one solution: guns, guns, guns
I want a gun so if a Muslim terrorist grabs it, a bolt of lightning drops them dead on the spot.
Intrigued? Watch the short video below.
Thanks to John Zande for finding this.
184 thoughts on “one solution: guns, guns, guns”
All comments welcome!
Recent Comments
It’s so head-shakingly bizarre that it’s hilarious – those would definitely be the weapon of choice in a religious war, eh?
Trouble is, there’s nothing funny about it …. 😦
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It’s like one those ridiculous satires that surely could never be real …
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Jesus Lightning!
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Does he believe it might happen? At least you’ve found someone for that challenge you’re always issuing. 🙂
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So funny and yet not at all.
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Hey violet,
You may have just diminished your image with this vid. It’s pretty pathetic I tell ya. That cat is a lame excuse for serious consideration. And of course his depraved thoughts on the LORD are real mature, and spoken with keen intellect…..
Try to get beyond the hype of the gun shop dude here, and listen to what he said: ‘muslim TERRORIST.’ Uh, clue there maybe? As in, if he is coming to kill a bunch of people……..it might not be a bad idea to protect yourself…………’
Or maybe you would make him a sandwich first, in the interest of hospitality, before he goes on his killing spree……………
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Muslim terrorist… What about the Christian Terrorist who went on a killing spree the other day in the women’s health centre?
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I thought you have gone into hiding john………….
but a Christian? Ha, and grapes come from holly bushes. Please.
Don’t even try to present this an an argument, as you will lose all credibility once more.
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Ah, I see… he wasn’t a True Christian™
Right, got it…
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I know it is considered not PC in some circles to call someone crazy but you are either a fraud and a willful liar or mentally ill.
Truly, either way, you need some serious professional help
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Oh no he doesn’t!
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Doesn’t what?
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(You’re supposed to say ‘oh yes he does’. Say no more, sssh)
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Aaah… sorry. Quick delete the comments and we can play again…. before Colorstorm shows up.
All together now… 🙂
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Just for clarity here, Colourstorm… what type of Christian Terrorism is it when Jerry Falwell (one of the leaders of US Christianity) is calling for all students at Liberty University (America’s leading Christian university) to murder Muslims?
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/12/christian-university-president-urges-students-to-carry-guns-and-kill-muslims/
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Here ya go, real easy. Since you have used the term ‘Christian Terrorism,’ perhaps you can enlighten all of us, as to WHERE in the New Testament are you getting this directive to murder people under the banner of Christianity.
Take your time and do a thorough search, and you will no doubt have answered your own question.
But be sure to delineate between murder and self defense.
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Don’t dodge it, Colourstorm… what type of Terrorism do you call it when one of the America’s leading Christian voices calls for the mass killing of Muslims?
And the Jesus gun… are you going to buy one? You should, then you can murder all non-believers, men, women, and children!
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
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@ 5.09 is lucid as it gets. Can’t add to clarity.
And please do not embarrass yourself further by ‘quoting’ scripture that you neither believe nor understand, in context.
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Oh dear, you truly are pathetic, aren’t you?
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And Colourstorm, where does it say in the NT that you should own and carry a gun?
I look forward to reading that passage
Thanks….
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Ah the proverbial bait and trap. No tkx, I am well aware of that game.
Sorry jz, you have proved time and time again you cannot be trusted with scripture. If you do not believe Genesis 1.1, or that Moses lived……….surely no verse from the New Testament will satisfy. That’s a fact, and you have no case.
Perhaps you are looking for love in all the wrong places though.
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Ah, I see… So you want to see a passage that supports the Christian Terrorist who went on a killing-spree the other day, and Falwells plea for Christians to start murder Muslims, but you’re not prepared to reciprocate and show me where Jesus says “Own and carry gun.”
Tremendously convincing, Colourstorm.
So, I’ve given you one passage, but shall we try some more on for size?
Death to Followers of Other Religions: Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests: Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Fortunetellers: A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Adultery: If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Kill False Prophets: If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
I could, of course go on, but why should I.
Now, Colourstorm, you love guns, so are you going to buy the Jesus Gun and answer Jerry Falwell’s call for Christian terrorism?
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There is no level to your shamelessness jz.
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You respect Jerry Falwell, don’t you Colourstorm? He is one of, if not the leading evangelical voice in America, correct?
So, this Christian leader whom you respect and adore and listen to is calling on you, Colourstorm, to conduct terrorism.
So, are you going to answer his call and start murder Muslims wherever they are found?
If you do, I’d suggest you use the Jesus Gun… It’s a Christian Assault Rifle, which I’d imagine you would love!
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Isn’t it interesting John,that the real Christian dismisses terrorism done in its name the same way so many Muslims dismiss terrorism done in its name? So, again, where are all the real Christians condemning Christian terrorism as they insist the real Muslims must do if they are not to be held equivalently accountable?
* the sound of more than a billion crickets *
CS demonstrates the convenient double standard he exercises upon which his rarefied version of the true Christian belief is held morally aloft. Because he severs his religious beliefs from reality… including from the very scripture he pretends is its godly source… you cannot pierce his bubble-world with any evidence from it. What you can do – and have successfully done here – is show his delusional thinking in action and the double standard he relies on but will never recognize.
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John, I live in Colorado Springs and was a friend of the police officer who was killed by that mad man. The shooter wasn’t a Christian, just another lunatic.
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Jim, he thought he was a Christian, just like you think you’re a Christian.
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Hey notes,
Don’t embarrass yourself.
Rotten fruit at the bottom of the barrel is not very appetizing. If you cannot make a simple distinction between fresh apples and rotting ones used for compost…………then I suppose many people feel sorry for you.
Oops, wait, I’m sorry, I forgot, you do NOT make a distinction…………and ALL believers are rotten fruit like and murdering killers, and know nothing of self control………goodness……..mercy………kindness……….faith………..hope….charity…meekness….
Please. You have said entirely too much to hang yourself with your own myopic words.
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My whole family is Christian, and I certainly don’t consider them rotten fruit, ColorStorm, but they are not radical like you. They don’t believe the bible is the literal word of god. The guy that killed those people at planned parenthood, did believe the bible was the literal word of god. The Times reporter interviewed a close relative of Dear’s Colorado girlfriend Stephanie Bragg, who said the couple were “very religious, read the Bible often and were always talking about scripture. Like many of the patriarchs mentioned in your bible who slaughtered people believing they were doing the work of the biblical god, Dear believed the same thing. No difference what so ever.
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Hmmm, so your family is ‘Christian,’ yet do not suffer from ‘temporal lobe’ damage, common to Christians, as you have said………Interesting there notes.
I should probably apologize to the host for asking but, you have steered this ship into your own rocks.
What separates a ‘Christian’ from a ‘radical?’
What does your family believe that is not a delusion, but still qualifies them as Christian?
What parts of the book do they get to selectively edit to make you happy with their brand of Christianity?
What are their ‘acceptable’ views on sin, righteousness, and judgment?
What are ‘acceptable’ beliefs for them, and how do YOU determine this, since you have by your own words, have disqualified yourself?
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ColorStorm,
Reread your post and ask yourself the same questions. What parts of the book do you get to selectively edit to make you happy with your brand of Christianity? Is your God Yahweh or not?
Btw, I don’t think every person who is a Christian has temporal lobe damage. I believe most are simply indoctrinated and/or have had neural circuitry associated with critical assessment, deactivated by reward neurotransmitters such as oxytocin and vassopressin, as the studies show.
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Ah, so then has your family ‘had neural circuitry associated with critical assessment, deactivated by reward neurotransmitters such as oxytocin and vassopressin, as the studies show………………….?’
Or has the spirit of God made them exempt? Careful how you answer.
Btw, as to your suggestion that I ‘edit’ the scriptures, uh, actually, I have learned to read in context, and understand that while all scripture is FOR us, it is not necessarily TO us………..there is this thing called ‘rightly dividing the word of truth,’ a concept that has apparently escaped you.
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Exempt from what?
I realize you need to believe to help you cope with life, to give you a sense of hope, and perhaps you need it to behave, but many people don’t need religion or belief in a god to cope with life or behave. Also, people kill for many causes, and in the bible, the mass slaughters were done in the name of your god and condoned by your god. Don’t pull that context nonsense on me. 😉
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No notes,
Just pointing out your selective hypocrisy in approving the ‘christianity’ of your family that you despise in others.
Your game is so yesterdays news. And context? Yeah, go learn what it means.
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It does take a good bit of cognitive dissonance to be your flavor of Christian. The kind who thinks he is the True Christian™. Dear thought he, too, was a True Christian™.
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Sighs a few times.
Fortunately, see that peach tree yonder? You don’t see gun metal covering the pits do you?
So then by their fruits ye shall know them. Draw your own conclusions to your own shame.
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I know by your fruits that you discriminate against women, the LGBT community, and believe that unbelievers or those who are not a True Christian™ will go to a hell your beloved god created. Now, that smells like rotten fruit. 😉
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Oh ms notes, do tell how I discriminate against women. Gotta see this.
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Do you believe that the husband has the rule over his wife, as commanded in Gensis 3:16, and that she is to obey and submit to her husband as noted by your beloved Paul? Let me guess, you also believe Eve’s baby picture was Adam’s rib. 😀
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Gee wiz ms notes, you must be getting tired at all the straining of gnats.
If you can’t get a grip on Genesis 1.1, I suppose you will have trouble with much easier things, such as the distinction, sphere, and purpose of male and female as rather remarkably designed by Him who holds all things together.
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I rest my case Mr. I’m a True Christian™.
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Another report from the Charleston Post and Courier claimed that Dear was obsessed with an interpretation of the Christian apocalypse, and used dark, bizarre theology to justify disturbing acts of domestic violence against his ex wife.
“He claims to be a Christian and is extremely evangelistic, but does not follow the Bible in his actions,” Mescher, Dear’s ex-wife, reportedly stated in an affidavit when she filed for divorce. “He says that as long as he believes he will be saved, he can do whatever he pleases. He is obsessed with the world coming to an end.”
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/12/01/3727084/yes-the-planned-parenthood-shooter-was-a-christian-terrorist/
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Btw, I’m sorry for your loss.
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I’m sorry to hear that Jim, but it seems the man was, indeed, a Christian, tipped over the edge by those faked anti-planned parenthood videos.
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I have followed this very closely, as you can imagine, and I haven’t seen that claim substantiated. I have heard people make the connection, but nothing has come out in the investigation that this guy was a christian or any type of church goer. He was registered to vote as an independent, which means nothing to me, but that information has come out.
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From the NYT’s
The Times reporter also interviewed a close relative of Dear’s Colorado girlfriend Stephanie Bragg, who said the couple were “very religious, read the Bible often and are always talking about scripture.”
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CS,
That comment of yours (4:25) – and I’m not the least bit surprised by it, btw – is the sort of inane commentary that keeps people shaking their heads at fundamentalists. . Jesus H. Christ.
Don’t ask me for an explanation; it would be a useless exercise on my part.
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Carmen I really struggle to understand why Christians seem to love guns so much. I thought the Bible said, ‘vengeance is mine says the Lord’. I think it just shows they don’t actually trust their God to protect them.
When I was ‘on fire for God’ about four years ago I stepped into the middle of a street brawl between two groups of three people confident God would protect me. I said to the bigger tougher folk who were just about to beat up three teeangers, ‘they are not worth it guys, let them go’, they scowled at me, stopped, started to come forward, stopped again, scowled again and left. I acted with absolute confidence, because I knew God was with me.
Looking back I realise I was lucky they did not beat me up too.
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Peter,
I don’t understand why ANYONE needs gun. As I have said to others, I am 58 years old; hubby is 62. NEVER ONCE in our lives have either of us been a situation where we even thought we needed a gun. As a matter of fact, we wouldn’t even buy squirt guns for our kids when they were little – to both of us, toy gun is an oxymoron. So I really just don’t get the obsession with them. Although we do have gun enthusiasts here in Canada (I have two on my FB feed) they tend to be people who hunt, not people who are convinced they need them for protection of home and family. THAT I just don’t understand. Perhaps if I lived in an area where there was a high crime rate, frequent break-ins – that sort of thing – I might feel differently. But then I’d probably move. 🙂
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Colorstorm, was there anything about the video that made you think there might be an odd attitude to guns in some parts of America? Nothing that made you doubt it’s odd to suggest more guns are needed when guns are killing people?
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Odd Violet? Other than the vulgar clown with the monkey on his shirt trying to make a case?
Which is worse Violet, a man who kills another with a gun, or a man who steals a school bus and drives 65 people over a cliff? Surely we should outlaw buses………….
For God’s sake, a Boy Scout knife is considered a weapon in a society where all school boys had them in their pockets with nary an incident.
Political correctness incites more stupidity. But the vid being odd? Only that you think it is credible, yeah that is odd.
What liberal that opposes the right to arms can stand in a field with Clint Eastwood, Charles Bronson, or John Wayne and make an argument?
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Interesting questions, thanks. I appreciate your input. The last question in particular leaves me speechless. 🙂
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They have one thing in common Vi, they are distinctively masculine; the ‘doogie howsers’ of the world disallow any rational thought.
This shouldn’t leave you speechless.
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So you’ll be voting for Bernie Sanders then, Colourstorm?
Good for you!
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Honestly, I’m beginning to wonder if you surpass SOM in your glory. Maybe that’s why he’s gone so quiet recently. 🙂
Can I ask a personal question though? Have you been to creative writing type classes or is your gift natural? Are you a writer in real life? I’m not mocking, before any of my more extreme blog buddies say anything rude, you have a unique expression style.
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That’s mighty nice of you violet. No classes, no writing job-
(Although I sent letters/samples years ago only to get the ‘thanks but no thanks) That’s fine, to every thing there is a purpose…….
Maybe someone will steal your commendation 😉
Now back to earth: if you appreciate the fresh water, why don’t you accept the source? 😉
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right to arms… No, CS, the right to bear arms is aimed directly, but conveniently ignored, to the maintenance of a well regulated militia. As long as every gun owner belongs to a militia and whose weapons meet its mission guidelines, then we’re good: the right has been maintained. The problem is that Americans don’t bear arms for this purpose.
You know it. I know it. Every American knows it.
So why do Americans feel such a need to own guns? From my Canadian perspective with many American kin those south of the border seem convinced that they must do so out of a conspiracy-wrapped, fear-fueled notion that adding more guns to the 300,000,000 guns already in circulation in the US will magically produce a different result. Most Americans haven’t a clue why they have a Constitutional right to bear arms and so they unable to rationally respond to the problem as it actually exists, namely, that citizens killing other citizens by the use of guns cause more deaths self-inflicted to its civilian population far in access of ALL US military casualties combined from war since 1776.
Think about that fact.
What we’re seeing is a socially induced mental illness in action: American people believing that doing more of the same will produce a different result, that citizens will be safer with accessibility to more guns. That’s lunacy. Guns owned by Americans are almost entirely designed to kill other people. And they do with amazing efficiency and in vast numbers. It takes little time and almost no expertise to kill many people quickly with today’s firearms and unrestricted access to ammunition aimed at furthering that goal. Doing the same with a frying pan is much less efficient and far more work. But I know the spiel… frying pans don’t kill people: people kill people… so of course a gun should be even less regulated than frying pans currently are.
You see, Americans can’t even talk rationally about addressing this death scourge caused by guns because they don’t believe guns are the problem. You fall into this camp of believing stuff contrary to reality: guns are, in fact, a problem and the more than 1,500,000 dead American citizens – increasing by more than 90 per day compared to almost none by frying pan – are not some imaginary product of political correctness: they are very real corpses killed on a daily basis by guns owned by private citizens… guns never intending them to be the arms trained for and then supplied to the local militia in times of civic unrest and foreign invasion.
By refusing to address the real problem – the proliferation and accessibility of guns throughout American society – you are then part of the additional problem: those whose cognitive functioning becomes severely impaired and reality denied when thinking about the real problem.
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Way to go tildeb, spoken like a foreigner.
You said: –Guns owned by Americans are almost entirely designed to kill other people.–
And with this one sentence, you have forfeited ant semblance of credibility.
Currently, it is ‘gun season’ that’s right, whitetail deer hunting, and there are millions, yes, millions of people in the fields and forest who would not dream of hurting a human being.
One cannot reason with such a perverse point of view that you suggest.
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Killing for entertainment. How lovely
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How about this thou master of fraudulence:
The slothful man eats that which he took not in hunting………….
While you lazily plucked the cherries off the store shelf, there were actually people who hunted down those yummie treats by honest labor.
As to deer hunting, venison is rather tasty when cooked properly.
Once more, common sense shuts you down.
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Do you kill for entertainment, Colourstorm?
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15 – 18% isn’t massively significant CS. http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-gun-owners-outnumbered-hunters-5-1-2011
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Hmm. These percentages are not significant… ? yet you fail to see the zero per cent of christians who kill Jews in Israel, either by gun or rocks…….
Don’t confuse law abiding good citizens violet, with your run of the mill monster.
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I’m liking the dots ….. and random unrelated thoughts. You suggested that Tildeb as a foreigner didn’t realise that most of the guns in the USA are used for killing animals for fun. I gave you statistics that show that’s not the case, with less than a fifth being used to entertain humans by killing other animals for fun. Israel, rocks ……?
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Just pointing out that the story line of ‘christian’ terrorists is bogus Violet, that’s all.
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Oh really, Colourstorm?
From the NYT’s
The Times reporter also interviewed a close relative of Dear’s Colorado girlfriend Stephanie Bragg, who said the couple were “very religious, read the Bible often and are always talking about scripture.”
Another report from the Charleston Post and Courier claimed that Dear was obsessed with an interpretation of the Christian apocalypse, and used dark, bizarre theology to justify disturbing acts of domestic violence against his ex wife.
So, yes, Dear was indeed a Christian Terrorist
Deal with it.
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Oh how you would love to have this narrative of yours true there jzande. Please, since your credibility has slipped in the polls, you are in no position to decide who is Christian.
Who cares if he has a bible; who cares if he quotes scripture? There is a good chance YOU sir, quote more scripture than him…………
I suppose this makes you the model believer? Please, don’t argue a point in which you have clearly and absolutely lost.
Perhaps you missed the recent post by insanitybytess22, which is quite revealing,yea, some daylight there. (CS song? Vain?)
Then again, it really is hard to argue against the light of day, so good call on your part by keeping quiet there.
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Can’t say I saw it. Was it another post about me? Insanity seems quite obsessed with me at the moment.
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Actually, jz, it is about the finer things in life. Go take a stroll.
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Nah
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No, it;s not CS. See this post about stochastic terrorism. It describes Christian terrorism to a tee.
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Methinks that anyone who can say, “(My) god is real!” is adept at telling himself that something else ISN’T.
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Oh my goodness Tildeb, will nothing make you stop and think?? You just ‘liked’ a comment that SOM (that’s Silence of Mind) made! He’s programmed to make ridiculous statements, and you can’t even do a double take when you’re agreeing with him. Amazing.
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Imagine my shock, VW! He actually wrote something I agree with, so – after a bout of the vapors – I figured he left out a few negatives or something. When I rechecked, it was still there so, yeah, I liked what he wrote and clicked accordingly.
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Hey tildeb-
Do tell us unlearned ones WHERE in the New Testament, a believer has been guilty of being a ‘terrorist.’
No, it wasn’t Saul of Tarsus. No, it was at the death of Sapphira and her husband.
Take your time, yea, take a few years doing a thorough search.
Since you are defining the parameters, show the proof of this alleged terrorism in the book that defines Christianity.
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I don’t know, CS, but don’t you think the terrorism idea might have come from the ‘main man/spirit’ himself?? Lots of terrifying things were carried out, ‘in the name of’. . . just wondering.
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(EDIT correction first: should read: ‘It was NOT at the hands of Sapphira and her husband) sorry bout that)
There is a time for peace, and a time for war carmen.
It appears there is enough guilt to go around today on many fronts in the terrorism department.
Grace and terrorism are not twins by the way.
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Once again, CS, I am shaking my head at your response. .
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Shaking or scratching? I’m squinting at the screen wondering if that will bring any light …
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That’s good then carmen, but it will take more than a few shake, rattles, and rolls, to clear the cobwebs.
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Deb,
Who gets to decide what constitutes a well regulated militia for the American people, you or the UN?
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Obviously each State as it currently does.
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Hi, guys — you may be interested in this cultural-religious experiment:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3349272/Pranksters-film-people-s-shocked-reactions-reading-violent-passages-Bible-told-Koran.html
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Thanks for the link. That’s a great idea and makes an excellent point. Here’s a link to the video itself if anyone is interested:
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Emma,
Seems to me I’ve seen that one today – wait a minute, on some smart guy’s blog. . . 😉
Those two young fellows are onto something. . .
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Not seeing a short video in your OP.
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It’s the post
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Thanks John. Who was the beast that wrote that?
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Wrote what?
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“Thanks to John Zande for finding this.”
Finding what? lol
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Oh, the video.
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I give up. 😀
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He’s Australian. Sometimes you have to type in crayon. 😉
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Thanks for the tip.
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I am nothing but helpful. 😉
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I have a sneaking feeling I’m missing something here. Can’t you see the video V posted?
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Nope, can’t see the video.
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Are you using a phone? I couldn’t see it on the phone but try on PC
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Ah, not its beginning to make sense. Here, can you see this one:
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Thanks John. Once I removed the html I was able to do a search and found it on YT. 🙂
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*now, not not.
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Hi Victoria, I couldn’t see the video in the post quick view thing or on my phone, no idea how that works. Maybe something to do with the html? You’d have to be in the post proper to see it.
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Hey Violet, I wasn’t viewing your post from a phone or quickview/reader. I was and still am directly reading the post. John did leave the URL in his post, which I can’t see, but was able to see it from my WP notification. It’s a FaceBook URL. I suspect your template and my browser are not always compatible. This has happened only one other time, and that was when John posted a video on his blog using a FB URL, and I wasn’t the only one who couldn’t see it.
This is what I’m getting from my notification window.
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That’s weird, I remember you having problems with my theme before, but I guess this is just a Facebook link thing in WP. Did you get to see the video yet?
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I just searched for it on YouTube and found it.
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I’ll avoid Facebook videos in the future.
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Watching that video reminded me of when the US went to war with Iraq, one of the weapons manufacturers (Trijicon) inscribed scriptures on rifle scopes. The Defense Department was a major customer of Trijicon’s. In 2009 alone, the Marine Corps signed deals worth $66 million for the company’s products.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/military/2010-01-19-Military-weapons_N.htm
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Oh wow! That’s amazing. Gobsmacked …
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Brilliant video. There is something though about being able to defend yourself when the police or the swat team haven’t gotten there to stop some crazed gunman. I don’t own a weapon myself, but if I felt it was necessary to protect my family I would.
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I can understand that. It’s a vision that’s been sold to Americas for generations and its the kind of ‘protection’ indoctrination that can’t be easily washed out. There’s a question about how long you let that cycle spiral though. ‘I have a gun because you might have a gun’ inevitably leads to more death, but who’s going to risk not having a gun to cut the cycle? Maybe someone who looks at gun statistics and realises you’re more likely to get killed by a gun if you have one …
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full
“Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.”
Or this:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2013/mar/25/guns-protection-national-rifle-association
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The studies all show that the most likely person to be killed by a gun in your home is a member of your family not an intruder. But sadly just like religion, emotion causes common sense and reasoning to be thrown in the dustbin.
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Not sure I see the right of self defense and protection as a false indoctrinated vision.
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No, it’s the fact that you see having a gun as being self defense and protection that is the false indoctrinated vision. Aside from the occasional individual anecdote, what body of research has led you do conclude this? None, it’s cultural indoctrination. It’s the normal understanding in your society, backed up by urban myths and random stories, and it’s difficult to fully process the picture outside of that, don’t you think?
What do you think of all the studies that demonstrate you are more likely to be killed by a firearm if you have a firearm? From your point of view are they lies, misleading or irrelevant?
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I don’t own a gun, but ad I said, if I felt I needed one to protect my family if get one
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So you think guns protect families?
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They are a tool.
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*Violet stops banging head on brick wall* 🙂
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Lol. Sorry. I’m not going to change your mind, nor vice versa
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Well, if you want to give me some facts backed up by research, or explain my my facts back up by research are irrelevant, I might understand why you think you’re not indoctrinated. 🙂
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Let’s all be understanding of our American friends. Most of us come from countries with no 2nd amendment and where even though most of the policy makers are daft, they had a light bolt moment to outlaw assault riffles in the hands of civilians.
Someday they will be in luck too.
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I saw some of the conversation with gipsika in the last post (need to go back and read it all) but I think she has a point. Sometimes things are so far gone, it’s difficult for individuals to choose the bigger picture over personal safety. What’s gun crime like where you are? I was thinking that places like the UK and Australia can have more effective control because we’re islands and guns never really got out of hand in the first place. As you say, given that the USA has gone so long with daft policy, there are too many guns, everywhere, too much of a market, and their borders further complicate any attempt to get rid of them. I just wish the gun lobby would acknowledge that less guns are less death, so some kind of cultural change in attitude can at least get underway.
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I don’t have the actual stats for gun crimes. There are people who own guns. They are the monied, I guess. Not anyone can buy a gun.
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Violet,
If guns are outlawed, then only outlaws will have guns…
…Think about it.
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Criminals don’t typically go on killing sprees, SOM. Crazy people do.
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Is that true? Not specifically criminals certainly, but I think you’re contributing to the stigmatisation of a vulnerable minority group with that kind of throwaway remark. Angry extremists, frustrated young people with injustice and hormones, people with violent pasts and no voice – surely these are more likely. Let me check on that.
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Fair point, but I think you know what i mean. Take the Sandy Hook killer. He didn’t go to the school to rob it. The guy the other day who killed the 7 year old girl and her mother at soccer practice… he was a paranoid schizophrenic, but he was a license gun owner. The point being, criminals don’t leave their house with an eye to mass murder, or even murder at all.
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Yes, I agree with you. But maybe from SOM’s point of view he’ll be an easier target for crime. In a world where criminals have guns, having one of your own would be a deterrent.
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Just hearing on the news there are calls for Donald Trump to be banned from entering the UK. Interesting. Is your president getting impeached today?
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The process has already started. The selection of the execution panel is being finalised now, but it’ll take a while before she loses her head. They’re all idiots.
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Sounds like fun! They’re having fun in Argentina too. Apparently Cristina has emptied all the accounts and there’s no money to pay anyone …
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And is anyone surprised? Her and Googly-eyes were criminals from the beginning. I don’t think Dilma is a criminal (not like everyone else), just thoroughly incompetent.
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I think Trump is a Republican plant. They know they can’t win the election, they’re just too insane, so they have thrown him there to make their other candidates seem half-way reasonable.
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I thought he was way in the lead though? Plant gone wrong? You know, just when you think life can’t get any scarier than George W. being in power, America brings you Trump …
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Come’on…. $arah Palin and Batshitcrazy Michelle Buchmann were worse than Bush
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http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php
Fact 1: The vast majority of people with mental illness are not violent.
Here is what researchers say about the link between mental illness and violence:
– “Although studies suggest a link between mental illnesses and violence, the contribution of people with mental illnesses to overall rates of violence is small, and further, the magnitude of the relationship is greatly exaggerated in the minds of the general population (Institute of Medicine, 2006).”
– “…the vast majority of people who are violent do not suffer from mental illnesses (American Psychiatric Association, 1994).”
– “The absolute risk of violence among the mentally ill as a group is very small. . . only a small proportion of the violence in our society can be attributed to persons who are mentally ill (Mulvey, 1994).”
-“People with psychiatric disabilities are far more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violent crime (Appleby, et al., 2001). People with severe mental illnesses, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or psychosis, are 2 ½ times more likely to be attacked, raped or mugged than the general population (Hiday, et al.,1999).”
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I know this, and appreciate the point. The Christian with the gun in the video is far, far, far more dangerous. Hell, every student at Liberty University is more dangerous today… Their President has told them to arm themselves and kill Muslims.
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I like this way of expressing it too, can’t vouch for the source, but I think it’s true. There’s often a retrospective mental health diagnosis in the more prominent cases that give the impression what you said is true, because we refuse to accept the killers had ‘reasons’.
“What’s also interesting is the way “The real issue is mental illness” is deployed against mass murderers the way it’s deployed in general — as a way to discredit their own words. When you call someone “mentally ill” in this culture it’s a way to admonish people not to listen to them, to ignore anything they say about their own actions and motivations, to give yourself the authority to say you know them better than they know themselves.”
http://www.salon.com/2015/06/18/its_not_about_mental_illness_the_big_lie_that_always_follows_mass_shootings_by_white_males/
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Actually, excellent article generally, well worth a read.
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John,
The law doesn’t discriminate against sane and crazy, saint or sinner.
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I say, thank God, and thank guns, but not John Zande!
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SOM, you never did answer me. Would you, a Catholic, feel safe if Evangelicals seized control of the US government?
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Violet, thought you might find this interesting. One of the main arguments I hear with regard to people owning guns is that they do so for self-defense. Here’s what 10 studies show:
1 -3 ) Guns are not used millions of times each year in self-defense.
4) Most purported self-defense gun uses are gun uses in escalating arguments and are both socially undesirable and illegal.
5) Firearms are used far more often to intimidate than in self-defense.
6) Guns in the home are used more often to intimidate intimates than to thwart crime.
7) Adolescents are far more likely to be threatened with a gun than to use one in self-defense.
8) Criminals who are shot are typically the victims of crime.
9-10. Few criminals are shot by decent law abiding citizens.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/
According to the FBI’s Supplemental Homicide Report in 2012, there were 259 justifiable homicides. In the same year, 8,342 criminal homicides using guns, 20,666 suicides with guns, and 548 fatal unintentional shootings. The ratio for 2012, per the Violence Policy Center, was one justifiable killing for every 32 murders, suicides or accidental deaths (the ratio increases to 38-1 over the five-year period ending in 2012).
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-guns-self-defense-charleston-20150619-story.html
I should note that I’ve never personally owned a gun, and was never raised in a family who owned a gun. The only two times I was exposed to gun violence was when my husband killed himself with his shotgun, and when someone broke into our home when I was a kid, and held us at gunpoint. Had we owned a gun, there is no way we would have been able to defend ourselves, as the gunman was hiding in our home when we got home. We were not aware he had broken in.
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Thanks Victoria. The justifiable deaths are particularly interesting – there’s an underlying assumption, at least from the gun lobby side, that without a gun the outcome would have been fatal the other way. But of course we have no way of knowing. The argument that ‘a gun saved my life’ can never be proved. We can only be sure when they take lives.
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Those stats are rather intriguing. I didn’t know that most gun related deaths are self inflicted. That makes sense, when you think about it the sheer number of guns owned by Americans. Perhaps that would make the gun manufactures a part of the assisted suicide movement?
I wonder if the 259 people who used a gun to save their own lives, at least in theory, are glad they had their gun? Probably.
What I have notices, from my cheap seats in the back row, is that every time a political leader like the President of the US, talks about curtailing the 2nd amendment and/or limiting gun rights, two things occur simultaneously:
1. People who own guns interpret the words to mean “They are going to take our guns away” and as a result gun sales soar through the roof.
2. Nothing ever really changes.
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Jim, after Australia enacted its gun ban, suicide rates by firearm fell by 65 percent in the decade after the law was introduced.
And this is from the Guardian is interesting:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/18/gun-violence-waco-texas-shot
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That makes sense, since there are far less firearms there now. The overall suicide rate is still just a little lower than the US and it is climbing again. I guess when a person really wants to end their life, they will find a way, with or without a gun.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/26/australias-suicide-rate-climbs-as-experts-declare-a-national-tragedy
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Really interesting Jim, thanks for finding that. I think the rise in suicide rates in Australia is due to their own national tradegy:
“racially Aboriginal peoples endure horrific statistics unparalleled by the rest of Australia – horrific high incarceration rates impute racialised imprisonment, horrific high homelessness rates impute racialised neglect, and the horrific high suicide rates impute not only racialised neglect but criminal neglect….Aboriginal peoples around the world endure disproportionate high rates of suicide, but Australia’s divide between its national average and its Aboriginal peoples is one of the world’s worst, with Australia’s Aboriginal youth suicide rate the worst. In total, Australia’s Aboriginal suicide rates are higher than those of every African country, third-world countries included, and higher than every country on the planet, with the exception of Greenland.”
https://independentaustralia.net/australia/australia-display/the-australian-aboriginal-suicide-epidemic,5818
Apart from the particular circumstances related to the horrible situation for many aboriginals in Australia, you’re missing a major point about suicide that makes guns tragically relevant.
““Studies show that most attempters act on impulse, in moments of panic or despair. Once the acute feelings ease, 90 percent do not go on to die by suicide.” But few can survive a gun blast.”
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/
There was a well known equivalent ‘easy’ suicide option in the UK – coal gas ovens. Once they were phased out the suicide rate dropped by a third, and stayed there. Some people will carefully plan a suicide and get hold of what they need in advance. But for most, it’s about a moment of desperation that they usually can’t act on. Look at the bridge example here too:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/struck-living/201012/can-obstacle-prevent-suicide
Guns, open bridges and coal gas ovens are all tragically relevant, and sensible controls and changes can make a world of difference to thousands of lives.
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Which is why it is so much easier to waste a class room full of kids with an automatic pistol than to go on a rampage with a frying pan.
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That really is sad. Just last week one of my teenage students good friends killed himself in front of him using a gun. Tragic and senseless.
I don’t know if you saw this article in the NYtimes today, but it talks about what causes Americans to buy guns: Terrorism, Obama and Calls for Restrictions. It is a very interesting read.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/10/us/gun-sales-terrorism-obama-restrictions.html.
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One Solution: Dildos, Dildos, Dildos
Matt Haughey created a Tumblr page where he took photos of politicians holding guns and replaced the guns with dildos using Photoshop. The images are hilarious. 😀
http://gopdildo.tumblr.com/
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On Guns:
The South African farming community is pretty much all armed, rifles at least. This is Africa and farming out here requires some sort of immediate response to drive away or shoot animals that may come looking for a ”free meal” or trample crops.
It can be taken as a given that most farmers are well-versed in the ways of guns.
Ironically, even though these folk generally have more firearms per capita than anywhere outside the military/police the farming community has suffered more murders than any other single community in the country.
Can anyone explain why, with all the firearms at their disposal they are apparently being systematically slaughtered?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_farm_attacks
And this is just one utterly dumb response from one gun association out here.
The Black Gun Owners Association of South Africa is challenging the loss of revenue and employment, and is seeking compensation for the loss of income. Furthermore, it is challenging the political motivations of the act as Abios Khoele, chairperson of the Black Gun Owners Association,[7] told a press briefing in Johannesburg: “This government is hell-bent on disarming black people because they’ve made so many service delivery promises to them which they have not fulfilled. They are scared that if blacks are armed they will turn on the government.”[8][9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_legislation_in_South_Africa#Criticism_and_legal_challenges
“It has been argued that armed violence and systemic poverty and inequality are linked and that countries that experience entrenched forms of armed violence risk getting trapped in cycles of under-development,” the researchers said.
“This review suggests that the chances of breaking out of the cycle of armed violence and under-development are improved when efforts are made on both fronts.”
http://businesstech.co.za/news/government/91284/south-africa-is-the-second-worst-country-for-gun-deaths-in-the-world/
Oh, and for the record ….. Colorstorm? You are a farking idiot.
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This insult coming from a person who says Moses never lived…………..
……….that THE first rainbow was merely a serendipitous accident……………
……………..that Paul the apostle is a fabrication….. ………..
…………and that little stone gods are more credible than the One True God…………..
Please. But thank you for the compliment.
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Yes, you’re right, CS, as all true scholars know,everyone’s favorite murderer and octogenarian mountain climber, Moses,was a real , hot dang god-fearin, person who saw God’s arse.
However, none of this changes the fact that you are a farking idiot.
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“Ironically, even though these folk generally have more firearms per capita than anywhere outside the military/police the farming community has suffered more murders than any other single community in the country.”
Says it all, doesn’t it? I probably would have killed someone by now if I had easy access to a gun. I’m impulsive and quick to anger. Keep them away from me. 😉
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I got in a fight with the pamonha man a few years ago. It got a little out of control. I punched him in the head, he tried to run me over. Interesting evening. A gun in that mix would have been bad.
Now, in my defence, watch this video (its from somewhere in Brazil) and imagine this a-hole parked outside your house at 7pm on a Sunday.
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Seems to me jz the issue is the car……….gotta outlaw the auto for the potential of killing another human being………..yep, a global confiscation of cars, those big evil machines of power than run people over.
Yep they start themselves, they apply the trigger of the pedal by themselves, they accelerate automatically, and ply their craft of deception and evil upon an unsuspecting audience.
Evil cars, Bad cars. Cars kill people. Cars plow into crowds at football events………..yep, all by themselves. Bad bad cars.
But the thought would never cross your mind as to WHAT to do with what leads to the car being driven off the cliff……………….. as in anger and hatred being the fuel……
So you watch the perp drive a car over the rocks killing five, while you complain about a lousy gun in a closet being unused.
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CS, if people were using cars to deliberately end the lives of others, you might start to have a point. But as the perpetrator of any violence with cars is as likely to be hurt as their intended victim, car wielding murder is not a popular action. Gun wielding murder is.
Car safety is taken seriously because you’re right that the death rate is unacceptable. That’s why we all wear seatbelts now (cuts the death rate immensely) and that’s why places have speed limits (cuts the death rate immensely). In a similar way, to cut death rates immensely, most countries have a sensible level of gun control, and do you know what that does? It cuts the death rate immensely.
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It was pure sarcasm V, but the greater point is the ‘intent.’
A killer will find a way.
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“A killer will find a way.”
Nice words. Show me some research that backs that up. Death by firearm isn’t restricted to pre-meditated murder, in fact that hardly starts to show the picture. Accidental death, suicide, impulsive crimes of passion – what stats are you imagining?
“Since January 1st, 2013 there have been 11 reported gun fatalities involving preschool children as the shooter. Ten more toddlers have accidentally shot themselves or somebody else this year. And this statistic represents only data for which a toddler is the shooter in a death (MotherJones reports that 71 children have been killed by guns since Newtown).
The BBC originally reported on this phenomenon in 2009 when, in the span of 24 hours, two children were shot by their toddler siblings. In both cases, the deaths were a result of improperly secured weapons.”
Would these toddlers have found another way?
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Sorry Vi, but that is a poor example. The toddlers were hardly killers.
‘Killers will find a way.’ I stand by that.
And if there is negligence on the part of a gun owner, he/she should be dealt with accordingly.
Unfortunate accidents yes, as there are myriads of ways kids die by accident.
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Yes, they used to die in their 1000s in cars, before we introduced safe child seats. They used to die in their millions down mines and up chimneys before banned letting kids die working. When you give guns out like candy, they are going to be victims. If you don’t think that’s worth dealing with, other than blaming the idiot that bought a gun like a piece of candy, I’m speechless.
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Cars are highly regulated. You need to sit and pass exams, you need to be a certain age, you need to renew your licence, they are not given to people who are incapable of handling them… and they’re typically quite expensive.
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True john, fully agree.
But if the time ever came, you would wish you were able to protect you or yours-
The death of one loved one cannot be compared to a hundred strangers. That’s a fact.
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Do you carry a gun at all times, Colourstorm?
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“But if the time ever came, you would wish you were able to protect you or yours-
The death of one loved one cannot be compared to a hundred strangers. That’s a fact.”
Another fact – you and your loved ones are more likely to be killed by a gun if you keep a gun – through accident, suicide or a botch job at ‘protection’ when it comes to the crunch and you fire your gun at the gun-wielding criminal/terrorist. What part of that do you think is worth ignoring in your pursuit of hoarding instruments of death?
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Found this sitting in a file. Interesting reading
http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ask_this.view&askthisid=491
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Hey to break it to you violet, I have tools far more dangerous than guns. Ever used a chain saw?
But listen to your own lack of logic violet- ‘fire at a gun wielding criminal/terrorist………..’
Uh violet, at least you would have SOME chance……………..without it, you are dead, plain and simple.
I prefer life thank you. By the way, gun owners that I know are skilled and practice accordingly.
No body is looking for a gunfight…………but if some dare threaten your life or your spouse, children etc, yeah, it would behoove you to do everything in your power to protect them.
Even mama bears will tear you apart if you harm her cubs.
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*so many brick walls, so little time*
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There is always the trumpet of Jericho, which has been proven to level many a brick rather easily. just sayin V.
It’s not about time though, it’s about purpose. 😉
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Colourstorm,
Do you carry a gun at all times?
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It is not prudent at ‘all’ times jz.
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Just answer a straight question with a straight answer for once, will you
Do you walk around with a gun? Do you take a gun shopping? Do you drive with a gun handy?
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I’ll take your silence to mean, “Yes, i do carry a loaded gun at all times.”
Great. Nice to see you follow Jesus and his specific instructions delivered in the Sermon on the Mount. You’re quite the Christian, Colourstorm.
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What was the specific instruction?
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For one, turning the other cheek, meaning non-violence at all times. Not original to Jesus, obviously, but repeated by him.
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Ah, of course. But did he not say if you couldn’t get your cheek round, a gun would do the trick?
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That’s in the appendix, written by US Republican Evangelicals. There Jesus says “preemptive violence and bloodshed is the way to the Lord!”
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“I punched him in the head, he tried to run me over.”
Not how I imagine you John! I thought you were a pacifist!!
But yes, add guns to any angry mix …
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Well, it started out with me politely asking him to move his frighteningly loud circus on. He refused. He actually refused. We spoke some more. Then he went all Brazilian macho. Now, being Australian, I have a low tolerance level for nonsense like that. He then started to try and get in my face, Brazilian-macho style. So, being Australian, I throttled him. It wasn’t that hard. I didn’t try to knock him out. I could have, but i didn’t. I just walked away as he picked himself up from the street. That’s when he leapt back in his car and tried to run me over… and that was when I lost my temper for real, and I think he realised he was in serious trouble at that moment. So, after reversing his car from my driveway, he sped away.
Not pretty, but…
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It seems that the US citizens do not trust their police to be able to protect them, if their reason to own guns is to defend themselves from criminals. Why? Because the US police recieve a ridiculous education of mere 6 months, perhaps? Here in Finland we think people who would want to purchase a gun to protect themselves generally deranged and trying to get a permit with that reason might lead to psychiatric evaluation. However, if I lived in the US, maybe I would not trust their police any more than other US citizens generally do and purchased myself a gun just for that purpose. At least I have a plenty of gun training and experience, unlike most US gun owners, not to hurt myself or anyone with it accidentally.
In Finland we are having trouble from the new suggestion for a EU directive to limit ownership of self loading firearms (semi-automatic) to prevent terrorism, as most of those here Finnish people own are infact their training guns for the volunteer military reserve. We do not have a professional army like most other EU countries have, rather we have a conscript system that involves almost all of our male population and every woman who volunteers for it. We rely on our large army reserve (part of wich I am) to provide us as an unnallied neutral country with a plausible self defence force. It has served us before in history and we still are the neighbours of Russia. None of these semi-automatic assault rifles has ever been used in a crime nor in terrorism. None of them have been used to prevent any terrorism, nor crimes. They are allowed to reliable individuals whose mental state is under frequent evaluation of their peers in the army reserve.
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“Because the US police recieve a ridiculous education of mere 6 months, perhaps?”
Wow! That’s an interesting fact I hadn’t heard before. A quick google shows that every other developed country I can see is a minimum one year and up to four years training. It would be interesting to read more about it.
“None of these semi-automatic assault rifles has ever been used in a crime nor in terrorism. None of them have been used to prevent any terrorism, nor crimes.”
If dp drops by he’ll be furious at you, and Finland, again. Oh, the trials of jealousy. 🙂
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Here, just dumped this article onto the SA portal:
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Amazingly enough, the gun lobby use Scotland as an example to support their case! It’s amazing how they can misrepresent facts. We’re the most violent country in Europe if I remember correctly. Of course the logical conclusion is that given our propensity for violence, it’s just as well we don’t have free access to killing sticks. Imagine the mess. Like you and that guy with the loud van.
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It’s the peat bogs and tartan that make you folk so violent.
And it wasn’t me who would have shot the van guy, rather him shooting me. Guns and that hot Latino blood are not a good mix.
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