questions and answers: christianity tied in knots
Q: Did Jesus experience temptation like other people?
A: Yes, he did. He experienced temptation like any other human being but he never sinned.
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are–yet he did not sin. (Hebrews 4:15)
Q: Does that mean he was tempted sexually?
A: He was tempted in every way.
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:28)
Q: If he was tempted sexually, would he not have to want sex at some point? And if he wanted sex, did he not commit the thought-sin of Matthew 5:28? Or was he asexual and never actually wanted sex with anyone? Would it be fair if he had a low sex drive and could live without feeling sexual desire towards anyone?
A: He experienced temptation and he didn’t sin. He was tempted by the devil himself.
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. (Matthew 4:1)
Q: So the god Spirit led the god Jesus to be tempted? Can gods be tempted?
God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone (James 1:13)
Conclusions
Jesus didn’t experience real temptation because you can’t be tempted sexually unless your body wants sex, and according to the Bible lust is sin.
OR
Jesus experienced real temptation because he had a normal human body that wanted sex, and therefore committed the thought crime of lust that he condemned.
OR
Jesus didn’t experience any temptation because the god God can’t be tempted.
OR
Jesus isn’t one being with the god God because the god God can’t be tempted and Jesus can.
OR
The Bible doesn’t make any sense at all and this is just one small illustration of one small part that is patently absurd.
This is just my own little ax to grind, but if god really wanted to test jesus, he should have had the devil give him some horrible disease with unrelenting pain, and made him live a full lifetime with it (70+ years)…then tempt him with health. I’d love to have seen exactly how long it would have taken Jesus to crack! Of course nowhere in the bible was jesus tested with pain and disability. Sexual temptation? Cry me a river, that’s the easy stuff! As you’d probably expect, I’m going to go with your option #5: “The Bible doesn’t make any sense at all…”
Compelling photo, Vi, with the color of the leaves and the bird in shadow.
Hey, I just noticed you have me under your “posts I like” category. What an honor!
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Vi, that would be some temptation.
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The Theologians usually cite the Garden of Gethsemane as where Jesus saw the future pain and accepted that path. They argue that the pain was not so much the physical suffering, but rather the wrath of God punishing all sin. The Bible itself is unclear on this point.
Sorry to argue a technical theological point with you Violet. You must be wondering whose side I am on!
I had reflected upon the suffering on the cross versus the doctrine of hell. I could never understand how it was that Jesus could suffer for three (six?) hours and pay for the sins of humanity – yet those who are not saved have to suffer for all eternity. That disconnect never made sense to me.
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No problem Peter…I’ve already asked myself all those questions. In the end, I decided three days of suffering is not enough to justify a lifetime of human suffering (similar to Vi’s comment).
Plus, god had special powers of knowing what was coming, was able to plan for it, and also saw that it would be temporary in duration. He had heavenly helpers to give him comfort (angels and such), and he got a powerful position at the end of his suffering with the entire universe adoring him. I think his brief suffering worked out really well for him.
Your point of how jesus didn’t have to spend an eternity in hell like many of us humans are damned to, is also an excellent point. As jasonj would say, I see a hole!
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You’re so right! There’s a huge difference between temporary agony that you know will end imminently in the release of death, and long term chronic physical pain over years or decades. The temptations in the desert are laughable, imaginary lures of the arrogant male authors.
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Hmmm, I sense a slight hole. What if Jesus only experienced sexual desire for women who weren’t married while he wasn’t married? There would be no adultery in that case.
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There would have been no adultery, but he would have lusted in his mind, and doing that was a sin. I think you might not have ever been a catholic…they really stress the biblical teachings about how even *thinking* bad things would get you a one-way ticket to the Lake of Fire.
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Seriously? That’s a good way to produce some big-time inner-turmoil in people.
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I have wondered at times whether the powerful conversion experience some people cite is to do with the relief they feel when they see a way out of the inner turmoil. That is they have been told they are a sinner, they know themselves to be far from perfect then they have guilt laid upon them. Suddenly the preacher shows them an escape through the gospel. The sense of relief to a guilt ridden person would likely have a profound psychological impact hence explaining the emotional release that can accompany conversion.
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I totally agree again. The way Christians talk about their dark desires and sinful natures, I think those who have a conversion experience have really struggled with their behaviour.
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You do have a point, it can go both ways to an extent. Inner turmoil can come from both a lack of structure and an overabundance of control.
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But it doesn’t say a married woman, the focus is on lust. I read a commentary from a Christian suggesting on the temptation of seeing a beautiful woman, Jesus had no feelings of lust. If that’s the case, he wasn’t tempted. I can look at beautiful people and feel no temptation. Attraction is chemicals is lust.
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“Adultery” insinuates marriage is involved, as far as I’m aware. He may be speaking of a married man thinking lustfully of a woman in that example.
I don’t disagree about the point you are making, I just found that example to be suspect.
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Jasonjshaw, actually “adultery” in Matt 5:28 is speaking of a man who desires to take a wife away from her husband, a man who covets, lusts after another man’s wife, commits adultery, that’s what Matt 5:28 is talking about, if a man has sex with another man’s wife, or if a man desires to take a wife away from her husband, the man commits adultery
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Violet, a husband is supposed to lust after his wife, so Matt 5:28 can’t be saying a man who looks at any woman to lust after her commits adultery. In the Old Testament adultery is a man single or married that has sex with another man’s wife, so the teaching that says, “a man who looks at any woman to lust after her commits adultery” isn’t true.
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I checked out your post and you give Bible references for everything. EXCEPT where it says a husband is supposed to lust after his wife. There is nothing in the Bible to support this idea.
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A husband is supposed to lust after (desire) his wife, the Bible definitely supports that idea
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Can you provide a specific verse?
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The Greek word for “lust after” in Matthew 5:28 is epithumeó (ep-eethoo meh’-o), epithumeó means “I long for, covet, lust after, set the heart upon”. A husband is definitely supposed to epithumeó his wife. A man single or married that longs for, covets, lusts after, or sets his heart upon another man’s wife commits adultery, a husband cannot commit adultery with his wife.
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Many and severe are the prohibitions of the Jews, concerning looking upon a woman, which they aggravate as a very great sin: they say (k), it is not lawful to look upon a beautiful woman, though unmarried; nor upon another man’s wife, though deformed; nor upon a woman’s coloured garments: they forbid (l) looking on a woman’s little finger, and say (m), that he that tells money to a woman, out of his hand into her’s, that he may look upon her, though he is possessed of the law and good works, even as Moses, he shall not escape the damnation of hell: they affirm (n), that he that looks upon a woman’s heel, his children shall not be virtuous; and that a man may not go after a woman in the way, no, not after his wife: should he meet her on a bridge, he must take her to the side of him; and whoever goes through a river after a woman, shall have no part in the world to (o) come: nay, they forbid (p) a man looking on the beauty of his own wife. Now these things were said by them, chiefly to cover themselves, and because they would be thought to be very chaste; when they were, as Christ calls them, an “adulterous generation” in a literal sense: they usually did what our Lord observes, “strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel”. We read in the Talmud (q), of , a “foolish saint” and it is asked, who is he? and it is answered, one that sees a woman drowning in a river, and says it is not lawful for me , “to look” upon her, and deliver her.
(k) T. Bab. Avoda Zara, fol. 1, 2.((l) T. Bab. Beracot, fol. 24. 1. Sabbat. fol. 64. 2.((m) T. Bab. Beracot, fol. 61. 1. Eruvin, fol. 18. 2.((n) T. Bab. Nedarim, fol. 20. 1. T. Hieros. Challa, fol. 58. 3. Derech Eretz. c. 1. fol. 17. 3.((o) T. Bab. Beracot, fol. 61. 1. Eruvin, fol. 18. 2.((p) Zohar in Lev. fol. 34. 4. (q) T. Bab Sota, fol. 21. 2.
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/gill/matthew/5.htm
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Jesus probably sensed a slight hole as well. Life’s like this sometimes.
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Perv
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Depends on which definition of adultery one is using. Roman law?
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Oh dear. I just read another post under your “posts I like” catagory…it happened to be Insanity’s post on height, and how she prayed to god to not make her so tall. Her prayer was answered by her marrying a taller man and her children growing taller than her.
5 minutes later…
While I was originally insulted to have my post in the same grouping as that one, after thinking about it, can see why you thought her post was genius. Carry on Violet!
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I’m very selective with the like button, as they are posts that I’ve enjoyed and recommend. I do sometimes ‘like’ terrible posts so I have a reference to come back to them and so others have the chance to stumble on them. But I did like most of insanity’s height post, thought it was well written and thought provoking. The bits about her god are an additional comedy bonus! 😀
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I saw her “height” post a powerful demonstration as to how god God has absolutely nothing to do with answering our prayers. Just marry a tall guy and have tall children, and you won’t have to suffer the pain of being the tallest person around anymore…no supernatural intervention needed. It was a great!
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I’m sure that’s what she meant. She’s an undercover double agent – her and SOM are one person on a two pronged mission to micro-troll Christian blogs. It’s the only explanation!
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I think this should have been the first option, the others rank below it.
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I thought the others did a great job of logically invalidating Christianity! I wonder how many Christians deconverted on the spot. 😉
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Ask born from above if he is still a christian
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He doesn’t believe in the trinity and has weird ideas about lust, so he’ll be immune.
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BFA has weird ideas about lust? I hope he comes and shares them with us, as I’ve not heard them before.
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Ain’t No, I’m not sure what Violet means about me having weird ideas about lust, Matt 5:28 is a verse that is constantly being used to say something that is not true.
“Adultery” in Matt 5:28 is speaking of a man who desires to take a wife away from her husband, a man who covets, lusts after another man’s wife, commits adultery, that’s what Matt 5:28 is talking about, if a man has sex with another man’s wife, or if a man desires to take a wife away from her husband, the man commits adultery.
Matt 5:28 is not saying, a man that is single that desires a woman that is single, commits adultery. A man that is single that desires a woman that is not another man’s wife cannot adultery, the teaching that says, a man that desires any woman, commits adultery with her in his heart, is false
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Mak, I am definitely still Christian
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Jesus with an erection? Oh my! Now there’s a thought to turn a good christian girl’s head!
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The body of Christ.
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Puts a whole new spin on Christian Sausage Fest.
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I always questioned the Jesus’ temptation episode. When I questioned it I was always given the answer: “We don’t know what Jesus knew and when he knew it.” It seems to me, though, he had some clue that he was going to prepare a place for believers and he was coming back to get them so he knew that he would be in heaven with the god God and have the kingdom at his disposal. So my question has always been, how could the bad bad debbil tempt Jesus with anything that Jesus already technically owned?
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Do Christians think Jesus knew he was their god/their god’s son when he was being tempted? Maybe if he just thought he was a random carpenter’s son who heard voices in his head (which would make wandering into the desert more conceivable), then random voices in his head offering him things was a temptation? Wait, if he got tempted like everyone else, why are we not offered stuff by the bad bad debbil?
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Do Christians think Jesus knew he was their god/their god’s son when he was being tempted?
Well, the temptation comes immediately after he’s baptized.
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted[a] by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.” Matthew 3:16-4:3
Wait, if he got tempted like everyone else, why are we not offered stuff by the bad bad debbil?
There are some who would say that any wealth we heathens have accumulated is from the bad, bad debbil. He does that, y’know, to keep us from know we need the god God.
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But Jesus did have sex, at least with one boy. It’s in the Secret Gospel of Mark which Clement of Alexandria talks about in the Mar Saba letter, and says “Shhhhh”
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Well if he had sex with a boy, apart from it being statutory rape, he wasn’t married so it’s definitely a sin. Which means he didn’t die sinless, which means he hasn’t washed all the Christians’ sins away! Gosh! I wonder if any of them know!
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Well, that boy was certainly cleaned, and bathed, and massaged, and oiled, and perfumed, and massaged, and massaged… 😦
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Maybe he was stressed about meeting the son of the god God?
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Probably, which is why he dressed appropriately for the occasion 🙂
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