comment of the month – conservative gender roles
The conservative anti-feminist man would prefer for their wife to take up the role of their mother in washing their laundry and tending to kids, and the conservative anti-feminist woman would like their husband to take the role of their father as the sole provider for the family, so that they do not have to. In my opinion these people should have the right to live their lives as they choose, but I get a bit aggravated when they also try to impose their values on the rest of the society. (rautakyy)
Human beings are pattern-seeking, simplistic creatures. We grow up watching role-models and many of us want to live our lives in the ‘ideal’ fashion we think we viewed in the golden age of childhood. For some people, this entailed the father of the family being the sole bread-winner and the mother taking care of the home and family. What is the rationale for wanting to continue this stereotypical set-up? Let’s look at some of the facts about this seemingly basic arrangement:
- Women have always worked! In fields, in factories, in classrooms, as businesswomen, as nurses. Why on earth in the day of modern electric conveniences and family planning would they choose to live up to the lie that a woman’s place is in a home?
- Men can work part-time too! Is there a quiet revolution of changing attitudes where men are realising that full-time work till you hit your 60s isn’t really that great an option for life? Men want to spend quality time with their families too, men like to cook and clean and make their home beautiful too. Men, like women, like having time to do things other than working.
I’m ever hopeful that Big Change is coming. We’re not talking about women ‘having it all’. We’re talking about people having it all – the opportunity for every individual and every family to shape their life the way it suits their circumstances and aspirations. And if the conservatives want to rigidly follow fictitious roles that generally lead straight to home-life depression and work-life hypertension, we should let them make those decisions. Maybe the next generation will have a proper look around and come to their senses.
We can hope, VW.
I think I’m being impatient. These things tend to take several centuries …. 😦
It may seem that way but – if European history is anything to go by – populations tend to reach a tipping point and suddenly the numbers go from being a slight majority to widespread change accepted as ‘just the way it is’. With the younger generation so wired, my hope is that this majority will be achieved sooner than later.
People can and do have it all.
In Christian Western Civilization, that is.
This post as usual for Violet, starts off with a hallucination from one of her favorite alternative universes, in this case the Rautakyy alternative universe.
You do realise there is plenty of evidence to show that women are still marginalised, even in the West right?
I have had more women managers than men managers.
And my work history goes back to the 1970’s.
So 1 in 6 women in the US aren’t being raped? A woman’s sexual history isn’t a factor in assault cases?
DT, shhh… reality perturbs SoM’s silence of mind.
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Your “reality” is a big fat lie.
Get over it.
My lies aren’t fat; I work them out so often – you know, bringing reality into focus to examine your supernatural claims about it – that are actually quite sleek.
SOM thinks women run the Catholic Church. You can’t reason with him.
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Everything I say, you can see for yourself, if you’d only open your mind.
Well, Silenceofmind, I hope you feel relieved for having said as much. However, I also hope you do realize, that your comment is an empty assertion, that women have it all, backed up only by another empty assertion, that Violetwisp is hallucinating, wich again is merely backed up by yet a nother emtpy assertion, that I have some alternative universe to offer. You present no actual facts to back up your chain of thought. Do you?
Your perception of the issue is an obvious mistake, as you base your view on the position of women on your own, obviously very narrow, experience, wich does seem to go against all the studies done in this field and the universal view sociology (you know, the science that studies such things) holds on the position of women in the western societies. Not to mention the position of women in other societies than the western culture. We have conservative fundamentalists in other societies, and in many of them when the conservatives have more politcal leverage, than in the west in general, the position of women is respectively worse. Why is that?
Oh and before you go there, it is idle babble to claim, the better position of women in the west is due to Christianity in comparrison to – say Islam – as long as most of Christendoms history, women have had it pretty much as bad as they have had in Islamic countries. The betterment of the position of women in western countries is not an achievement of the conservatives, nor is it due to Christianity, but because of secularization and rationalism. Finding higher morals from the reality around us and actual human interaction, than from some obscure ancient scriptures.
However, as you seem so easily impressed by anecdotes about personal experiences, I have one for you too. My homecountry is rated among the most equal in the world and we have strict legistlation for women to have the same pay for same work, but for me it was a revelation to work for a very brief time in a factory where the majority of workers were women. In metal industry the average working man here gets a fair salary, but for the same type of work these women (and all the few men in the same jobs within the company) were getting substantially lower wages. Why do you suppose that was? The company was not braking the law, as it payed everybody the same salary for same job, but it was still a lot less than in the same field of work in general. Everyting within that company from salaries to safety issues, was stretched to the very minimum the law allowed for workers. The obvious reason was, that the women acted like they had been taught to act from little children. They were fearfull, respectfull and not much different from slaves. They did not stand up and fight for their salaries, safety, or other rights. Now, as I have also had the benefit of having personally known some female workers union activists, I know this behaviour model is not an inherent feature of being a female, but a culturally taught behaviour model.
Do you accept my personal experience as evidence of anything? If not, why should I take yours as evidence of anything? Do you have an alternative expalantion as to why the women in my story did not raise to their rights? Do you have an alternative explanation to why they were underpayed in comparrison to factories with male workers?
People demand on “Biblical Gender Roles” more insistently precisely because they don’t like them. They have been told they are righteous, and if they have to suffer so should everyone else.
That’s a good point. I guess there’s no telling what people will inflict on themselves if they think it’s for a mystical greater good.
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I listened to an interesting case yesterday: the social fallout from naming a boy with the name ‘Jayne’. It was fascinating how this usually female name translated into the content of all kinds of social interactions with the Mom and Dad.
For anyone who thinks gender doesn’t play a central and even defining role in the emerging identity of a beautiful baby needs to live a few days in the skins of these parents. It was a real eye-opener far beyond, say, implementing equality laws and thinking the job of gender neutrality done! We’ve hardly begun.
Some people create their own quicksand tildeb, then wonder why their life is a perpetual struggle just seeking to breathe.
The naming of a child is not without consequences. Need proof?
Try naming your son Satan or Lucifer, or your daughter Jezebel, then get back to me and tell me of the wonderful life he/she will live, and how many will consider you, the parent, as a pariah, for invoking such wicked context to them.
So you think this is a stretch eh? Yeah, you have hardly just begun………………
Bet you weren’t expecting that reply from ColorStorm! 😀
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Maybe not V, but is it lacking in any substance or fashion?
It certainly said something with words and was delivered with some kind of style – I can’t deny it!
Well, as usual he’s missed the meaning of it entirely – that gender continues to have a profoundly negative effect promoting inequality and misogyny through paternalistic ‘norms’; instead, he imports his religious quackery into it by suggesting gender inequality is somehow the parent’s fault for “invoking such wicked context” on children.
In this sense, no, I’m not surprised to get this kind of typical CS diversionary comment. The man’s brain is broken and he couldn’t think straight even if you paid him in Jesus-blessed alms.
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