vulnerable to the slightest criticism.”
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20025568
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I KNOW!
When I first encountered it – N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ – I thought how totally bizarre! Someone named Victoria just took a bunch of symbols and threw them together, much like a tossed salad, much like, like – fzabierek! And then I made some insidious comment to that effect, and was instantly chastised severely and chagrined to learn, as I’m sure you will be, that carefully observed, the symbols actually form the word, “NeuroNotes” – look at it carefully, you’ll see what I mean.
I WOULD go into more detail, but you were on your way out, and I wouldn’t want to detain you —
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“and was instantly chastised severely”
LMAO — you are such a drama queen.
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I may be ever-so-slightly inclined toward exaggeration – little bit – very teeny, tiny, bit —
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LOL — just a wittle.
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Thanks for taking the time to give your input, fzabierek. I know you also left a reply to my request on your blog and will go over there to hopefully continue the discussion in a constructive manner.
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No thank you. When people offer to pray that’s nothing but a passive aggressive move designed to give the listener a false impression of kindness and/or that the speaker has some sort of connection to ‘the divine’.
Daech is the Islamic state.
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“I happen to believe that the Holy Bible is the absolute uncompromising word of God — bar none!”
I think you’re likely to reach a deadlock with most of us (but then there’s always Ruth, who tends to take in stray Christians), as I don’t think any of us really believes that your god says ANYthing in the Bible – anonymous, superstitious, scientifically-ignorant Bronze and Iron Age men SAID that he/she/it did, for whatever purposes.
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If I’m in a “deadlock” with the majority — if not everybody else — on this forum, that’s cool.
That’s one of the many reasons God Almighty created both Chocolate and Vanilla ice cream — because we all have different tastes and different viewpoints on different subjects. I don’t mean to “spook” you or anything like that, archaeopteryx1, but you can come on this forum under a stupid pseudonym and make stupid comments about God and the Bible — but God knows who YOU really are. You’re absolutely delusional and insane if you assume you can hide from Him.
One of these days, when you least expect it, you might find yourself in for a very rude awakening answering for some of the things you’re saying here in this forum (and probably elsewhere) to an entity a heck of a lot more powerful and influential than Yours Truly. Just sayin
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“…you can come on this forum under a stupid pseudonym…— but God knows who YOU really are.”
Does anyone really know who fzabierek REALLY is? Show of hands? Anyone? ANYone?
“One of these days, when you least expect it, you might find yourself in for a very rude awakening answering for some of the things you’re saying here in this forum (and probably elsewhere) to an entity a heck of a lot more powerful and influential than Yours Truly.”
You’d have to be more specific, as that could be almost anyone. You DO have the advantage over me, fzabierek, because you will die, just as I will, and rot, and your atoms scatter about the earth, never to reassemble again, but you will do so believing your opium dream, and you can take some degree of comfort from that.
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it appears to me that the measure of someone’s knowledge per fz… is the ease with which he/ she can read their names. Now, I am not usually quick to judge, but whose problem is it really when one can’t read neuronotes or the name of an old fossil?
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Fzabierek – (I’ll bet that’s easy for YOU to say!) – you have me totally confused. You say your Bible’s god isn’t in the magic business, yet didn’t he say, “Let there be light,” and there was light? Isn’t that magic? And did that happen all at once, or did it take a lifetime?
Aren’t your god and Jesus one and the same? If so, didn’t he rub some spit and dirt around in his hand and heal a blind man? Wasn’t that magic? And did that happen all at once, or did it take a lifetime?
You can hardly say he/she/it isn’t in the magic business, when your Bible is full of his magic tricks.
“…there’s still a Devil (a.k.a. Satan, Lucifer, God of this World, etc.) lurking about just hoping you’ll believe his lie that Jesus is NOT really your Lord and Savior after you already accepted Him into your life.”
So you have one invisible entity telling you the lie that another invisible entity is not really your savior – is that about the sum of it?
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Do I believe God can IMMEDIATELY heal a blind person, or deliver someone from Homosexuality? ABSOLUTELY!!! Does He usually do that IMMEDIATELY? Not really.
Not ALL miracles are the same. Not ALL healing is the same.
BTW, in a lot of the Biblical accounts of supernatural miracles and healing (i.e. Parting of the Red Sea, the Plagues of Egypt, Jesus healing the Blind, Jesus raising Lazurus from the Dead, Jesus walking on Water, etc.), many of those first-hand eyewitnesses DID NOT automatically turn their lives over to the Lord — if everybody is so infatuated with “Hocus Pocus magic” as YOU claim, then why do you suppose that was?
As far as simply viewing God and Satan as, a couple of “invisible entities” vying for your love and affection, YOU are a human being with Free Will — NOT a Robot. With that all said, which “invisible entity” are YOU going to choose to be Lord and Savior in YOUR life? The silence to your response to that question, archaeopteryx1, here is absolutely deafening.
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“…which ‘invisible entity’ are YOU going to choose to be Lord and Savior in YOUR life?”
That’s rather difficult to say, as Delos B. McGowan once put it, “The invisible and the non-existent look so very much alike.” – I think I’m going to have to go with, “None of the Above.” (PS – you can hardly call it “silence” until you’ve given me time to respond.)
“many of those first-hand eyewitnesses DID NOT automatically turn their lives over to the Lord — if everybody is so infatuated with ‘Hocus Pocus magic’ as YOU claim, then why do you suppose that was?”
Most likely because those are fictional stories, and the anonymous authors can tell them any way they like. The comic books are full of such things – do you REALLY believe that when Superman puts on a pair of horn-rimmed glasses, he becomes unrecognizable? “Where did he go? He was just here a minute ago! Clark, did you see where Superman went?“
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arch my friend, you have been around longer than me and you know English isn’t my first language, have you in your lifetime heard of natural miracles? Doesn’t the very definition of miracle remove it from the natural realm?
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Jesus finding me an awesome carpark in the pouring rain is a natural miracle.
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thanks John. Now I know a natural miracle
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It does sound like a contradiction in terms.
English isn’t my first language either, but once I saw that the language I invented as a baby wasn’t really catching on, I decided that my parent’s language might be the better choice.
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I also thought it was a contradiction in terms.
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“arch my friend, you have been around longer than me” – Don’t believe everything N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ tells you, Mak – I AM younger than dirt.
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I will remember that next time
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Response from Statis Online:
Hi Violetwisp. No, I don’t have a post that particularly addresses that question.
My thinking is that if the person is bisexual, then Biblical marriage may be a good idea. But if they are basically gay, then non-marriage and non-romance may be best.
This does raise questions on loneliness though. And I suspect that those who are single are best to share accommodation with others, and maintain good platonic friendships with others.
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Violetwisp in response to Statis Online:
“Interesting. Do you know anyone who has managed this? I can’t imagine someone with an average sex drive and longing for natural human partnership could have a stable life like that.”
stasisonline response:
“No, I don’t personally know anyone who has entirely managed it, but I know of several who try. EG Matt Moore, Joseph Samba, Julie Rogers. I guess part of the way of achieving it would be to avoid longing for a partner. If you consider how Catholic priests seem to achieve long-term singleness, you realise it can be done. But I bet it’s hard.”
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Catholic priests? Er, Catholic priests??
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I wonder what percentage have ever managed to remain celibate. A statistic only the god God is privy to …
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Says in this article 30% are screwing around like rabbits
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2009/10/celibacy-is-unnatural/
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How does that meme go… Homosexuality has been observed in over 1,500 species, yet nowhere in nature is to be found celibacy.
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Oooh, I need to remember that one!
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“ If you consider how Catholic priests seem to achieve long-term singleness, you realise it can be done.” – Yeah, but where are you going to find that many altar boys?
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Tom from Quiner’s Diner has said he will address this issue:
http://quinersdiner.com/2015/06/30/pope-francis-gay-marriage-discriminates-against-children/#comment-103465
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Quiner’s Diner has posted on this:
http://quinersdiner.com/2015/07/12/the-nature-of-sex
“The short answer is that we believe those with same sex attractions should remain celibate.”
But the longer post goes into useful detail.
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“When the procreative side of sex is removed — like it is in homosexual sex — it has become reduced to pleasure and the couple is only using each other.”
Wait, what? Did he even understand what he wrote? Am I to understand that he doesn’t make love to his wife? You know — like pleasure her as an act of love?
This guy needs to open a science book. Did he not knock up his wife, using her so he could pass on his genes?
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Good point. If there is a unifying aspect to sex they believe in, then it’s valid for homosexual sex too.
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Indeed. The Mayo Clinic states that 10 to 15 percent of couples in the United States are infertile. Should they remain celibate, too?
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Clearly. I mean, the thought of them using each other for pleasure is disgusting!
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Clearly. He should never, ever, ever have an orgasm unless it’s about procreating. Otherwise, he’s being selfish.
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No Laughing Matters Ministry has given this:
I have a friend who was a lesbian. She chose abstaining from romantic relationships & just focus on her relationship with Christ. She went a couple years without dating anyone. Women were throwing themselves at her during this time, so there was shortage of temptation.
One day she comes to me to announce that she’s getting married — to a guy!!!
When it comes to ANY sin abstaining from it is always my answer.
I can’t tell anyone to stop being gay, no more than anyone can tell me to stop being an adulterer. However, I am conscious of my own sin, and when temptation rises I run from it instead of engaging.
This is something we all should do. We all have our sins & we all sin differently. But the answer is the same: Abstain & focus on Christ.
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It’s been my experience that if you scratch your itch, it stops itching, just sayin’ —
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Thanks for sharing that Violet. Sadly, this is a form of Reparative (Conversion) Therapy, and it doesn’t work.
“These studies show that enduring change to an individual’s sexual orientation is uncommon,” the task force wrote in their 2009 report. The participants continued to report same-sex attractions after the conversion therapy, and were not significantly more attracted to the opposite gender.
These studies did find that conversion therapy could be harmful, however. Negative effects included “loss of sexual feeling, depression, suicidality and anxiety.”
http://www.livescience.com/25082-gay-conversion-therapy-facts.html
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Unsurprising. And awful that people attempt it, both for themselves and their heterosexual spouse.
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I would have to sum up this entire forum Thread with the often quoted comment from one of my favorite afternoon soap operas: “The TRUTH always hurts — Doesn’t it???”
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You watch soap operas? That explains a lot.
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Truth be told, I collect great quotes. In fact, I have a whole posting of that on my WordPress blog, ‘One Bad Decision Away From Homelessness’ titled either, “My Favorite Quotes”, or, “My All-Time Favorite Quotes”. Feel free to check it out some time. But the aforementioned quote I used here is VERY appropriate, don’t ya think?
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No.
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fzabiereck, here’s one of my favorite quotes:
In religion and politics people’s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.
Your belief that the Bible is the word of your god, Yahweh, was gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from religious authorities who had not examined for themselves, but had taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners.
Keep this in mind the next time you write a post about homosexuality: you are directly contributing to hate crimes and suicide. The latest FBI stats I could find were in 2013 showing 5,928 hate crime incidents (including death) in the U.S. that year. These hate crimes are now on the increase since the SC ruling.
➡ You are partly responsible.
For every homosexual suicide, due to depression caused by the willful ignorance of you and over anti-gay Christians,
➡ you are partly responsible.
According to the CDC, gay men are at the greatest risk for suicide attempts due to living in a hostile environment and the effects that this has on mental health.
Ignorance may be bliss for you, but your ignorance is not bliss for others. Now there’s a quote you can put on your blog. And while you;re at it, why don’t you quote those stats to your fellow “lovey, dovey” Christians.
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He’s only trying to gain readership for the proselytizing nonsense on his blog so he can tell himself he has done his duty to Jesus.
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Indeed. He thinks he’s supposedly saving his hide from hell, and his utterly self-serving actions come at a great cost to others.
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First of all, violetwisp initially posted on MY WordPress blog, ‘One Bad Decision Away From Homelessness‘ this past Saturday, which is way before I ever posted (or even knew) anything on this site — Please get your stupid facts straight!!!
Secondly, we can ONLY attain Eternal Salvation thru God’s grace — NOT by works, lest any man (or woman) should boast. In other words, you can’t “earn” or “buy” your way into Heaven. Why don’t you come back and talk to me, archaeopteryx1, AFTER you figure out what the heck you’re talking about?
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My facts ARE straight, I didn’t say anything about how you got here, my comment dealt with how you’re plastering your blog’s URL all over the place – anything not straight about that fact?
“Why don’t you come back and talk to me, archaeopteryx1, AFTER you figure out what the heck you’re talking about?”
Your beliefs are based only on what you’ve been told and what you’ve read in a book that was begun 3000 years ago and compiled by anonymous, superstitious, scientifically-ignorant, Bronze and Iron Age men. After you’ve learned all that I have about how, why, and by whom the Bible was written, why don’t YOU come back and talk to ME? Until then, I find you boring, infantile, and sadly uninformed.
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That favorite quote I posted was from Mark Twain.
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Yo, archaeopteryx1 dawg:
Did you flunk Reading Comprehension when you were in grade school, OR, did you fall off a swing when you were an infant and land on your head? You’re obviously not too bright. Here’s your direct quote from earlier today:
“He’s only trying to gain readership for the proselytizing nonsense on his blog so he can tell himself he has done his duty to Jesus.“
I NEVER said I was a Mormon or a Jehovah’s Witness — it’s impossible to “buy” or “earn” your way to Heaven. Again, get your stupid facts straight.
Secondly, violetwisp is now claiming, on a more recent post, that I’m part of something called, No Laughing Matter Ministry, yet another lie about me. Why not let the folks on this site check out my WordPress blog: One Bad Decision Away From Homelessness for themselves, and show me exactly where I ever stated I was a member of a Ministry by that name.
Lastly, please correct me if I’m wrong here, but isn’t the name of this forum Thread, “What Should A Gay Christian Do? This person violetwisp — who I assume is the Moderator of this site initially sought out MY viewpoint on this subject — NOT vice versa, like you’re trying to lie and insinuate here, archaeopteryx1.
As the old cliche goes, “Be careful what you wish (or ask) for, because it could very well come back and bite you in the backside.” I really didn’t need to come on this forum, join in on this clusterBLEEP of a discussion, and weigh-in with my viewpoints. Wouldn’t the more logic question be to violetwisp, on WHY he/she/it sought out my “expertise” on this subject???
Again, archaeopteryx1, come see me when you ever figure out what the heck you’re talking about.
Anxiously awaiting your response.
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Thanks for proving what I said about you spamming your site. I’ve seen Vi put a stop to spamming before, I’m surprised she hasn’t done it already.
If you have something to say, say it here, I don’t know of anyone here who would want to go to your site, add to your traffic, just to hear some more of your gibberish.
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Spamming my butt — there are 128 “hits” already on this Thread alone, sounds like it’s already generated quite a bit of really popular discussion for an Internet blog. And as far as the subject of “Same-Sex (or Homosexual) Marriage” goes, it’s currently everywhere you look in the U.S.A. — radio talk shows, TV talk shows, newspapers, magazines, bar rooms, breakfast diners, and, oh yeah, Internet blogs.
Wake up and smell the coffee, archaeopteryx1, oh, but I forgot — you’re way too much of a BOLD-FACE LIAR to publicly admit here on this forum that the recent Same-Sex Marriage decision by the Supreme Court is the biggest issue in the country right now, hence, the reason you probably got to hide behind a stupid pseudonym.
$64,000 Question: Is anybody really “SHOCKED” to hear/read what a devout Christian, who staunchly believes in the Holy Bible, would say about legalized homosexual marriages??? Seriously??? Why not go on Google, and type in the keywords: ‘homosexuality Bible God Christianity’, and you’ll probably come across the same type of comments from the same scriptures as I’ve already cited on this Thread.
#TheresNothingNewUnderTheSun #OneBadDecisionAwayFromHomelessness
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And still more spam –!
“$64,000 Question: Is anybody really ‘SHOCKED’ to hear/read what a devout Christian, who staunchly believes in the Holy Bible….” – No, but unlike you, most others express it intelligently. The fact that you “staunchly believe in the Holy Bible” just tells me how little you really know about it. You still live with your mom, right?
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Wrong yet again, archaeopteryx1 dawg, my mom’s been dead for over 12 years now. It’s obvious that you’ve got nothing intelligent to say about Same-Sex (homosexual) marriage to start throwing out crap like that. Who’s spamming now, sweetheart???
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“I’ve seen Vi put a stop to spamming before, I’m surprised she hasn’t done it already.”
I’ve never put a stop to anyone doing anything on my blog. Fzabierek was invited to comment on this subject and I’m grateful to her/him for taking the time to give an opinion. Arch, please remember not to be rude to any Christians who come over here to comment, or suggest they aren’t welcome.
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Thank you, violetwisp, I was just looking for a little respect around here.
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And YOU’RE going to admonish ME about being rude to your guests?
“Arch, please remember not to be rude to any Christians who come over here to comment, or suggest they aren’t welcome.”
“I’ve never put a stop to anyone doing anything on my blog.”
Vi, do you not see anything contradictory about those two statements? Did you invite him over to call me a “BOLD-FACE LIAR” and brain-damaged? No? Did you admonish him when he did? Perhaps you should advise your Christians not to be rude to me!
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And I didn’t suggest he wasn’t welcome, I suggested that his constant spamming of his blogsite was unwelcome, and if you’ve been blogging for any length of time, you should KNOW that that is considered bad form ANYwhere. When I had my own blog, I never mentioned the name of my site unless specifically asked, yet he managed to work it into his every comment.
I can’t believe you’re calling me down and leaving him free to say what he likes.
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I understand how you feel. But this post is specifically asking Christians to give their opinion on how gay Christians can live their lives. Fzabierek was personally invited to comment.
As for the personal insults, you’ve been giving and good as you’ve been getting, and I didn’t get involved until you suggested I might moderate his comments. If you recall with bornfromtheabove, I’m happy for Christians to leave links to their sites. It gives anyone interested the opportunity to take the discussion further.
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Yo archaeopteryx1 dawg:
As far as “spamming” my blog site, One Bad Decision Away From Homelessness goes, specifically, why wouldn’t you want the folks who frequent this forum to read and study ALL POSSIBLE VIEWPOINTS regarding, What Should A Gay Christian Do? Are you AFRAID perhaps that some of the folks here on this site might just come around to MY perspective of this topic and … start studying the Bible? Heaven forbid something like that would ever happen, but it sure sounds like that’s what you’re doing here.
Do you feel archaeopteryx1, that the people on this forum are too dumb to read my website and then draw their own conclusions for themselves about, What a Gay Christian Should Do?
I mean, this is the World Wide Web, there are literally millions of other websites you could be on right now — so why exactly are you here? Here’s a verse of Bible scripture that reminds me so much of YOU:
1 Corinthians 14:38 — But if any man (or woman) be ignorant, let him (or her) be ignorant.
See archaeopteryx1, scrolling up and down this particular forum Thread, YOU have offered nothing, ABSOLUTELY ZERO, to this particular discussion of, What Should A Gay Christian Do. My comments, on the other hand, have prompted dozens of responses from people on this site — including a lot of name-calling and LIES from yourself. Bottom Line here is, you seem to have nothing constructive to offer this discussion.
As far as Internet forums go, I think the word for people like you is “Troll”. Someone who has nothing, intellectually speaking, to offer the discussion at hand, so instead, they choose to try to change the subject of the Thread just to draw more attention to themselves. That seems to be archaeopteryx1 in a nutshell, no wonder you’ve got such a stupid pseudonym, you’re too much of a stupid little “Troll”. If I was Moderating this forum, I’d be much more inclined to throw a stupid, trouble-making Troll off my site before I ever got rid of a Spammer — buy hey, that’s just me.
BTW, since you asked me earlier if I still lived with my mom who’s been dead for more than 12 years now, what about YOU? Do you still live with your mommy and daddy, archaeopteryx1? The reason I ask, is because you appear to be posting on this forum at literally all hours of the day and night. You don’t appear to be working at a regular job. Or, if you’re not still mooching off your parents, maybe you’re mooching off the government for Welfare and Food Stamps. Just sayin
#JealousJealousJealous #OneBadDecisionAwayFromHomelessness #iWinYouLose
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fzabierek (One Bad Decision Away From Homelessness):
Personally, I believe the Biblical accounts of Sodom and Gomorrah, along with Romans, chapter 1, are quite clear about Homosexuality being a sin.
Has Modern Science ever proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that homosexuality is something that one “inherits biologically” as opposed to “freely choosing”? I don’t think so. It seems like for every homosexual who claims “they were born that way”, there are several others who say they were “merely experimenting with or exploring their sexuality”. Am I wrong?
I believe the initial posting on this particular Thread also establishes this as being a sinful choice.
If someday, I find out that my Biblical interpretation was wrong on homosexuality, I will immediately make a public apology for my error, but in nearly 40 years of studying the Bible, I haven’t found any concrete proof to indicate otherwise.
As for your initial question on how homosexual Christians are supposed to properly deal, romantically, in their personal lives — that’s a great question which I’m not sure I’ve got an easy answer to. I guess a lot has to do with just how committed and steadfast in their Christian faith they truly are. If they fall on their backside a few times, then they fall on their backside a few times.
If they initially and sincerely asked for Jesus Christ to be Lord and Savior in their lives, at some earlier point in time, I honestly believe in my heart of hearts that Jesus Christ will forgive that Christian homosexual over and over and over again — that’s what His dying on the Cross a little over 2000 years ago was all about.
He fully realizes that we’re just dust, and we’re all vulnerable to make mistakes in our lives. Heck, as for that list you cited earlier, why not replace homosexuals with: Rapists, Murderers, Cocaine addicts, Alcoholics, Thieves, Liars, Gamblers, Fornicators — NO SIN is too big for God’s forgiveness.
Paul the Apostle started off murdering Christians BEFORE he turned his life over to Jesus Christ, King David was both an adulterer and a murderer — there’s no doubt in my mind, whatsoever, that both Paul the Apostle and King David are in Heaven right now. WHY??? Because we serve a very, very, very Forgiving Lord and Savior — that’s why. In fact, aside from Jesus Christ, ALL the main characters of the Bible, which God used to promote His message were all formerly flawed, broken individuals.
Nobody’s perfect, violetwisp, and nobody knows that better than Jesus Christ.
As I mentioned in an earlier post from this morning, why don’t YOU read and apply this Biblical scripture (or “Google” it) — with a sincere and honest heart — into your life, Romans 10:9-10. What the heck, what have YOU got to lose?
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Yo, violetwisp dawg —
First of all, as we both know I NEVER posted this particular commentary on this site, I actually posted it last night on MY WordPress blog, ‘One Bad Decision Away From Homelessness‘, here’s the web address if any of your “peeps” want to check out the “initial posting”, or any other posting, of the Thread I’m referring to for themselves:
https://onebaddecisionawayfromhomelessness.wordpress.com/2015/06/27/will-god-almighty-get-the-last-word-on-americas-decision-to-impose-nationwide-gay-marriage-i-believe-he-will/
Lastly, what the heck is the, No Laughing Matter Ministry??? Scroll up and down my blog, I never said I belonged to a church with that name. I think you’re confusing me with yourself.
Just trying to keep it real here.
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Apologies, confused you with another blogger. I’ll change that.
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My guess is, you mistook him for someone with a higher-than-room-temperature I.Q.
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Gee, that’s so funny I forgot to laugh…but what does THAT have to do with, What Should A Gay Christian Do?
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“If someday, I find out that my Biblical interpretation was wrong on homosexuality, I will immediately make a public apology for my error, but in nearly 40 years of studying the Bible, I haven’t found any concrete proof to indicate otherwise.”
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(much more constructive 😀 )
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“(much more constructive 😀 )
Could that possibly be because the author of that comment – who clearly was FAR too intelligent to have been fzabierek as any discerning reader could immediately deduce – was not calling me a “BOLD-FACE LIAR” and brain-damaged? I tend to respond in the spirit of the comment I’m addressing.
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While I will, on occasion, turn the other cheek, it is not always the cheek on my face.
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Yo archaeopteryx1 dawg:
Why don’t we put this in CONTEXT, shall we? Here’s the statement you posted here yesterday, which I’m still waiting for some type of PROOF from YOU that I ever made this statement:
He’s only trying to gain readership for the proselytizing nonsense on his blog so he can tell himself he has done his duty to Jesus.
July 6, 2015 at 12:14 pm
Either prove that I ever made this statement, or admit that you blatantly LIED about it, or else I’ll call YOU out as a BOLD-FACE LIAR!!! Does that sound like a fairly reasonable deal?
#LiarLiarPantsOnFire
#OneBadDecisionAwayFromHomelessness
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VW – Einstein here is all yours —
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VW – Einstein here is all yours —
Wow, archaeopteryx1, thank you so much for proving my point here on this forum, you truly are a — BOLD-FACE LIAR! I wouldn’t have expected anything less from a stupid, little peon Troll, such as yourself. Enjoy
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“VW – Einstein here is all yours —”
Some people just have a … different way of expressing themselves. 😉
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Well, enjoy, VW dawg!
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This is the same god I am told is “all powerful” and “planned everything in my life” and remains “pure love and good”. So the only reasonable conclusions in this all powerful god who plans our entire lives planned for my to be gangraped and beaten nearly to death. Doesn’t sound like love or goodness to me.
But bring that up and suddenly the excuses come out. Well he doesn’t plan everything there is always Satan. I can’t get a straight answer for anything round here. /shrug
As for gays coming from fucked up homes? My home was the most loving heterosexual home known to mankind. My 6 brothers and sisters are all straight. I am not. being promiscuous? Yeah my rape and the endless names helped there but the fact I’m gay? Not at all. Abuse? nope none at home, sure my rape but I knew I was gay before then. I never crushed on boys, I seriously crushed on girls. the entire rant about gay people is way off. Maybe I am the exception except I know many gay people and the percentage of abuse pretty much parallels straight friends percentage wise.
Sad. /shrug
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They just throw any old rubbish into their arguments and agree with each other. It would be interesting to find the root of their insecurities, and discover whey they feel so vicious towards people existing, doing no harm.
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Pingback: what should a gay christian do? – part 2 | violetwisp
Inexhaustible Significance answered the question with this:
“Violetwisp–Thanks for asking the question–it’s an incredibly important one. But I don’t know how valuable any answer I could give would be. That’s kinda the point of this post–it seems there are already enough people telling strangers on the interwebs what to believe. While I do appreciate that you seem interested in what I believe, I’m not sure of the value of adding one more opinion to the mix.
Here’s the deal: We need less of strangers telling strangers what to believe, and desperately need more friends and families walking this journey with Jesus together.”
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