lacking love
Once one understands God’s holiness and man’s sin, the question is not about why God damns people. The question is why He saves anybody at all. (Tiribulus)
It’s difficult for Christians to justify the ‘goodness’ of their god: they believe he has knowingly created billions of human beings only for them to spend most of eternity being tortured.
Some Christians justify this cold, hard fact of their religious belief with interesting interpretations of ‘free will’ (we can all choose), ‘torture’ (more like being denied the love of their god) or ‘grace’ (their god knows everyone and shows mercy). Some Christians choose to avoid facing the idea altogether, preferring to play a supernatural trump card: their god is magic and does not need to make sense.
But other Christians, like Tiribulus above, are happy to embrace this immensely cruel and immoral aspect of the depiction of their god, and with it think the very worst of their fellow humans beings.
The interpretation of Christianity that teaches all babies, children and adults are despicable creatures who deserve eternal torment is an interesting thing to behold. Any thoughts on why it so attractive to so many people? My money is on childhoods lacking in love.
The list of problems that stem from neglect reads like the index of the DSM: poor impulse control, social withdrawal, problems with coping and regulating emotions, low self-esteem, pathological behaviors such as tics, tantrums, stealing and self-punishment, poor intellectual functioning and low academic achievement. (apa.org)
But perhaps if people can trace the true roots of their negative psychological and/or anti-social impulses, it will help them contextualise why they find comfort in such strange beliefs. And perhaps they can work on other ways of finding peace within themselves that don’t involve embracing a religion that judges and condemns other people, and continues to marginalise women within society.
I’m busy Violet. 🙂
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This would fit with most, if not all, born agains, or those who upgrade from the more passive flavours of faith (ie. Catholics) to the evangelical (fundamentalist) strains.
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The self-loathing, and loathing of others, is a bit of a worry.
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Clubs are easier to maintain when you have someone, or something to hate.
Now pop over to my blog.
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Cool! I’m just about to give up for the night but that’s something to look forward to reading. Long time since your last post. I’ll take your first book on holiday with me next week and see if I can wade through the words. 🙂
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Just read the second. Easier on the eye
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http://catholictruthblog.com/
Eejits, I tell you. Not passive at all.
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Well, not all, but most.
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Reads like pure Augustine thinking! Well at least Tiribulus is channeling one of the ‘great’ christian thinkers and not the more recent prosperity gospel charlatans.
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If Christians think this way, what about atheists? Mr Trump, with his huge investment in weapons, his cutting of diplomatic activity and other means of soft power, his picking fights with his most loyal ally Australia, the EU and NATO- does he believe that he and his family will be saved, and not care about anyone else? I remember the HG Wells quote George Orwell shared: “Well, the world is not a charitable institution, and I take it they will have to go”.
I am not judging all atheists, but some might think that way. It might explain certain trends in current politics.
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There are a lot of atheists lacking love too. Who knows, maybe the Christian faith is a better than nothing.
I’m not sure I get what you mean about Trump though – is he an atheist? He’s a narcissist so it’s difficult to have any normal expectations of his behaviour.
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It seems to me that he says what he thinks will get conservative Evangelical votes, mostly about being pro-life. They in turn tell each other that abortion law is the thing that matters more than anything else. If he is Christian, it does not seem to affect his way of living.
Christians are supposed to respect a Lord who says Love one another; and “Love your enemy, do good to those who hate you”.
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Yes, that is a weird one. Maybe it’s the US cultural influence overriding the Christian influence. There’s enough to pick and choose from in the Bible to support whatever is in fashion.
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“But other Christians, like Tiribulus above, are happy to embrace this immensely cruel and immoral aspect of the depiction of their god, and with it think the very worst of their fellow humans beings.”
LOL! Somewhat funny how you have found in Tiribulus a gift that goes on giving, just the precise kind of person you need in order to confirm your own biases about faith. He’ll do an amazing job, I’m sure.
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I think we can all recognise that he’s mentally unwell.
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Why? You and he seem share the same malevolent Creator theory. I thought for sure you’d be fast friends by now.
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To true, the only difference being…
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y336/johnzande/pll_zpsoofopgwm.jpg?t=1489703900
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The problem with satire is that it is always based on truth, so the Poe you have created in your own imagination is based on your real life experiences with Christians.
The Malevolent Creator you have invented is a caricature of all those people you have encountered. That breaks my heart, Zande.
You know how I know God is merciful and full of grace? Because if it were left up to me I’d be annihilating each one of those people and holding public executions of those who abuse children and rob them of their faith.
We are most fortunate I am not God because my patience is not nearly as steadfast as His, nor my mercy. I would show up as a wrathful, vengeful malevolent creator indeed, and leave a wake of destruction in my path.
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I like the way you can comment so confidently on the contents of a book (two, now) which you have absolutely no idea whatsoever as to what it contains.
That makes you either astonishingly stupid, or astronomically arrogant.
Which do you prefer, Inanity?
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@mr zande
You said:
—I like the way you can comment so confidently on the contents of a book (two, now) which you have absolutely no idea whatsoever as to what it contains.—
Yet it is precisely THIS ‘no idea whatsoever…………….. ‘ that YOU hold dear, as to your understanding of scripture, which makes you supremely UNQUALIFIED to speak of the Creator, scripture, and people of faith.
That said, one need not read your book to know, as your blog is enough proof that you view God as evil…….
So here we have the ultimate hypocrite, and that would be you.
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Cranky, Zande? Not enough fiber in your frosty flakes this morning?
I speak the truth. The truth can be both astonishing and astronomically arrogant. Sorry, that’s just the nature of the truth. It is what it is. A Poe does not spring forth from nothingness, it is created. Just as you were.
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” Because if it were left up to me I’d be annihilating each one of those people and holding public executions of those who abuse children and rob them of their faith.
We are most fortunate I am not God because my patience is not nearly as steadfast as His, nor my mercy. I would show up as a wrathful, vengeful malevolent creator indeed, and leave a wake of destruction in my path.”
Insanity, this is worthy of a post of its own, if I had time. Why are you comparing your personal reaction as a fellow human being to that of a creator? We know that people behave differently according to their genetics and their environmental experiences. As a fellow human being of all these people against whom you are displaying rage here, you could do little to alter either their genetics or their life experiences. As a creator, you could do everything to help people avoid the interactions that lead to horrendous behaviour, even without altering their make-up.
The only comparison starting to be valid would be your role as a parent. And presumably as a parent, if one of your offspring did something atrocious, you would start to question what you did wrong, what you could have changed to help them avoid that path. To suggest that ‘loving’ creator is gloriously merciful for showing the simple concern of a parent, is rather odd.
But finally, I am disappointed that your attitude towards people who commit horrendous actions involves wanting to kill them. I thought as a species, now that we understand what leads us to commit crimes, those of us who understand enough about psychology and who can control our own impulses, could start to take a slightly more pragmatic and balanced approach to the ‘monsters’ that are created by our societies.
First step is to acknowledge that the vast majority of people who behave atrociously towards other people have had truly atrocious things happen to them, and working out how to break these vicious cycles is a much more useful direction for the energy produced from our emotional responses than murder could ever be. If only the people writing the Bible had had the insight to include that piece of logic somewhere in the rambling text, we might have a more useful brand of Christianity to choose from.
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My thoughts exactly …. please write one. There would be too many ‘F’ words if I tried.
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I don’t know where to start,Violet.
First off,
“We know that people behave differently according to their genetics and their environmental experiences.”
That’s actually the kind of faulty thinking that creates racism in our world and eventually leads to eugenics. People are not their genes or their genetics or their circumstances.
“And presumably as a parent, if one of your offspring did something atrocious, you would start to question what you did wrong, what you could have changed to help them avoid that path..”
Parents have a huge influence, but kids still have freewill. Are you going to now blame parents for every disability,every mental illness, every bad choice? Do you perceive your kids as computers you get to program? Indoctrinate? Control?
“First step is to acknowledge that the vast majority of people who behave atrociously towards other people have had truly atrocious things happen to them…”
Most of us have had something truly atrocious happen to us. That is life.Most of us are trauma survivors of some kind of another. But a whole lot of us chose to do good anyway.
You have woven a narrative completely devoid of personal choice, of freewill. In your world there can be no evil,people are simply powerless victims of genetics, environment, experiences,and bad parenting. We are all mindless automatrons, having no will of our own, simply hapless victims of circumstance.
I realize you cannot see it, but your thinking actually robs people of their humanity and disempowers us all.
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So if you see an obstacle in the path of a blind person you wouldn’t remove it? Would you leave it to their ‘personal choice’ of path to fall? That’s the kind of strategy you’re advocating here – taking all our acquired knowledge about human behaviour, ignoring it and leaving people to suffer. You rob people of their humanity, disempower them, when you refuse to acknowledge that we can help them make decisions that reduce suffering for everyone, including themselves.
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Why do you presume blind people are unable to navigate in life? Do you follow them down the street removing every obstacle in their path? Do you treat them like incompetent children?
Or do you teach them that they are strong and able? Do you give them the tools they need to overcome on their own? Do you have enough respect for their dignity as human beings to grant them some personal choice over their own lives or is it all about YOU and your alleged acquired knowledge that presumes it knows what’s best for them?
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“Do you have enough respect for their dignity as human beings to grant them some personal choice over their own lives or is it all about YOU and your alleged acquired knowledge that presumes it knows what’s best for them?”
I have enough respect for the dignity of human beings to grant them access to the vast amounts of knowledge we have now acquired as a species. This is knowledge that helps us understand ourselves and our fears, our shortcomings and our basic impulses. It is due to this knowledge that you might advise your children not to indulge in unprotected sex if they don’t want to expose themselves to STDs or unwanted pregnancies, you might advise your children to treat others with respect and kindness because then they are more likely to receive such treatment. I’m not sure why you think I’m ‘alleging’ this knowledge. Do you think people one thousand years ago were right to burn redheads as witches? Do you think it was useful for society to kill homosexuals? Our knowledge of what is actually harmful to society has changed immensely with this knowledge I refer to, and it’s reflected in the laws of societies.
Now, you seem to suggest that you want to give people tools. If you don’t want to give them knowledge about how and why they have impulses to behave in certain ways, and how they can overcome certain harmful impulses, then what tools are you referring to?
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Here’s an interesting article I’ve just found about work on breaking cycles of abuse:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/17/breaking-the-cycle-of-abuse
If we ignore what we know about what leads to abuse, we are surely as bad as the abuser you want to murder.
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Thanks, Violet. As usual I always appreciate the way you completely dismiss me as ignorant and uniformed about All Things.
I spent a couple decades working as a sexual assault/domestic violence advocate. There’s a slight possibility I may actually have some wisdom and experience of my own.
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In that case, feel free to demonstrate your wisdom and reference how your observations are backed up elsewhere.
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But theologically correct in what he says!
Although I no longer call myself a Christian, I strenuously am of of the view the Tiribulus is correctly representing the Christian faith as understood by theologians for the last 2,000 years. Those other Christians who criticize him must decide whether they disagree with his message, in which case they may be broaching heresy or his presentation which is a different manner.
I applaud Titibulus because he shows just how shocking the Christian message is when properly understood. And I mean shocking in a bad way.
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He thinks his theology is sound. You’re right though, he’s not the average. I hope I didn’t suggest he is in the post.
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His theology is sound. The problem being it is devoid of love and as the bible tells us, “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.”
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So, are you Insanitybytes22 infact, “as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal”? After all, it was you who abowe made the comment, that: “I would show up as a wrathful, vengeful malevolent creator indeed, and leave a wake of destruction in my path.” I would not, nor would John, or Violetvisp, would they? Where does all this anger in you come from? Do you not see, that it is always better to repair, than to wreak havoc, if you can. Or are you suggesting that your there is something your god is simply unable to do, like repair humans instead of destroying or punishing them?
You also commented, that: “Because if it were left up to me I’d be annihilating each one of those people and holding public executions of those who abuse children and rob them of their faith.” Public executions? Really? Where is your “charity”? Are you talking about Roman Catholic priests, or child abusers in a more general terms? Are you talking about missionaries, who “rob children of their faith” when they turn kids from one sect of Christianity to a nother, or when they turn children to Christianity from their faith in Allah, Buddha, or some other god?
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@raut
The good lady should not even have to defend your nonsense. The pure sarcasm escapes you, and this is why you view God as you do.
God IS patient. And His people ARE gentle, kind, merciful, slow to anger. Geez, what do you want a personal invitation? Oops, you have it already in the gospels….. 😉
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“God is patient.” ~ColorStorm
Sure. Except for all those times he reportedly wasn’t. (Lot’s wife, Er, Onan, Nadab and Abihu, the 10 scouts, the people who murmured/complained in the desert, Uzzah, the 42 youths, and all the countless other unnamed victims who experienced Lord G’s instant wrath)
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ColorStorm, are you saying, that Christians are gentle, kind, mercifull, slow to anger? How is that measured? In historical context, Christians have been anything but. That is the sole reason why Christianity is the most wide spread religion in the world. As a result of colonialism, readiness to war, persecution against other religions and general willingness to use violence to achieve goals.
Yes, the world is full of such personal invitations like the Gospels, Qur’an, Book of the Mormon and other pyramid schemes. The only practical result of joining, seems to be the loss of autonomy in favour of some major or minor demagogue, who claims to know what a god, that does not ever present itself anywhere, wants from you. Mostly it is money for the upkeep of the demagogue, mullah, clergy, priest, shaman, or other form of ritual expert. Sometimes it is a sacrifice of the safety of body and sanity in defence, that is in defeating the representatives of other such pyramid schemes.
How does one go about to define, wich invitation is correct, if any? By being lucky enough to be born into the right one, like you, perhaps?
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Please Rautakyy-
Point to ONE scripture text where Christians are commanded to execute punishment TODAY for ANYTHING.
Where did Paul the apostle, Peter, James, John, or Christ Himself teach retribution?
So perhaps they who you had in mind (such as Hitler) as disciples of Christ were simply running unsent.
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ColorStorm, it was only last week you were telling me that children need to be punished with violence, as stated in the OT. Now you want to live your life only by the NT teachers? I’m confused.
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@V.
—-ColorStorm, it was only last week you were telling me that children need to be punished with violence—
What in God’s good earth does the stupidity of a cliff jumper have to do with chastisement?
Once more you project V.
It is you who sees the loving hand of chastisement by a father as VIOLENT. It is you who sees the weeding of a garden as unnecessary lest the crabgrass complain.
I swear you cannot follow a common sense line of reasoning.
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“I swear you cannot follow a common sense line of reasoning.”
She can when it’s used — problem is, you don’t.
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It can be difficult following more than one conversation at a time – you should check what I’m replying to – in this case your comment to Raut.
“Point to ONE scripture text where Christians are commanded to execute punishment TODAY for ANYTHING.
Where did Paul the apostle, Peter, James, John, or Christ Himself teach retribution?
So perhaps they who you had in mind (such as Hitler) as disciples of Christ were simply running unsent.”
I pointed out ONE place you want to use violent punishment.
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Yes. difficult.
And I told you, Chastisement according to Webster, and the entire warp and woof of history, parenting, common sense, and scripture, is NOT Violent.
Unless of course you think that the necessary pain of childbirth is VIOLENT, and should be outlawed……
Oh how the clouds of life are soon replaced by the songbird and sunshine.
Narrowmindedness is a killer to reason.
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It’s physical punishment using pain, is it not? It maybe regarded as ‘common sense’ in times gone by, but the scientific consensus among every group of relevant professionals (and most parents) in 2017 is that it is counter-productive violence. You cling to last vestiges of your understanding that it is ‘common sense’ based on …. wispy nothing and some words in a book that is several thousand years old.
The necessary pain of childbirth isn’t ‘necessary’ for the millions of women lucky enough to avoid it, even in natural birth. But for the rest of us, it is a violence that should be outlawed – the only problem being we haven’t worked out a better way of getting the babies out yet. Rest assured we shall.
I agree that narrow-mindedness is a killer of reason. Interesting you can see that, but not much else. 🙂
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Hey violet.
Ever heard of King Solomon? His wisdom regarding economics, agriculture, botany, astronomy, zoology, government, law, and oh lest I forget, child rearing, are second to none. A man above men was he, with the full blessing of the Creator.
Even the stellar Queen of Sheba was blown away in his presence.
Don’t be so quick to dismiss things in which you are clueless. 😉
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No thanks, I’ll trust the consensus of millions of highly trained professionals working directly with children in 2017 over a handful of words passed down from thousands of years ago attributed to an allegedly wise king.
Nice to know you admire the words of a polygamous pagan-lover though – I’m sure such a person would be a great parent! 🙂
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Too bad V you filter everything through the eyes of suspicion.
Solomon asked God for a discerning heart………….
Hmmmm, seems like a good idea there. Discernment. Not everyone has it, so few want it, and even fewer recognize it.
Cut the baby in half! was a masterstroke of an answer to reveal the true mother, and here you are griping about the pure wisdom of the ages. Too bad.
Consider the ant thou sluggard………….more words from antiquity that are meaningless for today. Yeah ok, sure.
You could only wish Violet that the word of God is not relevant in 2017.
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Well, you have not answered my question about evaluating wich invitation is the one people should trust. Have you? I suppose it is because, you have no other method exept being born into the “right” sect of the “right” religion exept the occasional turning from one religion to a nother. Do you? Was that how you came to choose your particular invitation? You just got lucky?
What difference does it make, that Christians TODAY think, they are not commanded to punish for anything? For centuries, infact most of Christendom’s history, they have thought that their god wanted them to punish people for all sorts of things, from destroying entire nations and cities, torturing and burning the wrong sort of Christians alive, alledged withches, pagans, infidels and Jews were free prey to be killed and robbed of their property. No gods appeared ever to stop them, or even to tell them they were wrong. Many of the people who enacted these horrific deeds were illiterate and relied on the word of ordained priesthood. Why? Because their god saw those deeds as good, was unable to interact, or because no gods actually even exist? Or is there a nother option?
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“I would not, nor would John, or Violetvisp, would they?”
Let’s say you caught someone in the act of raping a small child or perhaps gleefully torturing a puppy. Are you saying you’d just stand there, turn the other cheek, pour on the charity and love?
“Do you not see, that it is always better to repair, than to wreak havoc…”
I do not have such patience, but God does, and Jesus Christ is all about healing and restoration.
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What was God doing while Josef Fritzl raped and tortured his daughter in a secret cellar for over the course of two decades? Or while Jacques Lesage raped his three daughters over the course of three decades? Or during the six decades of sexual, physical and mental abuse suffered by thousands of children who were wards in Roman Catholic schools and orphanages?
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@IB
Do you think that after all the war, mass slaughter, genocide, ordinary murder, incest, rape and baby killing in the Old Testament, your god, Yahweh had worked it out of his system by the time he decided to manifest as a smelly little 1st century itinerant rabbi?
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Insanitybytes22, what made you think I would do nothing? If I would not make a public execution, that does not mean I would do nothing. What I would do, largely depends on what my capabilities in your example situation were. What are the limits of your god’s capabilities? Is he incapable of anything else, exept threatening with something that comes after death through a particular old book? That seems quite lame. Does it not? Nobody has come back, from these alledged punishment or reward thing either. How could we even try to verify, wether such threats are for real? I mean they do not even work on people who do belive in such nonsense. Do they? Christians are constantly found guilty of raping small children and torturing puppies. Are they not?
I would stop the act, if I possibly could, but I would not take it upon myself to punish the person for their wrongdoing. I would most likely call the authorities to deal with that part. Is that not what you would do? Do you not have such patience as I would have? Why? What made you so rash? Or in other words what made you “as sounding symbal”?
How do you know your god or Jesus has those qualities you claim they have? I agree, that the stories about Jesus are mostly about healing and restoration, but the stories about your god are quite the other sort. Are they not? They are full of wrath and as the topic post suggested, the concept of hell is not the product of a healing or restoring god, but that of an entity with serious anger management problems. Has this god of yours some sort of idetity crisis going on, or has he simply become better at some point of history? How and why did that happen? Has Jesus repaired the obvious injustice of eternal torment in hell? How would you even know?
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… “why they find comfort in such strange beliefs” …
That’s a really fascinating topic. There are two things that seem to be part of our primordial juice. The desire to survive and the desire to be loved. The latter being a proxy of the former. Please like me, please love me. Almost everything we do is a rehash of that. How do we get people to love us. The god thing is a shortcut. Entirely delusional, but it fits in perfectly with the human mindset.
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Interesting thoughts. People who aren’t loved in their childhood are often like a bucket with holes that needs constantly filled. You’re right that invisible friends could be a kind of shortcut.
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The thing is- it happens even when people are loved. We’re trained for that. If you lift up the covers, we dress, speak, learn, communicate, do almost everything we do, in the hope of generating love. Real, or in the case of religion, imagined.
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Exactly, Mr. M. IMAGINED. It’s always interesting to read the believers who can spin yarns so fancifully; as a matter of fact it’s easy. Just look at the above comments. . 🙂 Also interesting how so many of them prefer imagination to reality.
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In a way life is a confidence game, and for them, it’s how they can “win”. The problem is it’s often at the expense of other lives. Insanitybytes, foe example, was happy to defend the Ugandan kill the gays law whilst decrying the possibility an American baker might have to bake a cake for a gay wedding.
Murder = okay. A baker baking cake = utterly unacceptable.
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Nice idea, a new strapline for her blog:
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Violet, a big fat lie, in your own words:
“It’s difficult for Christians to justify the ‘goodness’ of their god: they believe he has knowingly created billions of human beings only for them to spend most of eternity being tortured.”
How hateful must someone be to lie so large.
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I see Ron has already tried to pin you down on this one, but I would be curious to hear what part of that is a lie. If you can find a means to express it.
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Violet,
The part that is a lie is located between the quotation marks.
Here is the truth (look between the quotation marks):
“It is easy for Christians to justify the goodness of God.”
“They believe by faith that he knowingly created the human race to spend eternity with him in joy and happiness.”
By definition, the truth is the opposite of a lie.
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“It is easy for Christians to justify the goodness of God.”
We’ve also seen that it’s easy for Christians to justify the not-so-goodness as well. Which makes the above statement meaningless.
Keep on imagining, SoM.
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Carmen,
It is you atheists who hallucinate the not so goodness of God.
God is good PERIOD.
You can’t understand anything spiritual until you understand that.
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Obviously you mean that your god is good even when he’s not-so-good, as in the examples Ron provided. Divine Command Theory 101. Got it.
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That’s fine so far but are you able to confront the next bit – he knows that in doing so most of the billions of sentient beings are to be eternally tortured. Do you believe he enjoys the design flaw and that’s why he went ahead anyway? Or do you believe he doesn’t have the power to help people make better decisions? I can’t see a third option in such a scenario. He’s either happy with it or he can’t stop it.
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SOM,
Are you arguing that no one will spend eternity being tortured?
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@ron
And whoever else wants to escape this answer:
If your father told you not to jump off the cliffs of Dover, lest you dash your foot against a stone, and you ignore his common sense advice, would you then go on an evangelistic outrage when you jump off the cliffs of Dover, and suffer 4 broken legs, fractured vertebrae, broken arms, and a broken neck, while you cite your father as a torturing monster for your stupidity?
Careful how you don’t answer…………….
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It was a yes or no question. When you answer my question, I’ll gladly answer yours.
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Sorry ron, the questions of the atheists regarding God are traps. I can see them a mile away.
The yes or no can only be understood in the context of truth, which I happily supplied.
In other words, my question is light years better than yours.
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Can’t say as I blame you for deflecting.
Christianity proclaims God is the sole architect of all that exists. As such, God must assume full responsibility for all that transpires under his watch. If we’re deemed defective, then the blame ultimately rests with the designer.
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Thanks for the laughter.
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Thanks, But the jokes on you, sparky.
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It is you sir who have endless answers from scripture that have already answered your thousand questions.
As for me? I believe every word of it, while you disbelieve every word of it.
It is your problem, not mine.
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ColorStorm,
You say you believe, but it’s plain to see that you don’t walk the walk. Because you haven’t sold all your possessions and given the proceeds to the poor as Jesus commanded, and you can’t demonstrate any of the miraculous signs Jesus claimed his believers would be able to perform in Mark 16:16-18. And when I asked you how many adult non-believers you’d won over to Christ with your brand of proselytizing a few weeks ago, you averted with:
… a clear indication the answer was none.
All your BS and posturing fools no one, save maybe yourself. If you had real answers you’d be firing them off in rapid succession without hesitation. The fact that you don’t reveals the true vacuousness of your position.
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Seriously ron?
The word of God is spiritually food to the hungry. If I give you food that you are not hungry for………you will choke on your own indigestion.
As it is, my answers always supply the greater need, and are never given to satiate curiosity.
(Sorry V for the extended byte space, but adieu.)
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ColorStorm, if you as a father told your toddler with your usual confusing and flowery message, peppered with contradictions, not to jump off the cliffs of Dover and then walked away and left it to her ‘free will’, would you be negligent if she stumbled off the edge or would you blame the toddler? Unless you want to suggest humans are on par with your god, your analogy of two equally cognizant humans makes no sense.
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I don’t think he would ever get the chance to be a father. Natural or adopted.
Seriously, can you imagine any child experiencing any sort of normal life under the parenthood or guardianship of Colorstorm? Truly, a more bizarre and creepy image I could not conjure up.
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I have no idea how he conducts himself in real life. People often behave differently from their words on a blog. 🙂
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Not me …. I am horrible in real life as I am here…
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Yes, that’s why you take care of so many animals and lovingly photograph all the insects in your garden. 🙂
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Sssh! That’s my altar(sic) ego.
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Vioelt-
Must you project nonsense into this reply?
Did you miss the part where I said ‘evangelistic outrage?’ Hardly the actions of a ‘TODDLER.’
Surely you know the difference. Now re-read my comment and try again.
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Sorry for projecting nonsense ColorStorm, must be frustrating for you. I re-read the comment and really don’t have a clue what you mean.
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C’mon V. You can do it.
A person (clearly one who is not in need of help changing the diaper…….. remember, the evangelist????) who is fully aware of the danger, and jumps off the cliff to willfully thumb the nose at father…….has no one to blame for the subsequent life in a wheelchair…………but himself, thanks be to stupidity.
I repeat, don’t blame God for the stupid actions of men.
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Is that a valid comparison? Who jumps off cliffs and blames their father? Very few people, or absolutely no-one. Who is supposed to be eternally tortured according to your religion? The vast majority of humans created.
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Ron,
No.
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Then where’s the big fat lie?
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Ron,
It’s all there, written is simple English.
Just read and understand…
…if you can.
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So your issue is with the first half of the compound sentence, then? That it’s not too difficult for Christians to justify the ‘good’ of their god?
In that case, I’m all ears. Justify away.
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Ron,
Maybe you are all ears, but is what is between the ears that counts.
And you seem to be coming up a little short.
That’s what atheism does to the human mind, by the way.
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As usual, it’s all sizzle and no steak, SOM. But thanks for staying in character.
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Ron,
You are the one cooking your own goose.
Please don’t blame that on me.
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One thing that can be said with 100 accuracy is that not one single Christian fundamentalist we have engaged has ever had the integrity to offer an honest, let alone even marginally intelligent, response to anything a non-believer has posted.
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They all playing the supernatural trump card when they have to think about it in any detail – their god is magic and knows best.
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Abracayahweh!
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“Why doesn’t God save everybody?” Is a question I’ve been wondering. Why wouldn’t God want to save certain people if it’s in his power to save them – and if he doesn’t want to save some, how can I be sure I’m among those he wants saved knowing that there are some out there he has the power to save but won’t save knowing that he loves both those he will save just as much as those he won’t save. It seems to weaken “love” as a concept because there are those he loves and yet won’t save.One blog tells me that God preserves a faithful remnant for the sake of his own glory; but wouldn’t it be more glorifying to save the whole tapestry rather than a small piece of it? Another blog says that God saves people to show how wonderful he is, but wouldn’t he be even more wonderful to save everyone? A different blog points to Roman 9:22-23, “What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— ”
I think that’s why so many Christians say things like: “we’re despicable sin-filled hate-filled worms who deserve to burn in the eternal fires of hell being tortured in unspeakably horrible ways as a just punishment for who/what we are – it’s a wonder that God chose to save anybody at all!”
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Every one of those questions is for God Himself to answer (which he has) and for you to say Amen to and to repent of every time and way you haven’t.
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Not sure why, but Trib’s answer reminds me of the video, “Kissing Hank’s Ass”. . . 🙂
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He’s the kind of obsequious follower you probably wouldn’t want if you were an almighty deity – just as well he’s able to identify that he’s ‘chosen’. 🙂
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You could choose to think that Tiribulus’ answer makes sense, or you might suppose the correct answer is “because your god doesn’t actually exist”.
But you’re right, Christians have to think the very worst of their fellow human beings to accept this aspect of their faith without qualification. I think most have had a reasonable enough experience of life to know it couldn’t logically be the case, and imagine there’s a supernatural solution we can’t fathom.
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http://www.desiringgod.org/messages/fear-not-you-worm-jacob
“Worm Theology” as it is sometimes called – has always seemed to me to be a bit of an Eeyore way of living and looking at all people. You’d think it would eventually grow tiresome; but I guess people kind of got used to it and thinking otherwise would be too prideful.
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