demonic statements from Insanitybytes
How can anyone compare the Holiness of God with a black woman or anything else for that matter? That is pure blasphemy and anyone who is promoting the Shack is in my personal opinion blaspheming God. This woman is a weed planted by Satan to make believers stumble and those who don’t know God yet, make them go further from the truth. Ladies and gentlemen, this woman is very dangerous spiritually speaking and should be avoided like a plague.(Spaniard VIII)
Anyone who is in any doubt that Christianity is a religion created and perpetrated by supporters of domineering men, need only look to the controversy surrounding a new film, The Shack, to be convinced. In the film, the Christian god is presented as a woman – a black woman, no less – and it’s provoking curious levels of alarm from some quarters.
Throughout the history of Christianity, their god has been presented by adherents primarily as male: ignoring the fact that in Genesis ‘they’ (women and men) were allegedly made in the image of the god; ignoring the fact that the earliest Hebrew Old Testament texts consistently refer to the Holy Spirit aspect of the trinity god as female; and ignoring the fact that this supernatural being is supposed to be beyond mere human biological sex.
Christians barely blink an eye when their god, in any of its three forms, is represented by a white male. They might not think it’s necessarily ‘right’, in that most would acknowledge that their god is unlikely to look like a mere human, but it’s not offensive to these racist and misogynistic Christians.
So it’s interesting to note the spluttering rage when another Christian (Insanitybytes) writes a post suggesting that their god could show its love through a woman. They’re happy to accept their god showing love as a father, as a male god on Earth and as any form of male entity. They’re happy for their god to reveal his message through men, but their disgust at the thought of a black woman being used, reveals something really quite disturbing about the mindset.
The more I look into it, the more latent misogyny I see in certain aspects of religion. It’s a shame, because I personally know women reverends and several Christians who are among the loveliest people I have ever known – the Church where I got married is filled with people who took my wife and I into their community without hesitation, and with a great deal of warmth.
Then I read stuff like this, and I wonder how they can be representing the same faith.
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Yes, it’s true it’s not everywhere, but it’s an easy route for some Christians to take, and, ironically enough, it denies most of the teachings of Jesus.
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It’s a sad irony to be sure. I’m having a ‘discussion with a fundamentalist Christian right now, regarding abortion, and have had several discussions with him in the past, on creationism, same-sex rights, and faith healing. I don’t know why I keep trying – this guy takes the Bible as 100% literal fact.
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Oh, good luck with that! It requires a special kind of energy. 🙂
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A ‘lost my marbles’ energy. Which is fine, as I lost mine a looooooooong time ago.
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@Violet
Your bizarre misunderstanding of nature, scripture, and reality, all come up short once more. But your patrons will have a field day with your post here. Congratulations for your contribution to things in which you do not believe, with the results being a complete warping of good things that you have made distasteful.
I predict the following:
-Christians bad
-God evil
-Christians heartless
-Believers sexist
-Atheists intellectually superior
-God’s word ridiculous
-ib22 is living in the stone ages
There. No need to comment by the regulars.
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Ha, nice work on the conversation summary, it does sometimes go that way! But you’ll note this is a post essentially supporting Insanitybytes, and I was careful to state that ‘some’ Christians are attempting to perpetuate sexist interpretations.
I would be interested to know what exactly you think I misunderstand about nature and scripture from this post – so feel free to give further comment.
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I understand what you wrote V.
We all tend to form confederacies and end up with strange bedfellows, for what we once despised we now find common ground…….to support views that STILL ridicule God as well as believers.
Of course God is first and above all revealed through nature and scripture as masculine. ‘HE’ made the stars also.
But He also clues us in that AS a hen with her chicks………….explaining the nearness and dearness of His nature, leaving untouched that HE made the stars also.
Nature affirms this. But don’t confuse ‘different’ with ‘superior.’
God placed the baby in the mothers arms, not the fathers. Nothing sexist at all.
To a newborn, God is mom else she dies. Color is irrelevant. But mom is not God. And Dad is not God either.
God is God and has no equal.
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I personally enjoyed a lot of Insanity’s post. It pointed out a lot of the ‘shocking’ good stuff about the story of Jesus, with a saviour coming from the most humble and unlikely part of society. There’s a message in there for Christians today about not cherishing existing imbalances in society. Insanity didn’t for one minute say that your god was either a woman or a man, but she shared a personal experience where the attitude of one woman reminded her of the love she thinks your god shows. Is that demonic? Don’t think so.
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I’m glad that you enjoyed it. She has gift and skills we agree.
But two small errors here that are giant size that you mention. And this goes to the heart of my initial observation.
-The scriptures are not a ‘story’ as if there is any question of its accuracy or basis in fact.
-Ib22 said nothing of a ‘god’ who showed love, for as I’ve said before, all the ‘gods’ of the world collectively cannot count to three nor tie their shoes.
Small point? Uh, no. He is God, alone, not one ‘god’ of many.
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IB’s defenders (CS & CT) stated they have not read the book. What I find too much of a coincidence is that her experience with some black woman named “Louise” is eerily similar to that of the book and her name is an anagram of “Elousia” from The Shack, a.k.a. Papa (with the letter a removed). It might have been a mere fabrication just to make a point which makes it not okay. I understand this sounds like a serious accusation but it is definitely too much of a coincidence I find myself doubting the credibility of her story.
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@caeli
Not only a serious accusation, but a stupid one too. ‘Louise’ was written about on the lady ‘s blog who you are doubting, some time ago, looong before this conversation..
Words have consequences, and you have set yourself up for a great fall, but there is One who can put the pieces back together, in grace, and an apology may perhaps be in order………
(I only mention this because I was cited also)
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ColorStorm, I am glad you took it upon your hands to reply. I brought a possibility. My question to you is, how exactly do you know she didn’t fabricate “Louise” even then? After all, the book was released in 2008. I will make no apologies. Only I can say my comment has achieved exactly why it was made in the first place, to question the integrity of the person people find themselves defending. After all, if God is first in your life, no relationship should supersede the defense of His honor, revealed in His Holy Word being assaulted.
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“Only I can say my comment has achieved exactly why it was made in the first place, to question the integrity of the person people find themselves defending”
This is one of the reasons more people become disenchanted with Christianity. Fewer Christians living their faith, more Christians being judgemental about others.
The Shack is a Novel. It’s main themes are grace and forgiveness. If people can’t get behind these themes , it’s a sad day for them.
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The Shack appeals to the likes of you because you cannot distinguish the difference between what is truth and what is false which not to be condescending, makes you unqualified to weigh in in regards to spiritual matters. It’s easy to blame other people for our disillusionment when we make our very own decisions.
This novel attempts to assault God’s revelation, nullifying his atoning death for sins on the cross and reconciling mankind to Himself, the ONLY savior. Even the author cites in one of his interviews the book is highly theological. People can strip that part but if you hear it straight from the author, you’d believe it.
The reason why you don’t have a problem promoting it is because you are an apostate and this book helps make apostates which only substantiates the bible’s strong admonition in Galatians 1:9 and 2 Thessalonians 11.
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Extreme Christian Fundamentalism is just as scary as Extreme Islamic Fundamentalism . You’re both looking forward to the end of this world so that you can inherit your reward rather than living this current life to its fullest.
Yes, I do fear you because of your radical belief system.
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You can “fear” me and that is fine. There’s a huge difference between Islam which does not guarantee safety to anyone who dares to apostatize. You are free to apostatize in Christianity without losing your life over it. But the likelihood of you crucifying me is more than I would inflict physical harm on you. Aside from your excuse that other Christians have caused you to leave the faith, I wonder what truly was the hammer that sealed it. It’s not too late for anyone to go back to God after you have abandoned Him. After all, He truly is gracious He desires for all people to come to the knowledge of the truth. I should know. I broke ALL ten commandments before I found Christ and there’s no such person that is beyond redemption while they are still breathing.
Take Care kcchief1.
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“Aside from your excuse that other Christians have caused you to leave the faith, I wonder what truly was the hammer that sealed it.”
Too many scriptures to have to perform mental gymnastics to accept.
(Deut 22:22 ) “If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.”
(2nd Sam 12:13,14)And yet God broke his own law when he spared King David after having sex with Uriah’s wife Bathsheba but decided to kill their love child instead. “Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[a] the Lord, the son born to you will die.”
And then to show God’s sexually deviant side, he did this, 2nd Sam 12:11,12 , ““This is what the Lord says: ‘Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity on you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will sleep with your wives in broad daylight.”
This was the last men’s bible study I conducted in my home. I told everyone I could not serve a God this deviant and broke his own laws.
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You said -(Deut 22:22 ) “If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.”
That was a judicial law specifically for the children of Israel when they were under Theocracy.
“(2nd Sam 12:13,14)And yet God broke his own law when he spared King David after having sex with Uriah’s wife Bathsheba but decided to kill their love child instead. “Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[a] the Lord, the son born to you will die.”
God created all human beings which makes us subject to His authority because ALL life belongs to Him. He creates and therefore He has every authority to give and take life. Even though a child dies during infancy, there’s evidence in Scripture that an innocent child goes to be with the Lord since they are untainted with “deliberate” sin, a sin of willful rebellion. Even though a person dies, it is only their physical shell that dies, they continue to live either with the Lord or apart from Him regarding their response to revelation that was given to them.
“This was the last men’s bible study I conducted in my home. I told everyone I could not serve a God this deviant and broke his own laws.”
Based on your grievances, you misunderstand who God is because He is ALL good (1 John 1:5). You want God’s goodness without Him duly exercising His justice. The God you perceive makes Him an unjust God. It is common sense that people who do not know a person and have a genuine relationship with God in this case, will completely have a warped view of His nature. You have fashioned a God that will cater to humanity and to your own criteria.
John 6:37 states, “All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.”
John 4:24 states, “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
If you come to Him under this condition, He will reveal Himself to you.
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“Based on your grievances, you misunderstand who God is because He is ALL good (1 John 1:5).”
This is proof that you the Christian have to do mental gymnastics in order to make such a statement.
Even God admits he is the creator of all good and evil.
Isaiah 45:7
King James Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
International Standard Version
“I form light and create darkness, I make goodness and create disaster. I am the LORD, who does all these things.
American Standard Version
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
You have been indoctrinated to twist everything you can to make Christianity look good.
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Once again, you have proven your understanding of Scripture to be erroneous. You are using a translation with archaic English which gives you a different definition in modern English. The evil word in the original means “adversity.” It has nothing to do with evil we know to be personified in Satan. In essence, the verse is saying He brings peace and justice by way of calamity, exemplified in Pharaoh when he would not submit, God brought disaster, his judgment to Egypt for going against His will and making slaves out of the Hebrew nation.
Let’s put your logic to the test. You give your son a car as long as he follows your rules. He breaks your “house rules” and you take his car away. For your son, it’s disastrous as it stifles his lifestyle. Will you then be evil for bringing adversity to your son in this manner? I know this pales in comparison how God judges the nations but it is a simple illustration which shows the validity of the judgment applied. It wouldn’t make you evil in this case would it? It makes one just.
“You have been indoctrinated to twist everything you can to make Christianity look good.”
I can do no other but testify to the greatness of God’s mercy and kindness He has shown me, even at the cost of being ridiculed by the likes of you. You are certainly entitled to be wrong in interpreting Scripture and you have my assurance I have no desire to throw explosives at you. This is the difference between Christian Fundamentalism and Islamic Fundamentalism.
I leave you with Matthew 13:13-15, “For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’
I know where you stand and you know where I stand. My job is to present you with this and it is the Holy Spirit’s job to convict, if you let Him. This will be my last reply and thank you for giving me the insight as to why you have decided to abandon God.
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“My job is to present you with this and it is the Holy Spirit’s job to convict, if you let Him.”
No it’s not. Your job is to let your life be a light. I let my life be a light every day. There is not a day that goes by that I don’t help those less fortunate than me. I believe that is the calling of all people.
I assure you , I love you though you are misguided. I will pick you up when you are down. Though you will never admit it to me or anyone else here, you have doubts. It is difficult for you to have to defend all of these scriptures when you are troubled yourself by some of them.
I’m not saying there isn’t a God. I’m saying if there is one, it would be bigger than mere Christianity or any other religion. Religion is simply a way for people to control other people. You are allowing yourself to be controlled by other people and ancient writings from humans.
I have freedoms to do more good to my fellow man than you do because I’m not restricted by a religion. Think about that for a moment.
I wish you well !
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In regards to the End times, Christians are warned by Jesus that as He was hated, His followers would also be hated which we see it culminating in today’s society with people’s utter disdain for absolute truth. We are not causing chaos to “usher” and hasten the End times like Muslims are doing with their Mahdi.
The return of Christ promises there will no longer be pain and suffering in Revelation 21:4. Who would not want a world ruled in righteousness? If you are so bent up on living a life that is free from oppression, that will only be possible during the return of Christ. Your comparison on Christian Fundamentalism to Islamic Fundamentalism is egregious at best.
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I meant to say 2 Thessalonians 2:11
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No, no, no! Monochrome Drizzle has it wrong again!
That lion avatar really does not suit you, by the way. Have you thought of using a tapeworm instead?
You bad, God far above the rubbish that winds you up or your meaningless abuse, any Christian who objects to the film questionable, some Christians sexist, atheists thinking rationally (many of them), your vile, literalist interpretation of the Bible ridiculous, insanity wrong again, and in an even less interesting way than usual.
Please stop ridiculing God. If you feel there is no need to comment, you could have refrained.
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Well well, we have an accord. You are correct, the lion does not suit me.
But it does suit the LORD. He is above all, has no peer, is towering, majestic, stately even.
He is fearless, has a voice above a thousand waters, has a penetrating gaze that is ever Truthful.
He is to be feared in awe and power. And aah, there is that regal robe of purple and the ability to silence every mouth before His presence.
………..this will sail over your head, but others may hear that sweet drip…..drip….
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He said, ‘Go out and stand on the mountain before the Lord, for the Lord is about to pass by.’ Now there was a great wind, so strong that it was splitting mountains and breaking rocks in pieces before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; 12 and after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire a sound of sheer silence. 13 When Elijah heard it, he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood at the entrance of the cave. Then there came a voice to him that said, ‘What are you doing here, Elijah?’
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It’s a sign of how limited my brain function is these days that I had to ponder ‘Monochrome Drizzle’ for some time. I’m still giggling. Don’t tell the lion. 😉
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Let’s all go study the Bible at the LOVE SHACK!
“Bang, bang on the door baby!”
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Thanks SOM, loved that track back in the day. Any thoughts on whether the Christian god could show love through anyone who’s not a white man?
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Violet,
Atheists make issue of race, gender, not Christians.
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Ah okay, so what exactly was SpaniardVIII objecting to in Insanity’s post?
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Violet,
Why don’t you ask him?
Do Christians hold you responsible for Ark and Zande?
“Bang, bang, bang on the door, Baby!”
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Knock a little louder sugar! You just told me that Christians don’t make an issue of gender or race – SpaniardVIII is clearly in a pickle about one or both of these. Tin roof rusty.
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Voilet!
You go Grrrllll!
You go over there and straighten out that heathen with a little down home Christian atheism!
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I see someone already tried. Maybe the message would be better from you. Go fly your Christian feminist flag with pride SOM!
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Violet,
From Genesis 1:26:
27 “So God made man in his own image, made him in the image of God. Man and woman both, he created them.”
According to the Bible, the nature of God is male and female.
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I said that in my post. Did you read it at all? 🙂
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Violet,
I see your lips move but I don’t hear anything.
I was forced to learn that trick during my first marriage…
…which didn’t last very long.
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Oh dear, I’m not surprised at all.
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Violet,
I’m just messing with you.
Truth be told, what constitutes authentic Christian doctrine has been disputed even during the time of Saint Paul.
But subjecting God’s nature to feminist critique is totally ridiculous, pernicious in its intolerance and positively shameful in its provincial small-mindedness.
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Is that what Insanity was doing?
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Insanity is as Insanity does.
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I’m sorry to report that your grasp of anything Christian has not improved Violet.
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And I’m sure your argument on this front hasn’t progressed beyond questioning whether 1+1=2. 😀
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“And I’m sure your argument on this front hasn’t progressed beyond questioning whether 1+1=2. 😀”
See? Now this is what I’m talkin about. I never once questioned whether 1+1=2.
I asked YOU how and why?
I am hurt Violet. Have no fear though. We have first rate police psychologists who will almost certainly talk me down off this bridge. 😉
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The thing is, given that God is meant to be omnipotent and omnipresent, couldn’t God exist as a woman, and for that matter, a black woman, if God so chose?
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Apparently not, that’s why HE chose to be a father and a man and male holy sprite. Suggesting he would come in the form of a black woman seems to be like saying he might come in the form of a dung fly (which presumably he could too…)
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As a Christian, I hated The Shack for its non Christian/pseudo Christian theology. Too many Christians being led away from ‘the simplicity which is in christ’ and biblical theology of God.
Now, I have it on my shelf and feel the need to read it again with fresh eyes and an open heart
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I’d never heard of it before the post calling Insanity demonic, so my interest is piqued!
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Get ready for a ‘five people you meet in heaven’ kind of book.
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William Paul Young is everything that has spiritually castrated and crippled the church’s witness in the western world.
The false god, gospel and christ of “The Shack” have nothing to do with the historic Christianity of the ancient Christian scriptures.
The fact that a discussion like this can even take place is itself an indication of just how far western Christendom has fallen.
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“William Paul Young is everything that has spiritually castrated and crippled the church’s witness in the western world.”
What you really mean is that Young and people like him have crippled the Church’s grip on the Western World. They no longer fear the dogma and indoctrination of the Church.
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I would have agreed with you not too long ago. Have you read the shack for yourself?
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And I think the church itself has castrated it’s own witness. The Catholic churches new youth education program ‘no child’s behind left’
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I read the book, “The Shack” in 2007. I read it because many Christians were criticizing it and I wanted to know why. I wept through many parts of the book. It gave me additional insight on why I need to “forgive”. I have given away dozens of copies of this book.
My oldest daughter and I went to see the movie yesterday. Theological Correctness never entered our minds. The movie touched us like the book did. It’s a Novel about grace and forgiveness.
To look at this book / movie in ways other than its Author’s intention is an injustice. For “Christians” (of which I am no longer) I “get it” when your Bible says, “Jesus wept”
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Men bent on power get angry about all sorts of things when they see a threat on the horizon. I’m sure you’re right that they are reading way more into it than is necessary, but again, reveals something about the mindset, don’t you think?
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Every time a Christian calls IB names, an atheist gets her wings!
No wait, atheists don’t have wings. I seem to have gotten my genres all mixed up with that movie, “it’s a wonderful life.”
I have post scheduled for Monday that responds to some of this, Violet. In the meantime, I’m off to celebrate the goodness of God, to engage in some praise and worship. 🙂
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I thought your post was completely misrepresented, and I expect the book/film has been too. But the reaction is interesting (in a ‘not good’ way).
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Having read both Insanity’s and Spaniard’s posts now, it reminds me that however benighted a Christian may be, there are some more benighted. Insanity’s post was not too bad, for once. I can never forget her supporting the Ugandan gay sex law- she is well named- but this new one you’ve found is foolish and vile.
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I keep telling my blogging buddies that there’s more to Insanity than her occasionally harmful utterances. She goes on strange hobby horses and she doesn’t like backing down when she picks up the wrong end of the stick. But she’s a lot more insightful and theologically deeper than people like Tiribulus. You should give her a go, you might find some even enjoyable posts. I do remember one …
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Violet says: “I personally enjoyed a lot of Insanity’s post.”
When a God hating pagan enjoys your post, is not convicted and remains a God hating pagan, that is proof positive that you have not given said God hating pagan God’s truth.
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When someone who doesn’t believe your god exists find something of value in the words of a Christian, it means the words stand up to scrutiny independent of indoctrination. It means the words convey something meaningful about life and about the value of people. If you want to see ‘hateful pagans’ in the ‘souls’ of people who don’t share your faith, you clearly aren’t following the example of the character Jesus from your Bible. You could at least try to get that easy bit right before you head off on theological rants devoid of logic. 🙂
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You know nothing of the Jesus of the bible Violet. Nothing.
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Well, except the same words you’ve read.
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Please read THIS whole chapter violet. Only 16 verses.
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Please read THIS. Something that SpaniardVIII should meditate on too:
(Reported words of your god Jesus)
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I will throw in here that I won’t be joining anybody who’s goal is to pile up on InsanityBytes.
She is catastrophically wrong in key areas of biblical doctrine and practice , but she is not the ant-Christ or even the enemy.
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How big of you to make that judgement on behalf of Christians. I think most of them realise this. It’s the foaming-at-the-mouth ones that need to sit down and really think about what’s going on in their heads.
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@Tiribulus, let’s get the record straight, as a Christian myself I love my enemies, those who detract people froming the truth. I don’t hate insanitybyes22, what I hate is her false doctrine that is salvificly damning to those seeking truth in Jesus Christ. A person who loves truth will reject anyone referring to their doctrine the falsehood of what they stand for. A false teacher will introduce heresy mixed with some truth. To say that we accept some of their so called truth and not what’s false is mind blowing because if they are that corrupted in the basic understanding of the nature of God than everything else that they believe is tainted. For an example: if someone put’s a tiny drop of cyanide into a glass of water, making it 99% water and 1% poison, will one dare drink it? I think not. Tiribulus, I would like to encourage you to continue fighting for the truth which you faithfully did when I read your responses on her site. We need more bold Christians as yourself. God bless you my brother.
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Spaniard, and what of those who say the same of you? What of all the Christians who find your doctrine heretical and completely at odds with the example set by your god when you believe he visited this planet in human form?
The Bible is a rambling and contradictory text that is completely open to interpretation. The essence of your god is supposed to be a personal revelation, and the only concrete example for living your life available to you is that depicted in the story of Jesus. You really should follow that humble and loving example, and remove the great big plank from your own eye. 🙂
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Spaniardviii, drop me an email please.
tiribulus@yahoo.com
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@Tiribulus I sent you an email
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Yes, best chat in private. Because nothing you say in public stands up to scrutiny. 😀
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Whatever you say violetwisp.
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Well, it’s a typical strategy of someone only looking for confirmation of their own narrow-minded views. You can chat together in peace about how you are the best Christians and everyone else is wrong – and you won’t have anyone pointing out the huge flaws in your thinking.
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Violets says: “Yes, best chat in private. Because nothing you say in public stands up to scrutiny. 😀”
Yeah, because I have a long established record of not saying anything here right?
I have 227 COMMENTS in your “file” on my “blog” since October 31st 2014 when YOU invited me over here to be made sport of. And those are just the ones I kept. Many of em REALLY long.
You’ll have to take my word for it (or not). My reasons for wanting to talk to this fella, who I just met, have nothing even accidentally in common with your baseless accusations.
So stop bein such a ninny will ya? 😀
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Excellent Tiribulus, haters of God will always make sport of the truth because they love darkness rather than the light. God’s Word exposes their lifestyle of sin and they hate that so what do they do attack the God of the Bible which by the way says a lot when they support the Shack. They support the Shack because the god of the Shack is not the God of holy scripture.
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If you want to discuss the Bible I would be happy to do so. Let me know what’s your question.
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I have one for you. Is Genesis chapter one literally true, and does that mean that the World was created less than ten thousand years ago?
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Yes, Genesis Chapter 1 is literal. The universe was created in six days. No one knows of many thousands of years the world is. We don’t know how long Adam was in the Garden of Eden before the fall but for sure it wasn’t millions of year.
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“The universe was created in six days. No one knows of many thousands of years the world is”
I think you left out some “Zeros” in your dating. Even mainstream ministers and theologians believe the universe is billions of years old.
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Thank you. Should each woman be trusted to make the decision whether she need an abortion or not?
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Everyone has a free will to decide and God gives everyone that right. God will never force you and follow Him or make the right decisions. Saying that He will try to convict you and show you that what you are doing goes against His will and is wrong but not through force. At the end, you have to decide but remember every decision must be given an account when we are in His presence after death.
Thanks for your questions, they are very good ones.
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Thank you for your answers. What laws should be made about abortion, do you think?
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Every life matters to God and the reason you are here asking me questions is the fact that your mother didn’t abort you so it is safe to say that abortion shouldn’t be legal and is wrong. My decision is based on scripture as all Christians are. Murder is murder if it’s a in the womb or out the baby is alive. We can argue if he/she is alive but I say that after two weeks the heart starts beating.
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Thank you. What about Jonah? Is the prophet emerging from the sea creature and preaching to Nineveh a historical account?
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If God can’t make a huge fish swallow a man and spit him back out then God is not all-powerful right? All of the scriptures is taken literally unless the context tells you otherwise.
The question is does one believe in God’s Word or not, one can’t pick and choose. That statement was Christians only.
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“Not all-powerful” is not what I was driving at, but the way Jonah appears to me to be a parable, a clever story to show the weaknesses of religious people at the time of writing. As does Job- is that book literal history, do you think, and if so did Bildad actually say those words quoted, in that order, or is he a person made up to symbolise a particular attitude to fate?
Where do you think the context tells you the Bible should not be taken literally? Jesus said he spoke in parables, so the good Samaritan and the unjust steward are not precise historical figures- where else? Could one of the Revelation Beasts symbolise the Roman Empire, and one of the heads or horns of those beasts be an Emperor or governor?
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Dear Spaniardviii, I wish you would listen to this radio programme:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08hpmmf
It’s on the Paleocene/Eocene thermal maximum, a spike in global temperature 55m years ago caused by the release of gigatonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere. You would hear a snapshot of quite how detailed the evidence is of the changes in Earth over millions of years, and if you were open minded you would be liberated from your literalist creationism to see that God’s good creation is so much more wonderful than the way in which a literalist creationist is condemned to conceptualise it. For Genesis 1-10 are not literal accounts of history, but Jewish reworkings of Babylonian myths, changed because the Jews had a better understanding of God than the Babylonians did.
It might also show to you the theat posed by anthropogenic climate change, and how we may repeat the mass extinction of the PETM.
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You didn’t reply to this comment:
Spaniard, and what of those who say the same of you? What of all the Christians who find your doctrine heretical and completely at odds with the example set by your god when you believe he visited this planet in human form?
The Bible is a rambling and contradictory text that is completely open to interpretation. The essence of your god is supposed to be a personal revelation, and the only concrete example for living your life available to you is that depicted in the story of Jesus. You really should follow that humble and loving example, and remove the great big plank from your own eye. 🙂
We could discuss the words of Jesus if you like. That quote above, and that one about loving everyone. Not posting inflammatory pieces of pure hatred because you disagree with someone’s opinion, for example, might be a good start. Don’t you think it would be more Christian to discuss with Insanity on her post why you find her opinions wayward? Perhaps you’ll find you didn’t read her post correctly. Or perhaps you’ll have the dawning realisation that the only thing that bothered you was that your god could be a black woman – and that reveals more about your attitude towards that subsection of society than anything about an omniscient superbeing who could appear in any form of its choosing – from bushes to men to … eeek, black women!
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I didn’t reply because it was a terrible exegesis and it would have taken me way too long to not only reply but to correct every single misinterpretation of the verses that he mentioned. I will tackle just one of them.
Matthew 7:1-6
7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Now the person was referring to this passage, okay. Let’s take a good look at it in context. This passage is not saying not to judge a person but to make sure that you are not doing the same sin like them or living in a sinful lifestyle. Why do I say that? Good question, It tells you very clearly that if you are not in a position because of a plank in your own eye or sinning even worse than the person then you don’t have a right to judge them, let me stop here. The words plank and sawdust is in reference to a life of sin and disobedience. Sin can be all kinds but normally is a willful living in it without any repentance or remorse over it, thus a continuation of it. When a Christian is living in that manner and hasn’t repented he or she has no right to tell another believer to stop their sinful lifestyle because he is in the same boat as the person he/she is trying to rebuke.
In the case of insanitybyes22, she is teaching and spreading false doctrine which I am not doing and I’m not living a life of drugs, fornication, I don’t curse and anything else. I’m not saying that I’m perfect for no one is but if I do say something bad or think something bad or whatever the case may be, I make sure every day to pray to the Lord and ask for forgiveness.
I have the right to tell any Christian whom I care for and love that they are deviating from God’s Word. It has happened to me where a brother in Christ called me up one evening and said that he didn’t agree in an area of my life that I was living. I really took it to heart and I couldn’t deny that he was right. I took his rebuke as if it was from the Lord and guess what, I repented and stopped doing it.
Matthew 18:15-16
“If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’
You guys only like to get the verses that seem like it fits you but you not only get them out of context but twist and turn them in all different direction.
All I did was let the passage speaks for itself with using scripture to interpret itself. You cannot make a passage say what you want but let the passage tell you what it’s saying. There’s plenty of verses that says to defend the truth, encourage those who are following the truth and rebuke those who are deviating from it. If your friend and doing something that can harm him, wouldn’t you warn him/her and try to change their minds. You are not telling them because you hate them but because you care enough and are not a person of political correctness like everyone else to tell them the truth.
You see I knew that it would be too long image answering every point or verse from the person, I would like writing three posts…lol
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Are you familiar with the self-righteousness of the Pharisees? Did you go and talk to Insanity and discuss your concerns about her theology? No, you wrote post calling her demonic, satanic and urging others to shun her. I have no idea why you are pasting bits of Scripture that show you to be horribly wrong in your actions (even by the standards of the Bible). Your ‘problem’ is with the film/book, not with someone else who sees something of value in it.
But, to come back to an earlier question, if your god can appear as a burning bush, or an angel, or a man, why would your god be so offended at the thought of appearing as a black woman?
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I really do have to finish this thing.
http://tiribulus.com/judge.html
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I wouldn’t bother. No-one is likely to read it either way. 🙂
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It really also struck me how easily Spaniard disavows a fellow believer who does not believe as he does. Why, if we just sit back and watch, soon they’ll eliminate half of their own players from their own team because they aren’t doctrinally pure. I already know I’m an eliminated player because I’m “way out there.”
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It is shocking. And the aggressive way Spaniard lays into her, encouraging other bloggers to join his hate train. Another lesson from Jesus not well learned.
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“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.” – Jesus
I find that the increasing prevalence of patriarchy and gender roles in churches means that something isn’t taught as much as it used to be – I thought it was things like the fruit / gifts of the Holy Spirit; but it also seems to be essential teachings of Jesus like the Sermon on the Mount as well.
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Lol…Jamie, you are good at twisting not only scripture but my words. Now, Triritulus is a true Christian and a brother in Christ who I encouraged but I guess you gladly avoided that part. I just wanted Tiribulus to know that my goal wasn’t to attack the character of insanitybytes but her false doctrine that is very damning. Thanks for your caricature Jamie.
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When you say that someone is a wolf who is claiming to be a Christian, you’re borrowing from Matthew 7:15 (“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.”) or Acts 20:29 (” I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.”) By saying “claiming” you’re suggesting that what a person says about himself or herself may not be genuinely true. Just as I can claim to be a Seahawks fan; just because I say I’m one it doesn’t mean that I am (it also doesn’t mean that I’m not) – this is the same logic Christians use of each other all of the time. “This woman is a weed planted by Satan” that’s pretty strong language suggesting the parable of the weeds in Matthew 13. I don’t know how you can say that someone is “a weed” and “planted by Satan” and stand by her status as a true Christian and believer in Christ at the same time. You charge her with blasphemy – which is, if I’m not mistaken, the unforgivable sin. You also charge that she has rejected the power of God’s word. All combined, that is a lot of strong Biblical imagery that shows me that either you don’t know your Bible enough to know to what degree you insulted her; or you intended to use just about every single one of the strongest metaphors you could to defame her stance as a believer. If that’s what you do to those who are on your own team; how little you must think of your team’s enemies. When was the last time you read this:
““If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.”?
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Aspiring tempests, always looking for teapots.
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Well, indeed. Who wins the argument does not matter. But, that people care so much is fascinating, is it not?
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I don’t find it that interesting.
But then I have my pet peeves that other people find weird or inconsequential, so maybe I shouldn’t point fingers.
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I find it interesting. Your god can appear as a burning bush, an angel or a man, but if anyone doesn’t condemn the idea that your god could appear as a BLACK WOMAN, they are a ‘weed planted by Satan’. It’s quite strong language. I suspect it doesn’t appeal to you because it’s a level of absurdity you’d rather not witness among fellow believers. 🙂
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If I were a black woman I’d be annoyed that someone thought I was mannish enough to represent the Father.
I just can’t think like an evangelical. Not my circus, not my monkeys.
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There was this big contraversy in Finland because a black man played marshall Mannerheim in an African film about him. Most people who got really upset had not even seen the film. The sheer idea that someone of a drastically different skin tone could play the hero of Finnish right wing nationalists was too much for quite a bunch of people. Nobody made any noise when he was presented talking in Finnish in a nother film.
Marshall Mannerheim was born into Swedish speaking Finnish family in the 19th century, he made most of his military career in the Imperial Russian army, was a member of the court of the Russian tsar as one of the chevalier guards for the empress. That court spoke mainly in French. He never really learned to speak Finnish and you can hear it from his accent in the radio speeches he gave. Infact, during the wartime (in wich period the film where he supposedly talks in Finnish is set) he had given a specific order that his generals were not allowed to speak in Finnish when he was present, because he could not follow what they were talking. In the scene of the film where he speaks Finnish he is discussing military issues with his closest general Airo, who had been educated in the French military academy. Most likely they would have talked in French, or Swedish, but certainly not in Finnish.
The nationalists are a type of religious people, in that they have a very clear cut idea of their idols, but it is an internal subjective notion, rather than anything based on any facts. I can only imagine what the outrage would have been, if the black person playing Mannerheim would also have been a woman…
The subjective world view in wich so many conservatively inclined people just know the truth, either because it is something they think has always been, and/or because they have built their self image and identity on it being so, do not even want to know the facts. Or alternatively if they are faced with facts, they rather invent facts of their own, to support their presuppositionalist position. Look at Donald Trump and his supporters.
Certainly if one reads the entire Bible trough, one can not simply brush aside the fact that the god described in the Old Testament is a rather crappy person. Christians seem to be divided between those who would not adhere to such vile god, and are forced to make up excuses for the obvious tribal moralism and fascism this Old Testament god God does, and to those who fall in line with tribal moralism and fascism. Though by far most are people who have never even given a thought for the entire issue, but out of cultural habit simply belong to this organization.
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rautakyy your last paragraph is very insightful. Unfortunately you would find hardly any Christians who would agree with your conclusion despite them doing what you say. Self delusion is part of the process. .
In broad terms, conservative Christians defend the crappy god warts and all, whilst liberal Christians reinvent god in their ideal image.
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It’s interesting how an idol can appear in many forms, but that there are some suggestions that are so devastating to certain groups of people. It really does reveal deep levels of prejudice.
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Indeed, one really funny thing about Christianity and connected popular imagery is how Jesus and the Biblican prophets and heroes have been played by Nordic types, with blond hair and blue eyes – that is, people like me. Instead of Mediterranean dark haired and brown eyed actors. Why? Because god is a blond Nordic male as is his offspring and all his representatives, even when they are born into Near-Eastern families? I bet Charlton Heston as Moses dressed in Mesopotamian fashion (though he supposedly was culturally Egyptian) has not been nearly as disturbing to the same people who find a black woman as god somehow offensive. How dare they presume what their god, that chooses to hide from human eye (or more likely does not exist), looks like, if that god ever decides to appear to anyone?
It is almost as stupid as how the Angels have had a sex change from male to female in imagery and subsequently in the minds of Christians during the 19th century romantic period. Why?
My favourite god in popular culture has been for some time Marianne Faithfull in the Absolutely Fabulous.
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I had posted over at Ark’s site a quote from a Biblical Scholar on misogyny in the Bible:
This comment was made having regard to a particular Christian lady with who Ark had been having a ‘discussion’.
Ark’s response to me was enlightening:
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Oh dear, I’m sure she’s wasted in her submissive role. Or maybe she’s chosen the manipulative ‘submissive’ that Insanity favours.
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I am blown away that Insanity is now considered Not A True Christian, a Blasphemer in fact.
I must be honest this made me smile from ear to ear.
So here, just for IB … ( we can imagine Insanitybytes as the poor bloke in the loin cloth and Spaniard as John Cleese) After all, if Yahweh can be a Black woman, IB can be a smelly little Jew in a loin cloth!
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Yes Ark, usually the Christians only rip each other to shreds when the atheists are absent from the discussion. To do so on an atheist blog is unusual. But we have a couple of contributors to this discussion whom seem to feel they are protecting the ‘pure’ doctrine,just sit back and the self righteousness of these folk. Soon you will be pining for ColorStorm again.
PS watching this you probably think back to your Cathar case study.
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“usually the Christians only rip each other to shreds when the atheists are absent from the discussion. To do so on an atheist blog is unusual.”
The original post is on Spaniards blog and it’s worth a full read – really gearing up for a stoning! The rhetoric seems to be a bit toned down over here.
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I really need to watch that whole film! I hope Spaniard has time to watch the clip and reflect on their behaviour.
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Pingback: what is a god hater? | violetwisp
I left a comment over at spiritualminefield . I always get a chuckle when I visit a Christian Blog and without exception , they all feel an overwhelming urgency to “Moderate Comments”.
What on earth are they afraid of ? The Truth ???? 🙂
Reminds me when I was in Egypt. I noticed many of the reliefs depicting gods and goddesses had their faces chiseled away. I asked the tour guide who did this. It occurred during early visits from Christians. They were intent on removing any remnants of Egyptian Religions.
I always felt if your religion is so much better than others, why not let it stand on its own ?
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Well, Spaniard and Tiribulus felt the need for a private chat, which makes me think they are afraid of open dialogue. I’m interested to find out if Spaniard attempted a friendly chat with Insanity before condemning her to Satan’s furnace of fire.
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Violet, when you mentioned this site earlier (https://spiritualminefield.wordpress.com/2017/03/10/insanity-does-bite/) , I went over to have a look. I also left a comment which was held for moderation , then deleted.
I find it very hypocritical that Spaniard feels he can post comments here on topics he disagrees with but if someone goes to his site and posts a civil comment he disagrees with, he deletes it.
It’s obvious by the statements he’s made here that he shouldn’t be taken seriously. He’s just another poster boy for why people leave the Christian Religion.
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This is beyond ridiculous . Spaniard just gave me the reason he deleted my comment from his site. How thin skinned can you get. And hypocritical I might add as he called Citizen Tom a liar.
Spaniard, ““I’m sorry but you weren’t respectful, this is what you said: “Self righteous Christians like some of the ones commenting on this blog are the reason I am no longer a Christian.”
“If you come to my blog to insult Christians and comments like that I have the right to delete it.”
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That’s quite entertaining! I love how your quote about self righteous Christians now appears twice in the discussion – double the exposure. He’s not very bright, as well as revealing himself to be particularly unpleasant, probably not worth pursuing discussion with him.
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Actually, I’ve had an extended chat with him and while we don’t agree on anything, I think we might be able to continue our discussion without the fear of my comments being deleted. 🙂
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