life through the lens of Christians
I’ve had a couple of enlightening exchanges with some Christians recently that left me scratching my head even more than usual. Let’s share these experiences.
decay
Christians can have a seriously confusing view of the world. They see reasons, patterns and trends that are not based on evidence, but on fearful panic derived from belief in an old book of multi-authored ramblings.
Homosexual feelings are neither sinful in and of themselves, nor are they God’s design. They’re a natural result of the decay and chaos that runs throughout the creation.
How can decay run through a world that is constantly improving? Where’s decay in almost universal access to education? Where’s the decay in rising standards of living? Where’s the decay in scientific and medical developments that allow people to live longer and in less pain? Where’s decay in the development of generally agreed laws that express commonly understood limits of acceptable behaviour? Where’s decay in people finally realising it’s time to abolish discriminatory practices and allow same sex couples the same rights as heterosexual couples? Personally I’m relieved I live now and not in the ‘less decayed’ 1st century.
the personal relationship with the god God
Christians are always shouting about their amazing relationship with the god God. If you ask them how it’s possible that this god exists, given that he reveals himself as a different being with different opinions to almost every one of his followers, you may be lucky enough to receive an answer like this:
There are certainly elements of individual communication in a person’s relationship with God. But actual truth claims about God should not be derived through such subjective and tenuous pathways.
I guess I’m to understand from this that the ‘evidence’ Christians have of the existence of the god God, in their uplifting personal relationship, isn’t enough for them to believe that the perspective of any other Christians’ amazing relationships hold an ounce of truth. There’s clarity for you. Just as well only one interpretation of the holy book is up for grabs!
Two things- you have heard of entropy? Decay is as natural as growth.
And- if God is infinite, how could any worshipper perceive God, except in part, like single facets of a jewel? The fact that there are different interpretations of scripture is a feature, not a bug.
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Hmm, I think that’s called the optimistic slant. Your jewel metaphor is nice, but I can’t see how it reasonably explains such wildly different perceptions.
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“How can decay run through a world that is constantly improving? Where’s decay in almost universal access to education? Where’s the decay in rising standards of living? Where’s the decay in scientific and medical developments that allow people to live longer and in less pain? Where’s decay in the development of generally agreed laws that express commonly understood limits of acceptable behaviour? Where’s decay in people finally realising it’s time to abolish discriminatory practices and allow same sex couples the same rights as heterosexual couples? Personally I’m relieved I live now and not in the ‘less decayed’ 1st century.”
THANK YOU!
BTW your blog is doing something weird where I go to any one of your posts and it automatically redirects to your home page without me even clicking anything. It’s infuriating! You might check what’s going on there.
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When it redirects, the URL turns into something like this https://violetwisp.wordpress.com/#13728574291411&%5B3224,”rm-transport-1″,0,”rm-transport-1.attach”,null]
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How odd! I’ve removed the music, I think it was slowing the whole thing down anyway. Hope that stops the redirect!
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Is that photo for real?
Christians (all theists, truth be told) are just silly little children who want to believe there are fairies at the bottom of the garden.
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Isn’t it a cool flower? I didn’t realise Scotland had such gems. You can say it’s a lovely photo if you want! 🙂
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It’s a nice photo! Arghhhh, shit, i did it again, didn’t I? 😦
But seriously, that’s a crazy flower. It’s like something from Dante’s 8th realm.
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The more you ask for clarity the more they revel in obfuscation.
The more you highlight the idiosyncrasies and anomalies and outright lies and historical falsehoods they will inevitably claim ”god’s will.” ( or variation of)
John is right. They are Silly People.
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Oh, and please explain ‘Violet’s Music”
Are you the musician?
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Well of course. Otherwise it would’ve been someone else’s music. It’s gone though, it just slowed down the page and possibly caused redirects.
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Hmmm. I am suitably impressed. You have a lovely voice.
I shall have to give it another whirl….traa.
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I just realised what you wrote…”It’s gone”….bring it back! I only had a chance to skip scan before.
Come on…you meanie.
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Yes I read that redirect comment. I had no probs. Didn’t slow down the page either.
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Okay. The things I do for my best blogging buddy! I’ll probably take it back off fairly soon though because it definitely slows it down, at least for me.
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Why would you expect clarity on matters of faith. You are asking for a little too much. Beautiful flowers you got there
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It’s amazing what they come out with! And thank you for noticing the lovely flower … you may well be rewarded in badge form. 🙂
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I found your thoughts very interesting. Have you read the book Blue Like Jazz? I just finished it and I think it really gives a clear picture to some of the things you mentioned. Just a suggestion, its a great read 🙂
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Thanks for your comment! I haven’t heard of that book, but will look out for it.
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Did you really say Scotland?!!! That flower is like something from the best imaginably possible prop workshop for a sci-fi movie for plantlife on a nother planet. It is mindblowing and a perfect example, how reality is so often even more amazing than what our imaginations may conjure up.
Speaking of wich, the decay thing is propably something the Christians have recognized in the real world and their god God serves as an explanation for it and as an escape clause from the change towards the unknown. Small minds and even bigger minds, that have been taught to fear the unknown, are very good at that – fearing the unknown.
There is decay and there is progress in the world. One of the main problems about all religions is, that they may make us give up the fight for progress. If a religion claims a god has set all as it is, then why bother fight what the god has demeaned the world should be like? This is of course what the powers that be would want masses to be like as everything is allready good for them who allready hold the power. In this sort of mindset any religion is just a tool for the mighty to controll the masses. When a new religion rises, on the surf there are new demagogues to grab the power from the demagogues of the previous religions. Same often goes for political ideologies. But no gods ever interfere, not even when people sincerely believe the powerhungry demagogues who claim to weild the power and authority derived from those gods. Why? Because no gods exist, or because the gods are evil?
All human beings have both conservative and progressive streak in them. It is perfectly natural. Masses are controlled by their hope for the better future and their fear of change. Religions are cultural memes that operate on mass controll, so it is natural that they prey on our hopes and fears. It is also natural that they feed us what kind of changes we should be affraid of.
Like in politics it is usually the party, that holds the power wich has to play on the conservative fears of people and the party that is striving for power who appeals to people having desire for a change for the better. Same goes with religions. Just as political parties (in all sorts of government types, since they all have several parties – even in single party countries, where the parties are within the single official party) there are divisions within any organization governing people. Sometimes these elements come to such a collision course, that they openly recognize not to be of the same organization any more. It is typical that the minority party that separates from the main body declares to be some form of “fundamentalist” type, because as they divorce themselves from the direction of tradition, they need to appeal to the origins of the philosophy/religion/political idealism, or what ever, for authority.
This reveals how religions – all of them – are indistinguishable from all other human enterprizes. It casts a serious doubt on any of them being divinely inspired. Does it not? In fact from where I look, it downright demolishes the idea of any of them being divinely inspired.
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Lovely to have your words Raut, I was just wondering where you’d gone and if you’ve posted recently. Did you know that your comment icon doesn’t link through to your blog? I think you should fix that so more people can find you more easily.
Anyway, as usual, you cover so much interesting ground. Your point about religions being indistinguishable from other human enterprises for the reasons you give is great. I’m wondering if you ever had that chat with PeW (in any one of your LONG chats with PeW), as this was something he never seemed to get and you make the point so clearly here.
Thank you for noticing the seriously weird and lovely flower. It’s actually the same wild flower you asked about on a previous post. I know the name now – it’s Viper’s Bugloss or echium vulgare. I’ve never seen before, although apparently it’s rather common.
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Well, well… What a mysterious coincidence, that this particular flower siezed my attention. You see, “rautakyy” translates to “iron-viper”.
Yes I know, that it is a bit hard to find my blog. Anyone can find me by clicking the gravatar icon, and then the link to my blog is to be found. Perhaps I should change the settings. It is a very poor “test” to sift supposedly clever readers from the rest.
I am affraid my discourse with physicsandwhiskey run to a halt when I asked him from whence did Jesus get clothes after leaving the holy sepulchre. Wether it was more likelier, that he was rescued from the cross by people who gave him the clothes and protected him (and themselves) by displaying him as a dead man until they had a chance to move him into safety, or that he was the flesh and blood son of a god (like so many others in his culture had claimed to be) and that the angels gave him some sort of divine celestial robes? Or did he “resurrect” alone in the tomb and then ran around countryside to steal clothes from a clothes line, or something? Perhaps this line of argument upset physicsandwhiskey, or perhaps he got weary of me, but he never replied.
I respect physicsandwhiskey for at least making an effort to seek the truth and as far as I can tell for having higher morals than his own god, but he is a typical internet Christian in, that in the end instead of discussing the actual issues, he runs around long and winding roads of semantics and evasion. I can understand that up to a degree. If a person has invested her/his identity on a particular notion, it is very hard indeed to face the reality even when new facts about the issue are presented. I can symphatize with that.
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