learning from the popularity of religion in the USA
In the US, the Russians were godless atheists who were hellbent on destroying the world, so we responded by being overly religious, which led to much fanaticism. (An Atheist in Iowa)
In an era of generally increasing secularlisation, it seems remarkable that so much of the population of a country like the USA is still heavily steeped in religion. And until I read this comment, I’d never seriously considered why this is the case.
So, as an Atheist in Iowa suggests, could it be due to Cold War propaganda? I suspect this is entirely true.
If you promote the two-dimensional notions that there is a body of Evil out there dedicated to taking away freedom and our established way of life, the ‘cornered animal’ fear that kicks in has a tendency to bring out the worst in any species. Humans can become radicalised, more open to violence, and more open to committing atrocities in the name of protecting our ‘way of life’ (whatever that may be).
This is exactly what happened to the population of the USA in the 1950s, and we can see a glimpse of it in the fascinating gallery over in openculture.com. One of the articles reads:
In the eyes of Communism, a child is simply something to be warped into one shape: godless, ignorant of moral responsibility, devoid of intellectual honesty … a creature of the State. In its drive for world power, Communism has found it most profitable to influence teachers and alter text books
There is concern about children being brainwashed, there is fear about world domination, there is panic about the education system being inflitrated by this “focus of the concentrated evil of our time”.
Flash forward to today and the concern we see from some groups of atheists. Let’s look at a couple of quotes from Richard Dawkins:
- If you look at the actual impact that different religions have on the world its quite apparent at the present the most evil religion in the world has to be Islam.
- Faith can be very very dangerous, and deliberately to implant it into the vulnerable mind of an innocent child is a grievous wrong.
Any atheists outside this circle (like me) suggesting that it’s neither kind nor productive to promote vilifying, sweeping soundbites about either individual or specific religions, can quite often face ‘fear and doom’ pronouncements like these, from my blogging buddy Tildeb:
- I think this movement is rotting Western civilization and its founding principles from within and presents us with a difficult and divisive challenge far too few seem willing to take up.
- This is how fundamental values shared by all are undermined incrementally to the point of creating a police state, a state of fascism
I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m think this classic human pattern behaviour! We see great evil and we preach fear and doom. The end of the world is always coming, and it’s not a tune only used by the hyper-religious.
In the 1950s, the ‘doom and evil’ rhetoric only served to create the hyper-religious societies we still see in some parts of the USA. We already know that the anti-Islam ‘doom and evil’ mood in the West (condemning the religion rather than individuals for crimes) is only serving to alienate, marginalise and radicalise young Muslims in our communities. If it continues, I have to wonder what other repercussions we will face.
So let’s learn from history, and draw back from our base reaction of branding people from Other groups as evil. Particularly in this case, we can meditate on the words a wise person once said:
The best way to stop a particular religon from violence, is not to name it evil, but to damp it with secular culture. (Rautakyy)
The United States has always been a Christian nation culturally.
The rise of secularism is retrograde devolution, not progress.
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Do you think the propaganda in the Cold War made your country more religious?
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Violet,
I lived during the Cold War and as a young man eventually gave up religion all together.
Only decades later did I return to it.
I can’t speak for everyone, but I didn’t notice any great Cold War-inspired religious revival.
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Can you spell I. O. R. N. Y. ?
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Nothing about US politics makes sense. I was almost amused the other night after the fire and fury comment – the thought of not waking up in the morning because the USA had elected a clearly demented reality TV star as their president. It would be funny if anyone was watching.
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It was hilarious, and now he’s threatening war with Venezuela.
Did you get my joke?
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Which one? Iorny?
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Of course. Waqs it over everyone’s head? 😦
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Cold war propaganda was simply an exercise in re-packaging. As was Tony Blair’s 45 minute claim. If things continue to go the way they’re going, how long will it take before the narrative that takes over is about North Korea hitting American territory with a missile?
What I find most fascinating is how primitive we actually are. We see even educated people falling into the trap of the “automatic reaction”.
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Mr. Agendist,
Sadly, you and Violet are victims of Cold War propaganda.
That is why you are leftists.
Europeans are more Soviet than most Russians.
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Silenceofmind said: “Europeans are more Soviet than most Russians.” Both I and Michael Gorbatshov actually agree with him.
Gorbatshov once said something along the lines of socialism having succeeded best in the Nordic countries. In Russia, it seems all political systems and ideologies lead to authoritarianism where one “strongman” decides what is good for everyone, wich is actually in opposition to socialist ideals of equality. I live in one of those Nordic countries, so I can bear wittness to this observation by Michael.
The Nordic countries take great responsibility over the individual citizen, to support them, to provide equal quality education for all and equal quality healthcare for all according to the socialist ideals. It is the result of Socialst parties having a lot of political leverage in the democratic processes of government of these countries. No wonder we have very low level of corruption, and highest levels of education, equality and happiness in Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland.
At the same time it is noteworthy, that the values of the average US citizens are closer to those in the Middle-East, than they are to any Europeans. More so, as the level of religiosity increases and the level of education decreases. Funny that.
It is curious, how there is an attempt to create a division line between the western nominally Christian countries and those that are Islamic, when the real division of values goes somewhere completely else. I wonder why this is? Is it simply because the average whitey, in the US has more trouble recognizing who might be a liberal secularist, than who might be a Muslim immigrant just by looking at them?
Ultimately both the ISIS and the “immigration critical” right-wing nationalist extremists have the very same agenda: To create an atmosphere of fear and hatred between Muslims and Westerners. I really hope these two extremist conservative (more or less religious) factions never find each other as allies against us liberal and secular people.
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How long? Just a few days. 🙂
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Sadly, you see much of the same propaganda today used in our war on terror. The evil Muslims who believe in a false god are coming to destroy us and force us to abandon god. Same story different cast.
As far as silenceofmind is concerned above, it was during the Cold War that televangelists and traveling evangelists really hit their stride, tv was plastered with religious services shows, in god we trust was added to paper money, and under God was added to the pledge of allegiance. The 1950’s through the 1980’s saw an explosion of growth in fundamentalist churches such as the Assemblies of God and Oneness Pentecostal churches.
For more information you might find this article extremely interesting.
http://religion.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199340378.001.0001/acrefore-9780199340378-e-398
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Have you watched GLOW on Netflix? It (unintentionally, I think) distils the whole mind-set of the cold war and sets the stage for where we are today. The Russian, the terrorist, the blonde American woman saving the world.
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I haven’t watched it yet but i have heard about it. I may check it out this weekend.
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Here’s the original:
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I remember the original well, my aunt used to watch it when she was a teenager.
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Religion in the US waxes and wanes. There were the 2 Great Awakenings and a mini one in the 70s. I doubt the Cold War had much to do with it except to make people who normally would have been critical of religion, say an Austrian-school economist, less critical, because they were all in same political coalition.
There is this Muslim activist girl who marches in feminist rallies and demands sharia law and gets treated as a hero. I am sure the feminists marching with her don’t really want sharia law but they form part of a political coalition so they don’t criticize her.
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You should read An Atheist in Iowa’s comment. Different perspective completely. As for the Muslim feminist – is it okay for a Christian to be a feminist? Someone who wears heels? Someone who is married?
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Ok. A Muslim girl can be as feminist as she wants but this one is utterly incoherent. Other feminists don’t criticize her insistence on sharia law or other ideas because they form a political coalition. It is not intellectually coherent but it is a matter of political expediency. I posit the Cold War made similar strange bedfellows.
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This is actually hilarious considering evangelicals swept Trump to power, a man-baby who’s in bed with the Russians.
Is there a word sor SUPER IRONY?
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irónico súper
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Beleza! 🙂
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I had been lead to believe that the concept of “If you’re not with us, you’re against us” had been cultivated in the US since it’s inception. It certainly seems that way from the bottom of the Pacific Ocean. Christian fundamentalism was a response to the popularising of concepts such as evolution and secularism in general: faith = good, science = bad; Christianity = good, atheism = bad. From this developed: Christianity + democracy = godly: atheism + communism = absolute evil.
Religion in the US seems to be more popular in the twenty-first century than it was in Aotearoa New Zealand at the beginning of the twentieth century.
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They definitely have different way of looking at the rest of world. It mostly involves not looking much, and feeling superior. 🙂
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At least according to Wikipedia, which does references it’s sources, religiosity in the U.S was increasing steadily since 1850, while it did peak in the cold war, around 1965, and then declined steadily while the cold war was still active. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_religion_in_the_United_States
There doesn’t seem to be a clear correlation to me. I suspect it might have more to do with massive waves of immigrant populations we’ve brought in. Perhaps mixed with the general fear and uncertainty that war brings since religiosity increased greatly through the two world wars. I am certain additional fear from the cold war enhanced the numbers a bit, but I think you also have to remember that this was also the golden age of science as well, and there were strong pushes for scientific innovations during this time to also beat the Russians, so religion wasn’t the only thing that was promoted.
More interesting would be to see how the extremes might have grown, but then again what is extreme today, was likely more mainstream 100 years ago. There were certainly a higher percentage of Christians who supported segregation in 1920 than the percentage today. I thought this was an interesting read on the history of the Christian right. http://are.as.wvu.edu/lebeau1.htm It’s referenced, but I can’t guarantee how accurate it is. Reagan certainly played a big role in stirring the Christian right as well, but this didn’t have anything to do with the cold war. Fear can come from without or within. So telling people that their guns are going to be taken, or telling them secularism is destroying family values, immigrants are taking your jobs, etc, etc.
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Interesting links. But like all data we have look in detail at what it is reporting. If you look at the Gallup data for example, people are polled for their denomination preferences. Until about 30 or 40 years ago, everyone had a denomination. Most people were baptised as babies, married in churches, funerals in churches. Religion was a key part of coming of age rituals, of communities, and everyone knew which church they identified with. That didn’t make people particularly religious – churches were somewhere to go on special occasions.
Being religious is about referencing your god in everyday conversation, expecting politicians to reference gods and praying, having religion on banknotes, your public buildings etc. Is religion a background tradition or a core part of life? Figures on how those attitudes have changed would be interesting, and I’m quite sure would reveal something different about the depth of religious feeling in many parts of the USA.
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It might. But saying the deeper details aren’t reported doesn’t exactly support the original hypothesis. I think there is much more support for an increase in fundamentalism due to the Republican southern strategy. The fact that the Republican party has intentionally got in bed with Evangelical Christianity and have used this is as weapon against secularization it seems like a much more fruitful place to look than the cold war.
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I am really flattered that you called me a “wise person”. I am also somewhat relieved, that none of the previous commentors, directly addressed what I said.
I think, you have a good point too. Cold war scare propably made atheists look worse, than otherwise to the most ignorant part of the US general population. Though, there must be an abundance of reasons why such a big part of the US population is so religious. I should think, that their rather failed system of education must be one reason. Religiosity does not only correlate with low education, it also is often enough the result of low education, as it is (silly, yes, but no less) a method to fill in the gaps in human knowledge and a method to deal with anxiety resulting from ignorance. A nother reason for high religiosity in the US is their failed social security. Or more precisely the lack of any functioning system. The US citizen lives under constant threat of losing not only their job, but with it their healthcare. Or that they become too ill in comparrison to what they can pay for their treatment. It is typical, that such fear, that is not so direct, but real enough, causes a level of wishfull thinking. The bad thing that happened to a neighbour could not possibly happen to me, because there is some strong and caring entity, or a god, that protects me. It rarely is much rationalized or even thought out beyond conceptual hopes people have.
It is like with the often enough repeated sentence, “God bless America” wich is commonly accepted to be a good thing to hope for, but it really does not require much deconstruction, to reveal the subconscious behind it, that this god character is in no business of “blessing” the entire human kind, but is in business of “blessing” some more than others. The expression is a presentation of wish, that this god would “bless” the tribe, that the person expressing it is a member of. This year, a number of TV-channels, at least in Europe, have made their own mock versions of the Donald Trump slogan “America first”, in wich they ask that their country could be at least second in line. If they were not politically correct, and I think it is a good thing that they are as otherwise the discussion might get rather ugly forms, they could make videos about any notable US politician saying “God bless America” and ask that their countries could be blessed too after America has first been blessed.
One constantly runs into this notion of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot serving as some sort of finite examples of how an atheist run society would look like, because they did not lend their morals from a particular, or indeed, from any gods at all. It is a ridiculous thought, and demonstrates the lack of ability to think clearly any not even such a complex concept from whom ever utters it out aloud. A failure of education as much as politics of fear and religious nonsense. As if all the other dictators of the world were not believers of this or that god and members of this or that religion. As if some of the dictators the world has seen had not borrowed their morals from this or that god. As of the supporters of Pinochet, Franco and Hitler, or for example Ajatollah Khomeini, did not sincerely think these dictators (just to name few) lend their respective morals from their god. Hence, the atheism of Stalin, Mao, or even Pol Pot (who incidently was for long supported economically and militarily by the good Christians of the US) has absolutely nothing at all to do with what sort of dictators they turned out to be, exept, that they unlike so many other dictators, did not lean on the authority of a god when they abused people.
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Still with us?
Hope everything is all okay up in your neck of the woods.
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Hello! Think my blogging will be reduced to the annual holiday in Argie-land for a couple more years. There is no time for anything. How are things with you? Any good lurking suggestions? I can always lurk for a few minutes …
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Nah, same old …
You may have heard that Kate (Roughseasin themed ) passed away in August.
Just checking you are all right.
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I did see that in lurk- she’ll be a big miss from the blogging buddy circle. Sorry to hear that, I know you and others were close with her.
No fun type news from Blogland then? Zande been behaving? No new sites to lurk on?
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I can hear you. (How long do these thread subscriptions last?)
Actually, glad Ark reached out, was curious to hear all was well in recently liberated Pictland. You coming down for Xmas?
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What have we been liberated from? I must have missed something. Probably be over around Easter, I’ll wave out the window again. What have you been up to? Do something interesting on Twitter so it’s worth following you. 🙂
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EU, or are you guys going solo?
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C’mon tell the truth vi- you are secretly wondering how to spring news of your ‘second thoughts’ about the vapid noise of godlessness to your readers!
That’s ok, God is rather patient, so many of us will wait til you gather your senses. lol
But lurk on!
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I have lots of thoughts ColorStorm. Mainly along the lines of continuing dismay that humanity progresses so far but learns very little. We’re weird little animals – so transparent yet so blind. So basic yet with delusions of complexity.
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Sounds like the theory of evolution is broken eh vwisp?
Gotta be jealous of the bumblebee, the hummingbird, or the dairy cow. They know their place in the universe, and don’t give a whit.
Such specialists they are, and having lesser tools.
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What it is?
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Just popping by ….
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Hello! Anything exciting happening these days? We’re off to Argie for hols in a couple of weeks, might get back into it…
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I still have all my own teeth! And Liverpool won yesterday 5-0!! Does this count?
Other than that …. not much in blogville.
Long as you’re live an’ kicking ….
Post pics of Argie?
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Yes, maybe, and hang around a bit annoying blog people. Cos I’ll have time for that kind of fun. How’s Zande? Still blogging?
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Yes, and rescuing dogs.
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