what should a gay christian do? – part 2
There are lots of Christians willing to share their understanding that homosexuality is a sin. They base this belief on a scattering of passages in the Bible that condemn certain types of promiscuous homosexual sex, as well as things like promiscuous heterosexual sex, people who drink or eat too much, or people who don’t give enough to the poor.¹
This type of Christian is adamant that their god would not be in favour of gay people enjoying the same kind of long-term committed relationship that heterosexual people enjoy. So, the question remains – how do they think a person who experiences exclusively same sex attractions should live their lives in terms of romantic love?
I asked this question to a few Christian bloggers and received the following suggestions.
Celibacy
“if they are basically gay, then non-marriage and non-romance may be best. This does raise questions on loneliness though. And I suspect that those who are single are best to share accommodation with others, and maintain good platonic friendships with others. … If you consider how Catholic priests seem to achieve long-term singleness, you realise it can be done.” Statis Online
“Since biblical times, that is precisely what we have been called to do, no matter how miserably we fail or how often or how many of us fall short. Marriage or celibacy, those have always been the options.” Insanitybytes
“When it comes to ANY sin abstaining from it is always my answer. I can’t tell anyone to stop being gay, no more than anyone can tell me to stop being an adulterer. However, I am conscious of my own sin, and when temptation rises I run from it instead of engaging.” rejie74
What these Christians fail to recognise, is that when heterosexual people choose to get married or stay celibate they are making an easy relationship choice. If I meet someone I love, I can get married. If I decide I don’t need sex, I can be celibate.
Let’s be honest about this – most people who ‘choose’ to be celibate as a heterosexual, do so because they either have a stunningly low sex drive, or they haven’t met anyone they want to have sex with who wants to have sex with them, and when they do meet someone they are attracted to will likely regret and recant.
Waiting
“Now granted, God could DEFINITELY deliver an individual from any sin, disease, or problem — Cold Turkey — but that’s just not really the way He operates. Full deliverance from some sins, diseases, or problems may take days, weeks, months, years, decades, heck, it could even take a lifetime.” fzabierek
The alternative for gay Christians living their lives with no hope of a long and fulfilling romantic relationship or any kind of sexual pleasure, is to wait for the god that created them to ‘cure’ them. Because you have ‘sinned’ by being created not being attracted to the opposite sex, apparently in the same way as you might sin by lying or committing adultery. But remember, delivery could take a lifetime.
Conclusion
Maybe it’s just me, but I can’t see that any of these Christians have offered a sensible suggestion for how gay Christians should live their lives in terms of romantic love. Anyone have any other suggestions?
Made a post about this with an alternative view from a Christian perspective, if you’re interested.
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Good post. I recommend all Christians read it.
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Have to agree with you, every one of them failed to provide a workable option.
And what about the 1,500 species which have demonstrated homosexual behaviour?
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I read an interesting article about that the other day. Only sheep and humans have actual homosexuals. The rest of the homosexual behaviour in our animal world is pick ‘n’ mix.
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150206-are-there-any-homosexual-animals
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“I tripped over a hedgehog and wound up, completely by accident your Honour, inside him! Believe me, no one was more surprised than me!!”
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And that’s relevant/funny because …? Honestly, Australians are a mystery. Throw in rum and we’re all lost! 😉
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We stopped using rum as our currency about 150 years ago, thank you very much.
And it’s relevant as per your, “The rest of the homosexual behaviour in our animal world is pick ‘n’ mix,” which I took to mean a missed shot in the dark. So to speak 😉
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Aaaaah, pick ‘n’ mix sexuality, not pick ‘n’ mix species. I fancy some rum. I think it might become my drink of choice when I dabble back in the world of alcohol. Mmmm mojito ….
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Get married and ignore the nonsense spouted by the bigots in the cult. Let them be celibate if they choose. Live your life to the fullest and find love where you may.
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If only it were that simple for the all the gay Christians out there. Many of them have horrendous struggles trying to reconcile their feelings with the nonsense spouted by their cult. The good news for them is it probably helps them see the light a lot faster than their heterosexual counterparts. 🙂
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Insanitybytes comments on ‘since biblical times’ are hilarious. Especially if we consider that until the 16th century ‘marriage’ was mostly of the common-law variety. In other words, people just moved in together: https://justmerveilleux.wordpress.com/2015/05/25/arguing-religion-at-face-value-and-why-its-a-waste-of-time/
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Aw, a lot of Insanitybytes’ comments are hilarious. She thinks history goes back to her rose-tinted understanding of the 1950s America, than straight to the Garden of Eden.
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The fact that homosexuality is considered an abomination in Leviticus is somewhat less relevant when we remember the other advice we get in Leviticus, Exodus etc Eating shell-fish is an abomination, working on the Sabbath requires the death penalty, selling your daughter into slavery is fine, wearing mixed fibre clothing is a no-no and so is growing more than one kind of seed in a paddock, as is shaving off your sideboards or even shaving with a razor. Eating with Egyptians is out and so is having haughty eyes. Forget the opinions of women commentators – they are not allowed to speak in Church or go about with their heads uncovered.
Now relax and go with your conscience.
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Agreed. Unfortunately for Christians, Paul pulled that anti-gay-sex sentiment through to the New Testament. Fortunately for them, he didn’t mention long-term relationships, but others seem hell-bent on ignoring that.
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I WOULD comment, but I’m afraid I might malign one of your Christians —
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That’s so thoughtful of you!
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Anyone have any other suggestions?”
Is that question rhetorical? Btw, have you seen this gem yet?
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Nice! I was waiting for the punch line. Poor people, I hope they can get help at Bigots Anon.
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Is it just me, or does the reduction of homosexual relationships to intercourse mark the fundamental view of these Christian recommendations? No long-term romantic relationship is solely about achieving orgasm (or, at least none I’ve ever been in).
There are many different ways people express love for each other, and yet somehow homosexual love is purely that of lovemaking? What about commitment, support, and other indicators of emotional attachment? Does that not exist? How do they know if they do not acknowledge the validity of testimony from people who have been in homosexual relationships?
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Granted, no long-term romantic relationship is solely about achieving orgasm. Generally Christians will agree with you on that. Christians tend to zoom in on the sexual element, because that is the element that is highlighted by the Bible. Personally, I think if two people of the same gender want to form a supportive relationship, that is non-sexual, there would be nothing unchristian about that, whether it be lifelong or otherwise, whether it be in the same accommodation or otherwise. But if that relationship is sexual, it then contravenes Biblical principles.
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I like this comment. It highlights just how ridiculous the whole argument is. Can you imagine your god being happy for two women to share their lives together in a supportive platonic relationship, but then recoiling in disgust because a female finger enters a vagina with pleasurous intent? What a small-minded creator you imagine!
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Well then Christians should support gay marriage. There’s nothing like sharing a home, having a mortgage, paying bills and doing chores to make a couple stop having sex.
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First thing’s first – you’re never going to ever experience how God plans to deliver you from homosexuality, or anything else, until you make Jesus Christ your personal Lord and Savior. Please check out: Romans 10:9-10 .
Secondly, when you pray for Jesus to come into your life, think RELATIONSHIP, don’t think of a MAGICAL QUICK FIX. You’re absolutely delusional if you assume that making Jesus the Lord and Savior in your life is going to be like a: magical, fairy tale, soap opera. You’re not going to become a Robot from this experience, you’re still very much a Creature of Free Will. Let’s get honest here, in any successful relationship or marriage there’s literally tons of compromises and forgiveness.
There’s no set BLUEPRINT or FORMULA, which God uses for miracles or healing. As crazy as this might sound, God will deal with you and your situation uniquely different from anybody else. Think of it as there are no two snowflakes, or blades of grass, or fingerprints, that are exactly the same. One homosexual might be fully delivered from their sin in a couple of days, another homosexual might not be fully delivered from their sin for a couple of years. Ditto with having cancer: some people are healed from it, while others die from it. In the end, it’ll all be to God’s glory.
Struggling with sin isn’t just limited to homosexuals – alcoholics, cocaine addicts, compulsive gamblers, pathological liars, fornicators, adulterers, thieves, murderers, heck, even seemingly “normal” people ALL struggle with sin. As I mentioned before on the other Thread in this same forum, with the exception of Jesus Christ, every single man and woman mentioned in the Bible sinned and fell short of the Glory of God, at some point, but God forgave a lot of them who came to Him with a meek and humble heart and, at least, tried their best to follow God’s Will.
If you happen to fall into sin, ask God for forgiveness and move on to do His Will. If a church ex-communicates you because of your sin, just find another church. It doesn’t matter how many times you fall on your backside, what REALLY matters is how many times you get back up and move on. One of the biggest attributes of God is that He’s very FORGIVING and is willing to forgive you over and over and over again. Don’t just take my word for it, check it out for yourselves.
Contrary to TV evangelist Joel Osteen’s best selling book, ‘Having Your Best Life Now’, for a born-again Christian, their “best life” will be AFTER they’re dead and buried and get to spend all eternity in Heaven with the Lord. God doesn’t love or respect the Christian martyrs who were recently beheaded by ISIS terrorists any less than Christians who live into their 90s or older. It’s all a matter of perspective with God.
Lastly, here’s some great words of wisdom and inspiration by Justin Peters: “If you want to hear from God, then read the Bible; if you want to hear from God audibly, then read the Bible out loud.”
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Can you explain what about homosexuality is bad? Obviously stealing, lying, cheating on your spouse, murdering etc all hurt other people. Why do you think your god would come to the conclusion that two adults in love, committing to spend their lives together is ‘bad’?
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As I stated in another Thread on this forum: God said it, that settles it, I believe it! Before anyone refers to me as either a: “hater” or “homophobe”, you might want to look up in the sky and say that to God Almighty. I didn’t write the book, ladies and gentlemen. Read it and weep.
1 Timothy 1:8-11
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity — Romans 1:18-32
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed — Genesis 19:1-17, 23-28
The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”
“No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”
But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”
“Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.
But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.
The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.”
So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters. He said, “Hurry and get out of this place, because the LORD is about to destroy the city!” But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.
With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished.”
When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the LORD was merciful to them. As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, “Flee for your lives! Don’t look back, and don’t stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!”…
…By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. But Lot’s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.
Early the next morning Abraham got up and returned to the place where he had stood before the LORD. He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.
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Can’t offer much to the post, other than to say little if anything is mentioned about lesbianism in the Old Testament. It is certainly not viewed in the same light as male homosexuality which is considered an abomination. I suspect this has as much to do with the perceived ”destruction of the seed”, which is also why male masturbation is forbidden.
This then creates an interesting conundrum for Jewish male homosexuals.
The photograph is smashing. What bird is that?
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Glad you asked about the bird because I forgot to check. Surprisingly, it’s a juvenile starling. I’ve got a few others coming up of them.
So is the only passage about lesbianism in the whole Bible that one in the NT where the women are forced by god to have sex with each other as a punishment? That’s an interesting story in itself.
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I suggest that most conservative Christians would not agree with the line;
“Because you have ‘sinned’ by being created not being attracted to the opposite sex, apparently in the same way as you might sin by lying or committing adultery.”
Most thinking Christians would say that it’s not a sin to not be attracted to the opposite sex. And it’s not a sin to be attracted to the same sex. The Bible views human beings as inherently flawed. The flaws being the tendency to sin. All human beings are inclined to sin, with sins including flaws such as pride (IE regarding yourself as superior to others), lust, hatred, jealousy. The Bible encourages Christians to try very hard to avoid sin, and portrays this goal as largely achievable. If someone is same-sex attracted, it doesn’t make sense that they must stop being same-sex attracted, given that such a goal is often impossible.
There is a distinction between the inclination to sin, planning to sin, and committing a sin. Consider the example of theft. The Bible regards human nature as kinda inherently selfish. IE anyone is a potential thief, even if the theft is small. Should people feel guilty about born with an inherent nature that inclines you to steal? Not really. It doesn’t make sense to be guilty about something you have no control over. It’s not a sin to be born that way. It’s regrettable, and you don’t want to celebrate having a flawed nature, but it’s just the way it is. However, if you begin entertaining thoughts of stealing, EG if you begin thinking about and planning to steal something, then that is sinful. Likewise, actually stealing something, is sinful. The same is true of numerous other sins. EG having a natural inclination to commit adultery, is not really sinful. But entertaining the possibility of seducing your neighbours spouse, is sinful, as is the act of actually committing adultery.
I think it’s logical that the same approach applies to homosexuality. IE if you are naturally attracted to members of the same sex, and you can’t help that, then surely it’s not sinful to experience those attractions. However, the Bible does repeatedly portray homosexual sex as out of bounds. So although a homosexual orientation may just be one of the many problematic temptations that human beings experience, and that we just have to accept, it seems to me that acting on those temptations is when the sin begins.
I hope me writing this is more helpful than unhelpful!
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I’ll ask you what I asked above:
Can you explain what about homosexuality is bad? Obviously stealing, lying, cheating on your spouse, murdering etc all hurt other people. Why do you think your god would come to the conclusion that two adults in love, committing to spend their lives together is ‘bad’?
By the way I’m finding your comments interesting because I think you’ve shifted on this since I read your posts about a year ago. Am I right? I seem to remember you much more vehemently disgusted by homosexuality and posting some quite horrible things. I could be wrong, I’ve got a terrible memory.
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As I kinda said in the post further up (07/11/15 at 12:32 pm), Im not sure that my God teaches that two adults in love, committing to spend their lives together, is ‘bad’. I don’t perceive a clear message in the Bible against that. As I wrote above, what the Bible opposes in this regard, is someone having sex with members of their own gender. It also portrays Christian marriage as inherently heterosexual. I don’t recall the Bible stating that you can’t love someone else, or that it’s generally sinful to commit to spending your life with someone else, if the relationship is non-sexual.
If however, you are asking why my God regards gay marriage and gay sex as unchristian, then my answer is that I don’t know. On this topic, I don’t think the Bible clearly tells us why. I can guess, but it’s just guesses.
You comment that other sins, e.g. lying, cheating etc hurt other people. It’s true that many sins do. But the first sin in the Bible, was of people eating an apple. That wouldnt have appeared particularly harmful to others. Other sins that do not appear directly harmful to others, include drunkiness and worshipping other gods. Not all sins are clearly harmful to others.
I say all this in context of discussion of Christian policy within Christian circles. Christians should not judge the actions of non-Christians, and I try not to.
Have I shifted my position? Not knowingly. Hopefully Ive matured for the better though.
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The thought that keeps coming back for me is “Whose business is it?” Just because Christians believe homo-sex is wrong and/or same-sex marriage is wrong, what possible difference does it make in their lives?
The only thing that Jesus said (who is the MAIN guy, not Paul) about relationships is to love one another.
If any person wants to call him/herself a follower of Christ (a “Christian”), then that person need do nothing else except follow the decrees that Jesus (not Paul) made and stop trying to tell other people how to run their lives.
If it bothers “you” so much, then pray to your god that all the same-sex lovers recognize the errors of their ways and turn to a more “holy life.” I’m sure “he” will do as you ask … just as Jesus said “he” would.
P.S. Someone very close to me (a male) prefers same sex relationships. He is a Christian and active in his church. He has chosen celibacy. I think it’s sad that he feels he must go through life “alone,” but it is his decision/business/life — not mine — so I don’t interfere. I just love him for who he is.
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Agreed. But I think Christians have to be honest about what’s in the Bible and recognise that in no place are long term homosexual relationships considered. It is all about promiscuous homosexual encounters. Those who continue bleating on about it being a sin don’t have a leg to stand on.
That’s very sad for your friend. Maybe if he falls in love he’ll re-evaluate his interpretation and move to a nicer church.
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But, Violet … why should believers care whether it’s a sin or not? It’s always been my understanding that “god” will mete out punishment for sin, so what business is it of theirs? In others words, why don’t they just let “him” take care of it?
I don’t see anywhere in the bible that it tells people to run/control other people’s lives. The keyword is always “pray” … not interfere. Besides, I think any Christian will be quick to admit that only Jesus can change lives.
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Great point, unfortunately it’s pick ‘n’ mix Christianity and there’s a verse to suit every possible reaction.
“But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”” 1 Corinthians 5:11-13
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I’ll add to that:
“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. “For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? “Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.” (Matthew 7:1-5)
Since there are no perfect Christians, if would behoove them to focus on their own personal logs.
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Indeed. But they’ll just throw this back at you:
“My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.” (James 5:19–20)
A verse to suit every mood, every action. Maybe I’ll issue a challenge!
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“Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.” Ecclesiastes 7:20
Therefore, they (Christians) are continually wandering from the truth, thus, disqualified to take the speck out of another’s eye.
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That’s a good one. So how are they to get rid of the sinners as commanded? You know what, it’s almost like a perfect deity didn’t write the book …
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I just love the word behoove Clipperty-clop, clipperty-clop;)
For Christians, when they behoove the horse, watch out for the Pale Rider.
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You are on a roll today, Ark.
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Would that be de-hoove? 😛
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Quite possibly. ”Giddy up,Trigger”
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Notice that most quoted scriptures they use are from Paul … not Jesus. So the question is … who are they following? Whose word is more valid?
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Notice that most quoted scriptures they use are from Paul … not Jesus. So the question is … who are they following? Whose word is more valid?
Wrong Nan — ALL 66 books of the Bible (100 percent of “The Book”) are God-inspired, NOT Paul the Apostle’s opinion or any other man’s opinion — 2 Timothy 3:16 and 2 Peter 1:20-21.
#GodSaidItThatSettlesItiBelieveIt
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Just a few things:
1) Are the collected writings commonly referred to as “the Bible” God’s speech or God inspired? If you feel it’s the latter, then your hashtag at the end is out of place.
2) Which version of the collected writings commonly referred to as “the Bible” are you saying is “The Book”? There are a bunch of different ones out there, some which draw off of Greek texts and some which draw off of Hebrew and Greek texts.
3) Are you aware that some versions of the collected writings commonly referred to as “the Bible” have more than 66 books?
4) Are you aware that your Gravatar has symbols used in pre-Christian European deity worship? How can you vouchsafe souls if you’re sending mixed messages from Satan?
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I switched my “Gravatar” to a more Americana look — do you like it? The one I had before this one was sort of given to me by WordPress.com, which I had absolutely no control over.
I also believe that God speech and God-inspired are basically the same thing. God the Father is Spirit, and He’s got no mouths but our mouths. As I quoted before on this forum from the great Justin Peters:
If you want to hear from God, then read the Bible. If you want to hear from God audibly, then read the Bible out loud.
Lastly, I definitely DO NOT BELIEVE in the “Christmas ornaments”, or the books which have been supposedly added many years later to the Bible. For example, I saw just before Easter a couple years back on the History Channel — The Gospel According to Judas Iscariot. In light of this guy being responsible for crucifying Jesus and being known as one of the biggest traitors in history, I honestly don’t think too much of Judas getting inspiration from God and having his own Gospel in the Bible.
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Just made a meme.
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I had to laugh at the ‘Celibacy’ notion. Let’s not say anything about those priests/pastors who molested the young boys and are still doing so.
If they’re gay and want to believe in the ‘christian’ crap and what’s in that book of theirs, I have no hope for them. They will always be judged no matter what they do. Because that is what most ‘christians’ do. They judge each and every one, even if you aren’t gay.
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Fzabierek, is this the same Ray Comfort who stated that the banana was an “atheists’ nightmare”, arguing that it displayed many user-friendly features that were evidence of intelligent design? You know he retracted that video, right? You want to know why? Because he learned that the banana is a result of artificial selection by humans, and that the wild banana is small and unpalatable
About the movie: It is targeted at Christians, a propaganda message that tells Christians they aren’t doing enough to marginalize and harass their LGBT friends and family, and they need to amp up the fear tactics. The fact that you are promoting this film says a lot about your character and lack of ethics.
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Sonel, as you may have realized, my comment which posted under you, was intended for fzabierek. The weird thing is — it said in bolded letters above the comment box that I was replying to fzabierek. *shrugs* I reposted. Worked the second time.
Btw, I agree with you. These types of Christians judge everyone (except themselves), no matter what your sexual orientation is. Hope you’ve had a nice weekend, my friend. 🙂
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No problem at all Victoria and yes, sometimes ‘Matt’ messes up. 😆
Stayed indoors as it suddenly became very cold here and of course, it messes with my fibro so even if I wanted to, I couldn’t do anything. Just watched movies and slept. So yeah, it was a nice weekend. Hope yours was good too. 😀 ♥
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I gladly would’ve shared this video with everybody on this forum had I known about it a week or two ago. Ray Comfort gives an EXCELLENT perspective on the “born gay vs. choice” argument by the homosexual community. Please check out this 15 minute video, as well as his new movie, ‘Audacity‘:
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Fzabierek, is this the same Ray Comfort who stated that the banana was an “atheists’ nightmare”, arguing that it displayed many user-friendly features that were evidence of intelligent design? You know he retracted that video, right? You want to know why? Because he learned that the banana is a result of artificial selection by humans, and that the wild banana is small and unpalatable
About the movie: It is targeted at Christians, a propaganda message that tells Christians they aren’t doing enough to marginalize and harass their LGBT friends and family, and they need to amp up the fear tactics. The fact that you are promoting this film says a lot about your character and lack of ethics.
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N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ on July 19, 2015 at 2:53 pm said:
Fzabierek, is this the same Ray Comfort who stated that the banana was an “atheists’ nightmare”, arguing that it displayed many user-friendly features that were evidence of intelligent design? You know he retracted that video, right? You want to know why? Because he learned that the banana is a result of artificial selection by humans, and that the wild banana is small and unpalatable
About the movie: It is targeted at Christians, a propaganda message that tells Christians they aren’t doing enough to marginalize and harass their LGBT friends and family, and they need to amp up the fear tactics. The fact that you are promoting this film says a lot about your character and lack of ethics.
Please forgive me that I’m not ‘up-to-speed’ on this banana thing-gy you’re referring to. What exactly was the name of Ray Comfort’s video that he supposedly retracted?
The Ray Comfort whom I’m referring to, produced a video on Evolution that got twice as many YouTube hits than atheist Carl Sagan got with any of his videos on this subject. Why do you suppose that is?
But as I said earlier on this forum, maybe even on this Thread, with the exception of Jesus Christ, every single man and woman mentioned in the Bible has fallen short of God’s glory, at one time or another. Are YOU perfect??? I seriously doubt it.
But specifically, what do you feel Ray Comfort has said which was inaccurate in THIS 15-minute video, promoting his new movie, Audacity, on the Biblical perspective to the homosexual lifestyle? Your blatant silence here to this question is absolutely deafening. If your mind is already made up about the subject of this forum Thread, (What Should a Gay Christian Do?) allow me to leave you with this one verse of scripture, which I feel is very relevant to you and your ilk:
But if any man (or woman) be ignorant, let him (or her) be ignorant. — 1 Corinthians 14:38
#GodSaidItThatSettlesItiBelieveIt
#AudacityMovie
#Ray Comfort
#LivingWatersMinistry
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You should be dreadfully embarrassed but you are not because you are so indoctrinated that you’ve lost the capacity to think critically. As far as your other comment goes, it’s nonsensical. You’ve been hornswaggled into believing that Yahweh (Jesus’ daddy), who is a made-up Iron Age war deity, is the God of the universe.
You seriously need to open books besides the Bible. Perhaps you just might learn a thing or two about reality. The only reason you believe in the Christian deity is because you have severe death anxiety and Christianity has convinced you that if you don’t bow to Yahweh, you’re destination is eternal hell.
Here’s a clue. You’re already living in hell, and you want us to join you. Misery loves company. Sorry bro. Been there, done that, burned the t-shirt.
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What does it matter, wether if homosexuality is due to nurture, nature or both? Either way, it causes no harm as such and thus is not wrong on any level. Driving a car is more harmfull than homosexuality, but the Bible says nothing about driving a car, drunk driving, or – not so surprizingly – about anything too modern for the men who wrote it to know about.
Even if homosexuality was a choise, is it not forgiven as easily as tattoos, or eating shellfish and pork? Yet, if it was a choise, then who would choose it, when it is scorned and has been down right dangerous to people because of such ridiculous laws as the ones in the Bible for ages?
I must admit I am not, nor have I ever been, a Christian nor am I gay, so my perspective is that of an outsider. I would expect, that if the god of the Christians is just, as they themselves keep telling me, such a god would not condemn something that is not harmfull and that the passages in the Bible where homosexuality is condemned are mere cultural references of the men who wrote it and not directly derived from any gods. Though, that naturally raises the question wether if the entire book is just cultural reference from those men who wrote it and claimed they were inspired by a divinity. Does it not?
However, if a person thinks the book is letter to letter according to what this god character in it wanted to convey to humans, then that person has to come to the conclusion, that this is an evil entity, that wants people to do violence upon other people for something that is not harmfull, like among things like being born into a wrong tribe or people, also equally non-harmfull thing, such as homosexuality. Worshipping such a divinity is bowing down to might makes right even at the very best of excuses I’ve ever heard.
According to the Bible, male homosexuals caught in the act should be stoned to death, but it says absolutely nothing about lesbians. So, is girl on girl action ok by this god? Who is following the Bible literally, if they are not stoning male homosexuals and unruly kids to death? That would be really vile, and it was vile when people in good faith thought, that this is what their god expected them to do. Was it not?
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Here’s the difference between this “banana argument” and this new homosexual documentary video, Audacity — in the banana video, Ray Comfort is admiring the characteristics of this fruit in much the same fashion as people admire God’s creation(s) such as the: ocean, mountains, animals, butterflies, Fall foliage, etc. Lions, tigers, cobras, and Great White Sharks are extremely beautiful animals — they’re also extremely deadly. So what the heck does that prove? Why doesn’t this atheist scientist, Richard Dawkins take Mr. Comfort up on his 30-minute, public debate offer for $20,000? Sure sounds to me like YOUR professor, Mr. Dawkins is running a little scared (or chicken) right now of Mr. Comfort — don’t ya think?
In the Audacity video, Comfort is citing Biblical scriptures to substantiate his arguments on homosexuality and the whole notion on whether these folks are “born that way” or engage in this practice by choice. If Comfort is accurately interpreting the Bible — which I believe he is, then the onus of blame for any criticism of the homosexual lifestyle should be placed on God Almighty and not Ray Comfort.
The whole premise of this forum Thread is sort flawed since the term, “Gay Christian” is actually an oxymoron. This person, violetwisp, is attempting to neatly tie two, extremely polar-opposite lifestyles into just one. It just doesn’t work that way. That’s like calling someone an “Alcoholic Christian” or a “Fornicating Christian” — it makes no sense whatsoever.
If a homosexual honestly and sincerely loves the Lord and wants to follow His Will, then they’ll repent of their sins, and do anything and everything possible to rid themselves of that lifestyle. As with most sins, it’s a struggle and it ain’t easy but with God’s help and forgiving nature, salvation is definitely available and possible. The ONLY way a homosexual is ever going to find out if God will work in their personal life is to seek Him out and actually give Him a try. Reading thru Romans 10:9-10 would be a good start in the right direction. What the heck?
I guess if you’re like most of the folks participating on this particular forum, it seems like your mind is already made up on the subject of homosexuality. If that’s the case, then why would you even bother to weigh-in on a forum Thread called, What Should a Gay Christian Do? For people like that, it just sounds like a total waste of time.
#GodSaidItThatSettlesItiBelieveIt
#AudacityMovie
#RayComfort
#LivingWatersMinistry
#TheWayOfTheMaster
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Dawkins considered playing along if Comfort donated $100,000 to the RDF (Richard Dawkins Foundation), a charity dedicated to Reason and Science, but Comfort has not taken him up on the counter offer. YECs have simply never taken the time to educate themselves. Comfort is no exception.
They have the attitude, “God said it, I believe it, that settles it.” Like you, they are the ones that literalist clergy and evangelists love to have following them. Why? Because your blind loyalty keeps the coffers full. You’ve been duped, and they are laughing all the way to the bank.
You wrote: “I guess if you’re like most of the folks participating on this particular forum, it seems like your mind is already made up on the subject of homosexuality. If that’s the case, then why would you even bother to weigh-in on a forum Thread called, What Should a Gay Christian Do? For people like that, it just sounds like a total waste of time.”
Because people like you, fzabierek, won’t let them live their lives in peace. Your kind are busy bodies and intrusive, but your days are numbered. By Christian leaders’ own estimates, approximately 3500 people a day are leaving and hundreds of churches close every single year for lack of funding and attendance. You’ll either learn to adapt to being inclusive, humane and ethical, or your kind will die out.
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Fzabierek look, military intelligence may be an oxymoron, but a gay Christian is not. There are loads of self proclaimed and quite sincere Christian homosexuals. Are there not? Who is the better interpreter of their identity and conviction than they themselves? You? Are they answerable on this issue that does no harm to anyone as such to anyone else exept their god? On same logic your own Christianity could be challenged and even proclaimed to be an oxymoron, because a true Christian (according the Bible) could be expected to sell all their property and give all their money to the poor. Have you achieved this?
Have you eaten pork? It is forbidden by the same gods as those that forbid homosexuality between men. You do realize your resent towards homosexuality could and is constantly deemed by other Christians as something how a Christian should NOT behave? But do they have the right to demand, that makes your sort of Christianity an oxymoron? You and they can say what ever you want. Yet, nobody else has the ethical justification to claim your sort of Christianity is an oxymoron any more than you have the justification to claim on any gay Christian to be an oxymoron. Do you see why?
Even if a homosexual act between men is condemned as a sin worth of being executed in the most barbaric way by stoning, as it is demanded by this god character in the Bible, the book says nothing about lesbians. So, do you think that your god approves of lesbians?
What about sadomasochism? The Bible does not mention that either. Why? Because it is no biggie the authors approved and possibly were sadomasochists themselves, or as it is not really, really wrong, or because it is the private issue between two consenting adults? Or more likely, because the book is an incomplete compilation of stories, fairytales, anecdotes and tribal morals by a bunch of ignorant sheepherders and their ritual experts?
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Is Ray Comfort’s “Banana Theory” any more stupid than the “Big Bang Theory” which is the explanation given by Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagan, Bill Nye and other atheists on how the universe was created?
Is anybody, with at least a half a brain, supposed to believe that all the planets, animals, birds, fish, plants, oceans, rivers, mountains, weather, seasons, etc., all came into existence by the mere splitting of an atom??? And then all operate and function in perfect alignment and harmony with each other — just like clockwork? I don’t think so. That, to me, is a pretty damn stupid theory proposed by a couple of supposedly intelligent scientists.
[Your kind are busy bodies and intrusive, but your days are numbered. By Christian leaders’ own estimates, approximately 3500 people a day are leaving and hundreds of churches close every single year for lack of funding and attendance. You’ll either learn to adapt to being inclusive, humane and ethical, or your kind will die out.]
Really??? Based on what??? I think you just made that up.
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As far as the banana “theory” that he claims is an atheists worst nightmare, lol, didn’t you even read my comment? Comfort claimed that Yahweh invented the banana that he’s using for demonstration. The banana is a result of artificial selection, domesticated by humans. The wild banana is small and unpalatable. Early humans specially bred mutant wild fruit (seedless) through root offshoots, or “suckers,” which appear at the base of the plants.
Humans reproduced bananas from the suckers “vegetatively,” that is, by separating the offshoot from the mother pseudostem, and then replanting the suckers as a separate plant. Thus, the propagation of domestic bananas formed genetically identical plants, all of the edible, seedless variety.
http://cwh.ucsc.edu/bananas/Site/The%20Biology%20of%20the%20Banana.html
How is it that you knock evolution and the BBT, and yet think nothing of your god, Yahweh, just coming into existence? — as in poof.
You wrote: “Really??? Based on what??? I think you just made that up.”
Google ‘3500 People Leave the Church Everyday’. There’s about 390,000 results. Clergy are also leaving in large numbers. Think I made that one up as well? Google The Clergy Project. It’s a large online community of ex-clergy and those who have become unbelievers but are still pastors for various reasons — mostly due to fear of the repercussions from “loving” Christians.
The process of coming out of theology is often compared to experiencing the death of someone because research shows that there is a real loss of community support. That doesn’t go for just clergy, but most ex-Christians, especially in the Bible Belt.
In the meantime, I’ll leave you this link: “Millennials Leave Their Churches Over Science, Lesbian & Gay Issues” http://publicreligion.org/2011/10/millennials-leave-their-churches-over-science-lesbian-gay-issues/#.VbPpYPmGNsU
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So how did we all get here???
And not just people, what about: animals, birds, fish, oceans, rivers, mountains, trees, vegetables, fruits, planets, stars, clouds, seasons, etc.? All working in perfect alignment and harmony with each other (at least for the most part) for at least thousands of years — how the heck can you possibly explain that?
Let’s get honest here, The Big Bang Theory, or “the Universe came into existence via the splitting of an atom” is just utter nonsense and completely ridiculous! When the Americans dropped two atom bombs on Japan in World War 2, that wound up DESTROYING most of that country, NOT initiating more life or better quality life to it.
Even without quoting any Bible verses here, the whole notion of a “Creator” initiating and then maintaining the Order of the Universe makes a heck of a lot more sense than the concept of a “Big Bang Theory”.
Secondly, just for argument sake, let’s say Ray Comfort was absolutely, 100 percent wrong about the banana being an atheist’s worst nightmare — how the heck would that make him wrong on everything else he’s ever done or said in life??? That’s sort of a stupid conclusion too, don’t ya think? Thomas Edison, for example, had something like a few thousand failed experiments before he successfully invented the light bulb — according to YOUR logic here, does that automatically make Edison a, “failure” or a “retard” just because of his thousands of failed experiments en route to finally coming up with the light bulb? I, along with most people I think, would disagree with you on that stupid theory.
With that said, how the heck can you possible claim Ray Comfort was wrong about his new documentary video on homosexuality, Audacity based upon his ideas about bananas? That makes no sense whatsoever. I mean the guy has already made a couple hundred, maybe even a couple thousand, documentary videos, isn’t it a little naive and gullible on YOUR PART to solely judge this guy on one bad viewpoint? I’d encourage the folks reading this forum to AT LEAST take the time to watch Audacity and then draw your own conclusions on this video.
Last, but by no means least, when you view Christians — either worldwide or just in America — on how exactly they’re trending regarding actively participating in their faith, how does that compare to Muslims — both worldwide and just in America??? Which religion do you view as a bigger threat towards physically persecuting homosexuals — ESPECIALLY if they implement Sharia Law in America — Christians or Muslims???
You can keep whining and bitching about God, Christianity, and the Bible till the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, but truth be told, you really don’t have the first clue on who your REAL enemy is here for the next decade or so.
#RayComfort
#AudacityMovie
#LivingWatersMinistry
#TheWayOfTheMaster
#Muslims
#Quran
#ShariaLaw
#ThomasEdison
#OneBadDecisionAwayFromHomelessness
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Your comment is nonsensical. You come across as uneducated and unethical.
Now please answer the question. How did your god, Yahweh, come into existence?
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You’re very patient Victoria. Anyone who thinks the world has been in existence for a few thousand years and that ecosystems are planned is flying beyond facts and logic. Even a Christian with half a brain and inch of understanding about the world must concede their god kickstarted an independently developing and functioning life system and HE LEFT NO CLUES even for stupid people.
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Violet, It appears that fzabierek has no critical thinking skills. He’s also willfully choosing to remain unlearned. He’s representative of the kind of people who make millions for Ray Comfort and his ilk, while being instrumental in deliberately causing division and conflict among our species.
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[Your comment is nonsensical. You come across as uneducated and unethical.
Now please answer the question. How did your god, Yahweh, come into existence?]
Wow, so my response to that would be: God has no beginning and will have no end. He’s always been in existence and will continue to exist forever. Unlike you or I, God’s NOT constrained by any sense of time.
Now as “nonsensical”, “uneducated”, and “unethical”(?) as my response may sound to you — and probably most of the folks here on this forum — I still think it makes a heck of a lot more sense than YOUR “Big Bang Theory”, that the sudden and unprovoked splitting of an atom supposedly created a whole universe, along with everything in it (people, animals, fish, birds, trees, plants, planets, stars, moon, sun, weather, seasons, etc.), all working and operating in perfect alignment and harmony with each other for thousands, or perhaps even millions, of years. Or, how about Charles Darwin’s theory that we supposedly all evolved from monkeys???
Dude…seriously???
Are either Ray Comfort or Thomas Edison perfect? Probably not, but both are a heck of a lot more intelligent than any of the Mental Midgets you’ve been worshiping regarding the creation of the universe.
BTW, regarding the atom that supposedly got split to create and maintain what is now known as our “Universe” in the Big Bang Theory — WHO or WHAT first created that particular atom into existence?
#BigBangTheory
#CharlesDarwin
#EvolvedFromMonkeys
#TheTruthAlwaysHurtsDoesntIt?
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[You’re very patient Victoria. Anyone who thinks the world has been in existence for a few thousand years and that ecosystems are planned is flying beyond facts and logic. Even a Christian with half a brain and inch of understanding about the world must concede their god kickstarted an independently developing and functioning life system and HE LEFT NO CLUES even for stupid people.]
You forgot to mention, violetwisp, that both the Big Bang Theory, and Charles Darwin’s theory of humans evolving from monkeys are Atheists (or really, really stupid people) viewpoints, NOT anything even remotely Biblical.
You also forgot to mention what other “theories” are there on: a) how our Universe was first created?, and, b) how it managed to maintain itself over AT LEAST thousands of years?
Your blatant silence to these two simple questions, violetwisp, is absolutely deafening.
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