From the Mormon newsroom
Previously, our handbook characterized same-gender marriage by a member as apostasy. While we still consider such a marriage to be a serious transgression, it will not be treated as apostasy for purposes of Church discipline. Instead, the immoral conduct in heterosexual or homosexual relationships will be treated in the same way. (link)
Whatever other thoughts I have on the Mormon Church, I must say that on a scale of harmful Christian denominations, the fact that they have a handbook that can be updated is pleasantly surprising. The Catholic Church on the other hand has locked itself into a terrible mess of being unable to move with the times and recognise when their doctrine does more harm than good.
Next stop is the denomination that holds up its hands and admits they’re making it all up on the spot.
I say it everywhere I can get away with it—if we want Reality (it means Truth) to win we must teach the young how to think for themselves … which means give them the basic Tools Of Thought. (And then get out of their way, because once they can think for themselves they are likely to be quite grumpy.)
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But, you still get a planet to rule over, right?
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Is that not Scientology? Difficult to keep track of Jesus’s promises.
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Noooo, this comes straight from Mr. Smith’s translation of ancient papyri penned by the biblical Abraham himself which Smith got from a traveling mummy exhibition. True story.
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*Doctrine and Covenants (Section 76) outlines the planet deal.
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They have also lowered the age of missionaries to 18 and now 11 year olds can attend the temple. No sense giving them time to think. The fluidity in the handbook change you speak is only a tap dance. The outcome is the same.
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Less hate on gay couples, it’s an improvement.
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Certainly. Now if we could end the abusive sex questions to underage children during the one on one worthiness interviews, I’d be convinced they’re willing to loosen the grip. It’s a positive direction I’ll give you that.
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Whatever other thoughts I have on the Mormon Church, I must say that on a scale of harmful Christian denominations, the fact that they have a handbook that can be updated is pleasantly surprising.
That’s because Mormonism is a false religion built on the sinful inventions of men, and as such will be altered as men see fit.
The actually saving Gospel of Jesus Christ IS the forever settled in heaven, mind of the one true and living almighty God, and as such, cannot be altered for all time and or eternity.
Make no mistake Violet. Every atom in God’s universe is, to the subatomic particle, proceeding precisely according to His will.
You WILL find that out. I continue to pray that it’s not too late before you do.
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So, remind me, you’re with the real Christian church aren’t you? The original Catholic church? It’s good to have someone comment who’s not from one of those new fangled false groups that have only been around for 20% of Christianity’s existence. It would be absurd to think the god God got wires crossed for 1600 years before attempting to rectify things. Would almost make it seem like it’s not real….
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Mine is the same gospel that saved Abraham 4000 years ago. I know. That’s what they all say, right?
Too bad you don’t have a podcast Violet. It would be much easier to help you understand things like this if you did.
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So, Tiribulus you are a Jew? Are you? I apologize for the personal question, but I always took you for a Christian, wich is a sort of mash-up of Judaism and Hellenistic polytheism. Have you converted recently, or have I read you completely wrong before?
I find it curious how Christianity took some ideas from Judaism (wich is – I am sorry to say – a mash-up of ancient Egyptian monotheism and typical nomadic monotheism) and then joined them with Hellenistic ideals such as a living breathing demi-god. To me this has always been the major divertion from Judaism to Christianity, that when the ancient Hebrew said someone was a son of god, they referred to either Baali the first son of El, or to angels, or simply to a man who kept the commandments. While in Christianity it is generally thought from very early on, that the Jesus character is supposed to be an actual son of a god, a bit like Heracles, Alexander the Great, or many of the Roman emperors who did not hold their position based on having inherited it from their dads… I guess it is only natural cultural evolution, that the new religion is a result of major cultural influences within the region where it is born, as is visible from Mormonism, wich is truly an American religion, just like Christianity is truly a Roman religion.
On the other hand, I think Violetwisp is a bit harsh on Christianity, as it has changed a lot by giving up burning people alive as they used to, when the churches had more political power.
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The apostle Paul writing to the church at Galatia in the NEW testament, 3rd chapter (though there were no chapters and verses when he wrote it) caps as per the NASB translation committee indicating a quotation from the old testament:
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6-Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7-Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8-The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU.” 9-So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.:
https://biblehub.com/nasb/galatians/3.htm
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Sorry, my bad. However, you said that: “Mormonism is a false religion built on the sinful inventions of men, and as such will be altered as men see fit.” Wich led me to think you had some notion of having a more original view on the Middle-Eastern monotheistic tradition, that has been changed a lot less than any branch of Christianity including Mormonism, especially since you invoked Abraham as if some form of original or merely older source for claims about the supernatural would make your point more plausible. Judaism is the root religion for Abrahamic religions, like the many different branches of Christianity and Islam. Yet, Christianity (in all of it’s thousands of – more or less mutually excluding and constantly culturally altered forms, including Mormonism) is a religion built on the inventions of men and altered from mainly Judaism as men saw it fit, unless you can otherwise prove. Can you?
Religions in general are built on the inventions of men, are they not?
More to the point, the Mormons view themselves as Christian so they are just as Christian as the next man, or you in particular. Are they not? You may bash them as much as you can about being based on the inventions of men, but are you able to show your particular brand of Christianity is in any way more genuine?
How would you know, that the ancient Hebrew scriblings, or the texts attributed to the people who alledgedly lived around the day and age of Paul of Tarsus within Roman Empire, are in any way more valid insight to something supernatural, than those of Joseph Smith? What would be the method to test such a claim?
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Pompous and insulting proclamations from behind a computer screen are always convincing to me. Get with the program, rautakky. He is OBVIOUSLY correct. /sarc
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They gave up forced conversion only because if secular law. They still hang on to their guns though just in case it’s reversed
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Seriously?
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Well I think they gave up forced conversions. Augustine’s little nuggets tossed at the Donatists paved the way for a thousand years of sword play and he used scripture to justify it. Then of course matches were invented and the gun, but Christianity has had a fabulous love affair with torture. That’s where abrahamic faith leads…just ask a Muslim. They’re right behind you on the time line.
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I do not know if the religious right in the US holds their guns so dear because they want to bring back the “good” old times when Christians could kill, maim and torture the infidel, pagan, or heretic. I sincerely doubt if that is the case. However, I think the root problem is the same. The combination of might makes right, tribal moralism, with fear caused by ignorance.
The Abrahamic monotheist religions have at their core the problem of evil, wich leads all too easily to the conclusion, that the monotheistic super god who controlls everything (wether we call it, Allah, YHWH, or Jesus) may do what they want simply as they supposedly can and alledgedly always know what is for the best in the end. By this tortured “logic” a child dying from tetanus poisoning in horrible pain is a sad, but also a necessary and ultimately a positive event, as it simply fits to some divine plan for the greater good.
Yet there seems to be a somewhat “rational” reasoning behind the gun lobby as well. That is, the police at large in the US have a substandard training (at least in comparrison to other western countries). They traditionally often go on patrol alone in a country where there are an abundance of unregistered automatic guns awailable to just about anyone. Add to injury the high social division between the poor and the rich the almost total lack of possibility for social movement. What you get by this combination is a society where people are too affraid to trust their police being able to defend the populace and thus people buy guns, worship them as continuations of their identity and as safety handles, that protect them from their insecurities.
What is strange is, that the rather obvious problem is not dealt with solutions that would actually resolve it, like taking the guns off the streets, making them less awailable (as every illegal gun was once a legal gun) and providing better training for the police. Rather there is a lot of praying and other mumbo jumbo going on and arming the police with military equipment, that may make the police more deadly, but not really re-establish the trust of the general public on them.
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Good points. I don’t know either on the gun thing. It’s just another tradition now I suppose that contradicts faith. Living in the past, hoping the future ends. My real guess is guns are important because it protects one from the tyranny and comforts the fears the ideology has inflicted on humanity. Always trying to distance themselves from the result of religion while clinging to it.
“Tribal moralism”—I like that.
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“might makes right” … one of the most astute (albeit cynical) observations ever. (And the most unchallengeable.)
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Ah, I see Raut got there before me. I didn’t realise you converted to Judaism. That’s a safe bet, it’s got some nice stories, and the consistency makes it seem slightly more plausible …. if you want to pick a bronze age belief system that is.
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Plus the whole amazing blizzard of kabbalah and Jewish mysticism writings…as a lifelong fan of science fiction and fantasy novels, my mind just boggles at the sheer inventiveness of these old Rabbis!
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Aw man. HTML tags aren’t working here anymore?
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Should do, you trying to leave nonsense? Maybe it’s an auto-no-nonsense WordPress filter. 🙂
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The Catholic church does update some of its handbooks.
For example they changed the response to god be with you to god be with your spirit 😁. Some progress, you see
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That’s shocking! A sign of Satan’s infiltration for many of the devout I’m sure. 🙂
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Satan is definitely very busy lately. Did you see the last work of Satan? A letter or whatever they call those essays the pope releases saying there should be freedom of religion or sth close?
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I’m sorry to see that the state of information on your blog has not improved much since I was last around here more Violet.
There ARE people who actually understand the rudiments Christian thought and vociferously disagree. I talk to them all the time.
Hiring a couple to hang out here would be very helpful. It would make the conversation so much more enlightening.
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Tirib—
this is so far down the page it may not seem relevant, hence this quote from your earlier comment: “Every atom in God’s universe is, to the subatomic particle, proceeding precisely according to His will.”
Before anyone nails you to the cross you just constructed, would you like to reconsider?
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No
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I love it … a man with the strength of God in the courage of his convictions. But I’ve just had an enlightenment of my own:
I really can’t be bothered with the same old debates any more.
Discussing the contradictions inherent in Free Will, Predestination, God’s omniscience and all the other childish garbage gets a bit wearying (a lot like arguing with a brick, actually).
Pass, Friend — the field is yours.
Use it wisely … and may you never (r) never wake up to think that you may have goofed.
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http://tiribulus.com/wordpress/the-problem-with-the-the-problem-of-evil/
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