a challenge to christians
It’s my contention that the Bible is not the inspired holy book of any almighty deity, but a random collection of ramblings by some deluded men from one very small corner of our planet (because only the god God believes there are corners here).
I also contend that this hotch-potch of stories and opinions can be used to justify any belief or action that any person wants to imagine is the will of a god.
Want to have slaves? No problem. Want to ban slavery? No problem.
Want to have several wives and concubines? No problem. Want to have one wife and condemn those who have more than one? No problem.
Want to eat shellfish and pork? No problem. Want to consider it an abomination to eat shellfish and pork? No problem.
Want to judge every other human on the planet? No problem. Want to condemn those who judge every other human on the planet? No problem.
Want to treat women like second class citizens? No problem. Want women and men to be treated equally? No problem.
Want to treasure your children and care for them with due care and gentleness? No problem. Want to tell them they’re evil, beat them up or stone them? No problem.
Want to campaign against abortion? No problem. Want to rip open pregnant women or abort a child conceived outside of marriage? No problem.
So, my challenge to Christians is, what behaviour or attitude are you sure is not approved of in the Bible? I bet I can find a verse that disproves your belief.
Excellent!
I imagine you will be told Jesus more or less wiped the slate clean and the OT Mosaic law falls away. Oh, but wait a moment didn’t Jesus say … not one jot etc?
Are these all juvenile starlings?
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Didn’t he just! And yes, a little troupe of them. Or should that be murmuration?
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Great challenge!
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Eagerly waiting some input …
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How about fig trees? Is there a pro-fig tree entry anywhere?
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Violet,
Interesting.
If I may, I’d like to share a short video that I think will add to the discussion.
http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=htxOjJHB5-8
-Ben
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What’s the video, Ben?
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Sorry I’m on a kindle right now so the links are weird I think. I’ll try again. If it doesn’t work never mind. 🙂
-Ben
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Ahh 🙂
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I think the polite term for this video, Ben is what is called a ”Snow Job”.
When he mentions walking into a library I noted he carefully avoids mentioning reading from the fiction section.
What he is, in fact, doing is Cherry Picking.
The Catholic Church has been lying since the beginning. Why do you support a bunch of liars, Ben?
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The word lying is a bit soft in this context. We’re talking about very well thought through manipulation on multiple levels. Christianity has been a political phenomena from the beginning.
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Thanks Ben, I think this video is great, confirms everything I’ve asserted. The first part he basically agrees that the Bible is a ‘hotch-potch of stories and opinions’ by lots of random men. We can put interpretation of the genres to the test when someone rises to the challenge.
The second part is laughable in the extreme – following the fine tradition of interpretation. In this fine tradition of interpretation and debate we see the Christian church shooting off in thousands of directions depending on whether people believe they are drinking blood, depending on whether people believe Easter is on the right date, depending on whether people believe there are three gods or one god or something more absurd, depending on whether women can be ministers or gay people can be ministers, depending on whether we have free will or not, depending on whether we can read the Bible or not. Yes – we can back it all up with bits of Bible, and every position has supporters who know the Bible inside out and adhere to every condition your guy puts forward.
Which brings on to the next bit – this guy thinks that people in general shouldn’t be allowed to read the Bible? Says it all really.
So, can you give me anything?
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I can give you an Amen! How’s that?
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Excellent questions, Violet. Rather telling that there’ve been no defenders willing to respond.
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I’m going through the comments, can’t see a challenge so far, just some desperate ramblings. I’m kind of disappointed because I have no idea what I can find the Bible.
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Nice question. I wonder if you’ll get any responses.
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I might have to drum some up round some Christian blogs.
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“….what behaviour or attitude are you sure is not approved of in the Bible?”
Violet, your perversion of scripture is duly noted as is your unwillingness to recognize that telling the story of human existence is not the same thing as advocating and endorsing the behavior of all humans all through biblical history. Solomon had several hundred wives and concubines and yet if you actually read the story, the bible is not condoning or advocating such behavior, in fact, just the opposite. “It is all vanity,” wealth, wives, wisdom.
You fear people will use the bible to advocate for bad things, I get that. As I’ve said before the Son of Sam killer tried to blame his dog for what he did, do we now hate dogs? Not long ago a man poured gasoline on his girlfriend because he didn’t think she was recycling properly. Do we now hate global warming?
Your post is illogical and motivated by a wilfull attempt to disparage both Christians and the bible, not that I’m judging, you are free to do what you wish, it just hardly even merits an intelligent response.
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Perversion? Willful attempt to disparage…? What does that remind me of?
How about your lies, Insanitybytes? The way you use the word biology to imply an expertise you do not have? The way you used to call yourself a ‘scientist.’
You’re shamelessly trying to deceive anyone who has the misfortune to read the propaganda you regurgitate. Old, stale propaganda that the entire world has heard hundreds of times and the more educated of us dismissed as garbage long ago.
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Did she call herself a scientist? I never got the impression she was lying about anything. The biology thing was just a layman moaning about gender roles they think are fixed.
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She used to say she was a research scientist. When I last questioned her on it she said that actually “everyone is a scientist.”
Her tag line is intentionally misleading. The reason that crowd misappropriates the words science or biology is to deceive the reader.
They pretend they’re interested in scientific or biological viewpoints when in reality they disregard anything scientific or biological that opposes their religion. That’s scam-artistry.
“All 1001 studies are wrong! Except this one very scientific and biological study which happens to agree with my religion!”
How disingenuous is that?
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I’m shocked. I hold her in the highest regard. (For someone of the religious persuasion with a tendency to hate on wimmin ‘n’ gays.)
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I understand your concern, it must be a frightening thought. Do you have anything for me to work on?
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Hey IB, just a couple points here:
First, if you read your Bible religiously, then you ought to know that it was Solomon’s foreign wives which caused your deity to punish Solomon and split Israel in half. (1 Kings 11:1-13 is where I’m talking about).
Second, are you sure the Bible didn’t condone Solomon’s wealth and wisdom? After all it was your deity that gave it to him. (1 Kings 3:5-15). In fact, those same verses were where your deity told him to keep faith in order to have a long life.
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As I said on another Thread in this same forum, before you call me either a: “hater” or “homophobe”, you may want to look up to the sky and then curse God Almighty. I didn’t write, “The Book”, ladies and gentlemen.
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Peter 1:20-21
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
#GodSaidItThatSettlesItiBelieveIt
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Thanks for your comment. Who called you a hater or homophobe? I’m just trying to get people like you to question how sure you can be of your interpretation of what you read in the Bible. As I say, it can be used to back up almost any belief or position. So I kind of get the impression that a lot of people are using it incorrectly.
Do you have anything for the challenge?
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Finding silly stuff in the Bible is a no brainer – but this is to escape the historical context. In those days even scientists talked what we now think is total garbage and faith was absolutely bound to the culture of the day. On the other hand some of the New Testament main themes – eg Jesus on forgiveness of enemies, loving your neighbour, the parable of the Good Samaritan, Paul on the characteristics of love, James on True religion etc are much harder to dismiss. Don’t forget faith evolves slowly in a context and we bring tremendous baggage to the debate. For example an attack such as the main theme of the initial post on Christianity (or Islam) is hardly showing values that help develop a kindly and compassionate society.
Try googling Karen Armstrong’s Charter of Compassion and see what a thoughtful modern Christian sees as sensible advice, then have another go.
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The story of the Bible is not about our attitudes and behaviors but about God’s grace and mercy. Jesus Christ is the propitiation for all our sinful behaviors and attitudes.
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Thank you. Do you have anything for the challenge?
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Thanks for your comment. I’m not sure I understand what you mean. Is this an attack? It all seems quite straight forward to me. I don’t see what any compassionate Christian would object to. The point of the post is to get Christians to question how adamantly they can proclaim their many harmful beliefs – instead they should consider issues logically, weighing up positive and negative outcomes. If their god is a god of love there wouldn’t be arbitrary commands discriminating against for example women and homosexuals. Many Christians are able to accept the Bible and find justification for avoiding such teachings – the others should think carefully about the Bible and follow suit.
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Suggesting one read Armstrong to gain insight into a more sophisticated version of religious belief is like suggesting one read The Hobbit Companion to gain a better understanding of Elves.
Armstrong doesn’t say anything about anything; she says a lot about nothing. For example, according to the ever-numinous Armstrong, God is really the god behind the god people believe in. (That’s a deepity, namely belief in belief. It doesn’t make Elves real)
Gee thanks, Karen. How very sophisticated of you to be so clear. Now let’s add some Greek like Mythos and Logos and let’s really get obfuscating as a freelance monotheist.
Look, stirring up the sediment of a shallow puddle to make it as opaque as possible – which is all Armstrong does with her religious books – doesn’t make it any deeper or more meaningful. The same is true for Armstrong’s attempt to do this with religious belief. Elves are still a fiction.
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Well said V and excellent post! Yes, and who knows what those deluded men smoke when they write those ‘laws’ in that book they call the ‘Bible’. I think you’ve put all of them right on the spot here. Of course you will find a verse that disproves their belief. That’s what they do. 😀
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Sorry, it should be when they ‘wrote’ those laws…
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Well, I’d like to see if it’s possible, but no-one is willing to try.
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To me, there are two broad strains in the Bible: the God of Love and the God of Judgment. Those who follow the God of Judgment will say silly things like “God loves you and therefore will cast you into Hell”. They like rules. Those who follow the God of Love must love as God loves us. It is a dialogue or dialectic, culminating in Jesus’ refusal to resist, refusal to meet violence with violence.
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I think some people have rough lives and they long for rough justice. Other people have rough lives and long for peace.
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I create peace. It is the work of God.
Increasingly, I bring peace to myself and as I do so I can bring peace to others. As I know myself I may see others more clearly. And I have always brought peace by listening, sympathising and valuing. Christ brings peace.
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(later) You know my first reaction was “Fuck you, Violet”. That is brilliant, and beautifully expressed. And I like to think I am not quite skewered by it, that those who long for peace will be satisfied- when we stop fighting, at least.
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Clare! Enough with the swearing, that’s two occurrences in one classy post. And you’re too poetic for me so I’m lost anyway.
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It was a reply to your comment. I can unpack it if you really want.
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Go on. It might help me with poetry generally. I’ve always had a blind spot.
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“some people have rough lives and they long for rough justice.”
Ha. You skewered them. I am delighted that my Christian opponents are so beautifully summarized.
“Other people have rough lives and long for peace.”
Oh no! Is that me? It’s not just that, surely? I felt defensive.
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Most people want peace surely, that’s the ideal. The people that want rough justice are just confused enough to think that could bring peace. It just satisfies the virtually defunct revenge instinct, which serves no purpose in a fair and compassionate society.
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Excellent! And the goddites have come guns blazing
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…with their guns blazing tumbleweed.
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and as the blog whisperer of some strange commenters, could you be kind enough to translate what CS writes to English so I could understand him
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Certainly, although the translation process is quite complex and may take several weeks…
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As long as the Grim Ripper doesn’t show his hand, I can wait
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“‘In the beginning,God created the heaven and the earth.’
Time. Space. Matter. All in the opening thunderous first verse that necessarily shuts mans mouth. God knows all about the so- called scientists and their quest to oust Him from His creation. His loaded first verse is kind of humorous in that regard.
I can see vwisp why you may have trouble saying it is inspired.”
The god God created evolution so that humans couldn’t detect him and he wrote that first line in the Bible as a joke.
“‘I do set my bow in the cloud…………………….’
A reminder of HIS covenant.
I can see why you have trouble saying the scriptures are inspired. The glorious rainbow is His dazzling genius.”
The gay pride flag is my pride and joy.
“‘The hear is deceitful and desperately wicked……………..’
Apart from God, this is pretty much undeniable……………
Looking at the comments of your friends on a regular basis, this is shamefully obvious. Ahem, there are a few lingering thoughts on this page that offer proof NOW, and will be further confirmed in the comments following.”
ColorStorm has proof NOW that the god God is shamed by the deceitful and desperately wicked interpretation of his wishes by his so-called followers.
“Go into the village, and you shall find a man carrying a pitcher of water……….’ Yea, the owner of the donkey……..
The omniscience of the Lord antagonizes unbelief to no end that the word of God is verifiable, reliable, and truthful.
I can see why you may have trouble believing it is inspired.”
ColorStorm found a man in a village who owned a donkey and some water, and that’s how he knows the god God exists.
Not sure about the next bit, I think it’s about not judging people like homosexuals.
“And to wrap things up here violet, the word of God says perfectly how hyenas and vultures will bring their ‘ungodly speeches,’ ‘doctrines of devils,’ ‘beguiling and unstable’ eyes, and the entire train full of every unclean and hateful bird; only thing is, will it be in a minute, or an hour………………………
So yea, I can see why the word of God is not inspired to you, as ‘God is true, and every man a liar.’”
This part explains how annoyed the god God is that no-one is listening to the animals and birds anymore. He’s also worry about people not using glasses correctly, thereby rendering their eyes unstable. Finally, every man is a liar, so ColorStorm is telling us not to listen to him anyway.
“But there are countless examples that are more than sufficient to wash away the lame assumption that the scriptures are not inspired, you see, He made the stars also………..””
This is perhaps the most inspired and relevant part of ColorStorms poetic comment. Here he is playing on the fact that the god God created evolution to trick humans, so in fact didn’t really make the stars, just kick-started the process from nothing. This is a double clever comment because he is also running on from the last part telling us he is a liar. Inspiring stuff indeed!
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Hahaha! VW you win. You have made my afternoon. They don’t call you a CS whisperer for nothing.
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Well, there is no cure for you if you’ve cursed and denied the holy spirit. Fuck him if he can’t take a joke. I’m on good terms with Casper and he says that holy dude is a dick. Go figure.
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I don’t like swearing on my high class blog. You know that. Apart from that. What??
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‘In the beginning,God created the heaven and the earth.’
Time. Space. Matter. All in the opening thunderous first verse that necessarily shuts mans mouth. God knows all about the so- called scientists and their quest to oust Him from His creation. His loaded first verse is kind of humorous in that regard.
I can see vwisp why you may have trouble saying it is inspired.
‘I do set my bow in the cloud…………………….’
A reminder of HIS covenant.
I can see why you have trouble saying the scriptures are inspired. The glorious rainbow is His dazzling genius.
‘The hear is deceitful and desperately wicked……………..’
Apart from God, this is pretty much undeniable……………
Looking at the comments of your friends on a regular basis, this is shamefully obvious. Ahem, there are a few lingering thoughts on this page that offer proof NOW, and will be further confirmed in the comments following.
‘Go into the village, and you shall find a man carrying a pitcher of water……….’ Yea, the owner of the donkey……..
The omniscience of the Lord antagonizes unbelief to no end that the word of God is verifiable, reliable, and truthful.
I can see why you may have trouble believing it is inspired.
‘He that is without sin, let him first pick up the stone.’
The word of God and its sting on the conscience have its way with all who trifle with its sacred contents.
I can see why you may not believe it is inspired.
‘The word of God is forever settled in heaven.’ Men find this unsettling, that He who keeps the sun and moon in place, has no problem keeping His word.
And to wrap things up here violet, the word of God says perfectly how hyenas and vultures will bring their ‘ungodly speeches,’ ‘doctrines of devils,’ ‘beguiling and unstable’ eyes, and the entire train full of every unclean and hateful bird; only thing is, will it be in a minute, or an hour………………………
So yea, I can see why the word of God is not inspired to you, as ‘God is true, and every man a liar.’
But there are countless examples that are more than sufficient to wash away the lame assumption that the scriptures are not inspired, you see, He made the stars also………..
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Colorstorm, you have just proved the existence of The Owner of All Infernal Names
Before there was light there was, after all, only darkness. Before there was light there was only what the Greek poet Hesiod called the “yawning nothingness,” and from within this perfect eclipse the uncaused First Cause moved, constructively interfering with a portion of that eternal void which existed before space and time were named with a temperature. This unending, infinite bleakness—a blackness that the authors of the Vedas collectively identified as a type of swirling chaos, a darkness concealed in darkness—is the Creator’s ancestral home. It is where He resides, within what human minds can only comprehend as the deepest of detestable disorders.
That, to Him, is home.
He—the Creator—did not move on the darkness, vanquishing it and by doing so annihilating His supernal hearth, His residence, rather this universe was fashioned from within and by the material that had never known a morning. Darkness is the parent, the cinderblock, the mortar, and the paint. From this shadow-material colours were shaped and this universe was stretched out, but it will forever be of its parent, dependent and loyal to the end.
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Thank you, delightfully odd and empty as ever. I particularly like this bit “The glorious rainbow is His dazzling genius.”
Do you have anything for the challenge?
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Odd eh. If you found that empty, then any further response to your ‘challenge’ will of course be met with equal disdain, even though the girl with the blue dress, more commonly known as your buddy, answered more than adequately;
but here’s a free donut to chew on: God and His word wins all challenges by not showing up.
His word is that good, as opposed to the dry, decayed, depraved, and rusty borrowed comments by your staff.
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CS –
That last quote of yours, I assume, refers to you and your christian brethren.
By the way, the free donut? I’m sure you think it’s prophetic. Believe me, if you really took it to heart you’d apply it to yourself.
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You like quotes Carmen? Here’s one for ya:
It is easier to believe Moses lived, than for you to believe you will live to see tomorrow.
God’s word is that reliable, verifiable, and truthful.
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CS – three little words, “If you believe”. . . see how that works? As I’ve said before, the imagination is a wonderful thing. . 🙂
And there’s no such thing as (a) god’s word – they’re the words of men, CS. That’s it.
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Indeed. In terms of meeting all challenges by not showing up, your god is exactly the same as every other invisible deity created by the imagination of humans. Odd eh?
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No violet, your special need for ‘more proof’ is rather insulting actually.
So ‘life’ isn’t enough proof for ya huh? The genealogies of scripture are not enough huh? (You know, those verifiable, verifiable, and truthful accounts that shut our mouths…………….’
And oh, your kin never answers, maybe you can: if man is no different than an animal,and has no spirit, then why pray tell, do you not send out death notices for jackals or ground hogs?
This challenge may be more apt for your needs.
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I’m not looking for proof or looking to challenge your god on this occasion. I’m simply trying to draw to your attention that the Bible is open to broad interpretation (as if the 42,000 denominations doesn’t make it obvious) and that you cannot vehemently declare the Bible says this or that with such certainly.
I want to test my assertion, but it seems none of you have confidence in your large rambling book. Not a single whimper of a challenge.
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Because V. your ‘challenge’ is feigned and irrelevant. Out of the gate you addressed ‘inspiration.’
The discussion is simply a smokescreen. No answer will satisfy an unbelieving heart., but only to provide food for the crows.
No comment on the jackal huh………….It is rather condemning in its point.
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“No answer will satisfy an unbelieving heart., but only to provide food for the crows.”
I actually understand that, and even think it’s well expressed! But I don’t think it’s relevant here. It’s a simple experiment. I could easily be proven wrong. I mean, just how ridiculous would the Bible be to provide support for or against every specific behaviour or opinion. It’s intriguing that you’re all in such indignant tizzies about this.
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Wow Violet, I am moving up the esteem department, with ‘well expressed.’
Pretty soon you will say like others of old: ‘you almost persuaded me to become a christian……………..’
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CS – I wouldn’t hold your breath on that one. .. 🙂
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Wow, violetwisp, I guess you can “challenge” anybody’s rules, laws or philosophy with any stupid, frivolous question like, “Can God create a rock He cannot lift?”. I’m not quite sure what the heck that question or your “challenge” has to do with a person ultimately obtaining Eternal Salvation or simply striving to live their life according to God’s Will.
But in the spirit of fairness, why not offer a Thread or two on this forum about Muslims (a.k.a. the religion of Peace), and its book of moral standards — the Quran? If Muslims had their way in the United States and we replaced our justice system with Sharia law — anybody even suspected of being a homosexual would promptly be beheaded. And Caitlyn Jenner would probably be the very first to lose his/her head.
Incidentally, violetwisp, can you please explain to us all why homosexual couples aren’t currently suing Muslim clergy or business owners for refusing to accommodate them on their weddings??? Why are the homosexuals just “targeting” Christians in these types of lawsuits?
Your sudden silence to these questions, violetwisp, is absolutely deafening.
#DoubleStandard
#ChristianBashing
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“why not offer a Thread or two on this forum about Muslims (a.k.a. the religion of Peace), and its book of moral standards — the Quran?”
Thanks for this question. I do think it deserves a post because it’s a common distraction angle for Christians when they’ve lost the discussion. In summary, the dominant religion in my country is Christianity, I was brought up with Christianity, I know it inside out (almost) and I remain disgusted by the attitudes many Christians extract from the Bible. Also people round about me are harmed by your beliefs – I see and feel the direct results, and Christians are attempting to interfere in secular policy in my country. What do I know about Islam? Enough to fill a scrap of paper.
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You do provide a bit of comedy V. ‘The discussion is lost……………’ you say.
Insert laugh tracks here.
Without believing ‘In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth…………..’ your discussion is ended, and you are guilty of losing your own challenge.
As to your assertion that you ‘know’ what Christianity is……………I submit you are confusing the color blue with red. It’s ok to be color blind, just don’t pretend you can see, as there are others who do in fact know their colors, and recognize clearly the tones and various hues of darkness.
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CS, as I have pointed out to do, before there was light, there was only darkness… a perfect chaos which the Creator calls “home.”
You see, evil brought this universe into being. The incompetent spirit you dream of was only ever a secondary invention, a grinning wicker man thrown together in antiquity and stood in place as a chimerical response to a world whose everyday works betray the fantasy in every possible way.
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“Without believing ‘In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth…………..’ your discussion is ended, and you are guilty of losing your own challenge.”
In what way? Are you not interested to see the depths of potential contradiction in your holy book? Do you dispute the examples I’ve given? If so, please explain where your Bible hasn’t been used to justify each opposing position, by people who were steeped in your religion.
“As to your assertion that you ‘know’ what Christianity is……”
So do you now contend that I know more about Islam than Christianity? What an odd thought.
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I never mentioned Is-lam V. But I did say you know just about nothing of biblical Christianity.
It’s not an insult, just an observation based on your own words.
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Sorry CS, I know it’s difficult to follow these long threads but my comment about knowing Christianity was in response to a suggestion that I should be attacking Islam, of which I know relatively little to nothing. Compared to the lofty theological heights that great Christians such as yourself have reached, I agree I know nothing. But I’m willing to learn. 😉
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Are you willing to learn Violet? The ‘fear’ of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.’ Not the punitive kind, but one of reverential respect and awe, springing from a heart and mind that has understood the benediction of God’s intrinsic eternal perfection, not only through creation, but through redemption.
Your focus would then be on the 99.9888834% that God has made clear, and not on the .0001% that you find insipid, (which is equally clear when compared with the entire warp and woof of scripture.)
If this were the case, your ‘challenge’ would cease, and you would understande why some are not taking the bait.
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CS, you know you make The Owner of All Infernal Names pleased with your promotion of a false god… A Middle Eastern god, no less.
Keep it up. You won’t be rewarded, of course, but that’s just the way things are.
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Okay, so fear is the beginning. How does one fear something one can’t detect? Do I just have to imagine harder? Or just take your word for it? Why would I take your word over a follower of Allah?
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No no, take my word for it. The Lakota god is 5 times older than the Christian Jesus and 3,000 years older than the Herbrew god is presumed to be.
Oh and check your fear at the door there is no hell. If you didn’t do good enough to get into heaven he sends you to try, try again.
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That’s equitable. Something like being held back a year in school.
What’s the final goal?
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To live a good life at peace with yourself and nature. That is the end goal.
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I can live with that.
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“Incidentally, violetwisp, can you please explain to us all why homosexual couples aren’t currently suing Muslim clergy or business owners for refusing to accommodate them on their weddings??? Why are the homosexuals just “targeting” Christians in these types of lawsuits? ”
I don’t know. Are Muslim business owners in the US or Europe turning them away? I’d be interested to a link if you have one.
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That would be interesting. Can you cite some sources of Muslim businesses turning gays away?
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There seems to be a deafening silence to the questions elicited from the questions he predicted would bring a deafening silence.
#DoubleDeafeningSilence (this is fun, I might get into it)
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Let me guess, you found a bottle of rum 🙂
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http://toprightnews.com/hidden-camera-will-muslim-bakers-make-a-gay-wedding-cake/
FYI. 🙂
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typo geez, sorry
‘The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked……………’
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Comment didn’t go where I thought it was headed. The quote I referred to was the one about deceitful and wicked hearts. .
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Vwisp, I would think that your challenge should be easily met if the source material were better. CS comments bring to life a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying… nothing. And this association between people like CS who import to the Bible what they advertise as coming from the Bible brings forth in my mind the terrible imagery of Ysuch colossal ignorance and stupidity described in Yeats’ “The Second Coming.
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The link to that poem shoudl be here.
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Poetry blind spot. Means nothing to me unfortunately. Isn’t CS great though? I mean, in a competition between him and SOM I’m not sure who would win.
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Poe ol’ CS and Poe ‘ol SOM? They’re birds of a feather in that their brains simply cannot function rationally when under the direction of their faith. That’s why both demonstrate Poe’s Law in action: even they cannot differentiate lunacy from their religiously inspired comments.
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I think SOM often has his tongue firmly in his drunk cheek. CS on the other hand …
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Tildeb,
Calling people who are more educated and articulate and infinitely more rational than yourself, “poe” proves that you simply can’t withstand even a drop of truth without resorting to bullying, name calling and other anti social fascist favorites.
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SOM, I just calls ’em as I sees ’em. Both your and CS’ brains suffer from the same infection, which is why you both discharge the same kind of thinking goo.
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Christians can’t even answer “Why is it you believe god would bless this nation?” and when shown the evils this nation under god has done they still won’t admit their god doesn’t bless this nation.
It’s simple either god blessed mass murder (genocide), forced abortions, forced sterilization, rape, theft and deceit when it came to the native Americans or he did not bless it. If he did not bless these actions then it’s safe to say he NEVER blessed this nation. If he did bless those things then he isn’t a good and loving god. They can’t even see one or the other must be true but both can’t be true.
It was an interesting discussion. The post was named “Calling all Christians”. Ultimately they admitted God wouldn’t bless genocide just like he doesn’t bless abortion. So god does not bless this nation. But it took nearly pulling teeth to get the answer it seemed.
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Interesting, I missed that one! I’ll read through all the comments when I get a minute.
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The greatest story of the Old Testament is God freeing His people from slavery.
So to accuse God of advocating slavery is nonsense.
According to the Bible, God “created man in his own image. Male and female he created them.”
And from Genesis 2:24, “That is why a man is destined to leave father and mother, and cling to his wife instead, so that the two become one flesh.”
In the New Testament Jesus’ first miracle was performed at the Wedding Feast of Cana. This punctuated Jesus’ own teachings on marriage between man and woman.
So to accuse God of advocating anything other than the marriage between a man and a woman is nonsense.
And on and on with the other examples. They are pure atheist-hallucinated nonsense and have nothing to do with what the Bible actually says or means.
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SOM – here are the opening words that were left out of the bible –
“Once upon a time. .. “
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Carmen,
To compare one of the Great Books of our Western Heritage to a fairy tale exemplifies the truly retrograde nature of postmodern thought.
When people can’t tell the difference between treasure and trash, civilization itself isn’t long for this world.
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Really interesting SOM thanks.
Anything for the challenge? What behaviour or attitude are you sure is not approved of in the Bible?
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Violet,
I already responded to your “challenge.”
But here is more, from the mouth of Jesus:
The meaning of the Law (Jewish Scripture) is, Love God and love thy neighbor.
Any activities or attitudes outside those Great Commandments is not approved of in the Bible.
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love thy neighbor… You mean, like these few bible examples:
And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. Deuteronomy 2:34
And we utterly destroyed them, … utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. Deuteronomy 3:6
And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them. Deuteronomy 7:2
And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them. Deuteronomy 7:16
Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. Deuteronomy 13:15
But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. Deuteronomy 20:16-17
And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. Joshua 6:21
So smote all the country … he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. Joshua 10:40
Thus saith the LORD of hosts … go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 1 Samuel 15:2-3
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John,
I’ve addressed your concern so many times that I wonder whether it’s even worth addressing again…
…Oh well, since this will give me yet another chance to love my neighbor, I give it another go.
In the verses you cited, the theme is eradicating evil.
Evil is eradicated through death and destruction.
World War II was an example of the biblical justice you find so offensive.
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Thanks for that, SOM, but that is not said anywhere in the text, nor is the command “Love your non-evil neighbour.”
Wisp’s challenge was to find some command in the bible that is not contradicted by the bible. Good on you for trying, but clearly your example is contradicted.
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John,
Good literature has what they call, deep, inner meaning.
To understand deep, inner meaning, first you need a brain, then you need a heart.
Atheism kills both of those very human talents.
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And you suggest the murder of 250,000,000 native Americans as destroying evil? People who lived in peace, shared the land, helped the Christian colonists and even after betrayal, after betrayal still sought peace and not war. The century of eugenics where native women were given abortions against their will, go in for the sniffles and leave without the child they went in with. Forced sterilizations of healthy and young men and women and also against the will and not requested as a procedure.
Will you defend those as good and just?
I’d say seeking peace and helping others was more loving than the genocidal US government and European Christian colonists.
Would you say claiming religious freedoms and escaping from oppression only to oppress others was loving?
I can site thousands of examples here in America of “love thy neighbor” gone wrong and evil used by so called Christians and justified by same as “Gods will”.
Are those examples you are looking for?
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Michelle,
The Bible is not to blame for the evil that men do.
That being said, indigenous people had been slaughtered by more advanced agrarian societies for thousands of years.
Consequently, the “plight of the Native American” is simple propaganda that the dim witted have been brainwashed to believe.
The European simply could not abide the savage, indigenous warrior who had no honor and who slaughtered defenseless women and children as a matter of pride.
All the wailing and moaning about the cruel white man is simply crocodile tears being wept by the indigenous savage over receiving the same treatment that they routinely dealt out not only to each other and to the European.
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It seems it is you who believe the lies.
ALL accounts from early coloniists describe the people as “peaceful” even fighting wars that lasted a dozen years with fewer than 5 deaths. They were in total disbelief at this.
The ONLY ones who began killing women and children were the colonists.
These have been factually verified by a Harvard history professor who is also a Christian.
Uncivilized? https://aghostdancer.wordpress.com/2015/03/24/the-american-experiment/
Fact is your nation, it’s concepts, and even its foundation is 100% not new to my “savage” people.
More is needed? https://aghostdancer.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/lessons-from-my-ancestors/
Also historically and factually verified, death valley, trail of tears, a century of eugenics lasting into 1986. centuries of oppression.
500 years of oppression, lies, and murder is the legacy of this “Christian” nation and the European “Christians” who came here.
Look up EVERY war it was started by the colonists. They were never happy. Look up the facts how this nation is still practicing “cultural genocide” to this very day.
You have no clue of what you speak and simply believe your so called history books which time and time again like this so called good “Christian” nation has proven full of lies and untruths.
One more historical example of the lies about these “savages”
Go ahead and spout your ignorance for the world to see because that is what you just spouted with your stupid nonsense. You sir need to look in the mirror because the only murderous, lying savages were the European Christians. And that sir is what you call a fact.
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He’s a troll Michelle, don’t take the bait. But don’t tell him I told you.
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He is a troll claiming to be “educated” and making easily disproved statements. He now has facts before him and I bet he will still cling to his ignorance which will only show he lies about his education.
Mean while I hold a Bachelors of Science in Information Security Management with a minor is History from Florida State and a Bachelors of Science in Psychology from the University of Hawaii and that will soon be a Masters degree.
But I am the “stupid” one. /smh
yes I know he is a troll.
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Michelle,
Calling people names is part of the brainwashing you people have all received.
My advice is get a brain of your own and then get it educated.
The crap you’ve been spoon fed at school not only comes out of your mouth but also your ears and every other orifice you possess.
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Shame more of us aren’t spoon fed crap from the Catholic history machine, eh SOM?
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Yup V he is indeed spoon fed. He is also hopeless so I am not wasting time. He is even to ignorant to see I am that “ghost dancer”. /smh
I feel sorry for him but I’ve no time for his ignorance. All he has to do is go read Native Facts and he will see in so many ways we were centuries ahead of Europeans Sure we weren’t ahead in war but we were in medicine, agriculture, art, and so many places that made a peaceful life easier.
Anyone interested in some of these can got here: https://aghostdancer.wordpress.com/category/native-facts/
Thanks V for posting such fun topics, you do bring out some interesting people and some interesting trolls as well.
many hugs
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Violet,
Why is it okay for you to be a religious bigot (“the Catholic history machine”) and I’m a troll for telling history the way it is?
You’re a moron, Violet.
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Good question SOM. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, you know how I appreciate your work.
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It is not I spouting the ignorance nor who began the names. You called my people and by extension me a savage and more. Practice what we preach much?
Calling you ignorant is not a name. it is a fact. You have no formal education in history beyond your school text books. I myself have referenced sources available that tell the true history from and by the people who lived it.
Calling you a troll is also a fact, You are spouting ignorance as fact intentionally. “An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.” The very definition you fit.
Try again.
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Michelle,
Look at the culture you live in, the cloths you wear, the food you eat, all the tech you use, the housing, the plumbing, the cars, the roads, the medicine, the science, the education.
You are living in and loving the “White Man’s” civilization.
That’s because the culture of indigenous people is truly savage and given a choice, anyone in their right mind leaves savagery for civilization.
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Violet,
If you think I’m a troll, why did you invite here?
I hate coming here because you’re a moron.
In the future please leave me alone.
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Michelle,
You citing propaganda from someone called “ghost dancer” speaks to the witlessness of your argument.
The indigenous peoples of the America’s were doomed the moment they came into contact with a more technologically advanced culture.
That scenario has been played out throughout human history.
There is nothing special about the “plight of the Native American” except that instead of genocide they were given reservations and reserves of their own and forced to live in peace.
You can go to any Native American reservation today and see the pest holes of poverty that they are.
That’s why most Native Americans prefer to live with the White Man where they can be free and prosper.
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Michelle,
Your position is essentially racist sense you have bought into an image of the Native American that isn’t even human.
If you don’t consider the Native American to be human, you’re a racist.
It makes no difference whether you cast them as angels.
Your image of them is non-human.
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One more for you. This is how much our people knew of war.
Yeah peace, even while the Europeans slaughtered them, they valued peace and life so much they didn’t even fight back often as is the case here.
Shall I continue? Because I surely can.
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Fairy tale, myth – pick your work of fiction. Some of the stories in that ‘great book’ (which I refer to as my least favourite fiction) rivals anything the Grimm Brothers ever came up with.
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I pick my work of fiction. The so called history books here in the American classrooms. Especially as they pertain to my so called savage ancestors. Those same ancestors who knew nothing of war like Europe had.
As many people in America by into this fiction as any. 🙂
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Are you willing to learn?
Start by believing asses talk, staves become snakes and vice versa, the sun can stop in its track, you can change the stripes on goats just by getting them to jump over sticks, that darkness and day were first together and then deity tore them apart. If that is not good enough, you can believe virgins give birth to sons, people walk on water, fish can be used for taxi services and it is perfectly in order to curse trees out of season.
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Sounds great! When do we start? 🙂
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Anytime you are ready
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Can I be in Violets class? I need a study partner and she’s too cool for school so honestly we are gonna skip your classes unless they are held at the beach on a surf board while wearing bikinis!
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I want to be in that class too. I already laid out the curriculum. And anywhere is ok to learn about god, you know
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Well, VW, looks like you’ve gone and done it now.
Asking for specific beliefs? A deity that will show up and do party tricks? Scandalous!
I think the behavior they’re sure of being forbidden is doing whatever it was you were doing in your post.
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