ridiculous religion: welcome to the sexual lust demon
How do you know you were never truly in love with the person you married? When you need to blame a ‘lust demon’ for making you feel attracted towards someone else.
One of my kids, (who can see into the spiritual world,) has described to me what can happen when two people are attracted to each other. When they are not believers, each person’s demons reach out to the other and create a ‘pull’ that both people feel as attraction. When two believers meet and are attracted to each other, (and when it is God’s Will,) it is their angels that help create this encouragement towards each other. Simplistic perhaps, but his description of what happens was eye opening for me.
Personally I have been affected by the sexual lust demon. It is just as the bible describes… a ‘burning’ feeling. Not all that pleasant when you really think about it. In order to get rid of the sexual lust demon, I had to cast it out in Jesus name. Thankfully, Jesus set me free from its burn…
So many people today underestimate satan and his legions. But satan would like nothing more than to rip apart families through infidelity and divorce. Just think of how many people are injured through it…
Is that a hummingbird in the lavender?
She’s affected by the sexual lust demon and her kid can see into the spiritual world. Faux News needs to know about these people!! I’m beginning to see why IB is your favourite blogger… 🙂 It’s the company she keeps.
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It is indeed a hummingbird, but in Mexican woolly sage. Yes, Insanity has lots of charming blog buddies. 😀
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I don’t know if there is such a thing as a lust demon. I think there are demons for sure, but I think pinning everything on a demon is a convenient way to avoid the guilt of sin and deny the need to be fully responsible for our choices and our actions……..
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There’s nothing wrong with your body having a chemical reaction to another person and feeling attracted to them. It’s one of lives fun little quirks when your body’s base function is to reproduce. The problem arises when people can’t see this in its biological context, and panic. Oooh I’m a sinner! It wasn’t me, it was the lust demon!! Very sad. And a bit worrying for the kids brought up in such a superstitious and paranoid environment.
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Sin and demons aside, I believe sex is God given for our pleasure in the proper context. Sure it is a basic biological need, by design, but, in the right context, it is just so much more than only that. I’ve experienced it both ways but it was within the context of committed relationship (marriage) that I found the true depths and beauty of this wonderful gift from God. Priceless.
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Can you tell me where in the Bible it’s written that sex is given for pleasure? Both St Augustine and Martin Luther suggested it shouldn’t be enjoyed and should only be undertaken for procreation within marriage. My own reading of Bible has shown me that lust is mentioned as a separate sin from fornication and adultery, and therefore is clearly referencing lust in the context of sex within marriage. Song of Solomon is written by a condemned womaniser who was cursed by the god God before his death and specifically criticised for having so many wives and breaking the god God’s laws. Certainly there are a couple of passages in the New Testament about married couples not ‘defaulting’ each other but they seem rather specific to the people being in addressed in the letters who were spending long periods apart and whose marriages were suffering as a result. Still, nothing to suggest it should be for pleasure, and lots to suggest it should never be indulged in.
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I wasn’t talking about lust, I was talking about love expressed sexually. Yes, Solomon was sinful, as was King David, as are many biblical figureheads, as we all are. None of us are without sin.
However, the Song of Solomon is included in the bible for good reason and it does show us how the physical side of a relationship is enjoyed and enjoyable. I think it’s the most valuable reference we have regarding sexual enjoyment.
Heaven help Augustine and Martin Luther if they indeed thought so about sex. I have not read about that.
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These are just some of the attractions to be found on one’s journey to Crazy Town. All aboard the Demon Express!
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I might just start a collection. If it wasn’t so disturbing it would be quite hilarious.
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I do not believe in demons, but otherwise I agree with Ann – this is negating personal responsibility.
And if the kid of the person writing this crock of shit is seeing and hearing angels and demons (and no dears, I don’t mean that bloody awful movie or Dan Brown’s crappy novel), then it’s time to get them professional help, before that inevitable day when police investigate their apartment with “I done a bad thing” written on the wall in blood.
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Poor children, I read a post this person wrote involving one of her kids. It is worrying.
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And the neighbors say, “He was such a quiet boy –“
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That “burning feeling” is herpes. My wife is a medical professional and has advised me to have you get that checked out. Infidelity and divorce is simple to explain. Marriage is work and both parties have to work at staying with it. Nothing more, nothing less. When one stops actively working the marriage is doomed. Why do people have to be ignorant to the reasons for divorce?
In the new instant gratification society I don’t doubt that the “me” generation has such high divorce rates. To few intelligent people left to form good solid marriages. Have I seen other cute women besides my wife? Yup I certainly have. Would I consider for a moment stepping outside my marriage? Not on your life. But that’s what it takes to make a marriage work. That’s why my wife and I have survived 16 years together. We know we both have to work to make it work.
The sex is only chemistry or demons is a cope-out used by those who aren’t willing to put in the work. If all that attracted you to your spouse was a sexual chemistry good luck making it work. I was attracted to the mind and heart of mine. Is she cute? Hell yeah she is. But her outside isn’t what I’ve ever found as the reason to marry her. What you describe is pure and simple physical attraction. It’s your mind being an animal because you’re not in control.
I wrote this some time ago.”To steel my soul I need but close my eyes to see her, inhale deeply to smell her, and whisper her name to hear her whisper mine. How do you tell one so special all you feel for her? Of this I have no answer but I look with favor toward our life together and shall never stop trying to find the right words. Until then I pray my heart is heard with its every beat by she who makes my world brighter with just a smile, a touch, a word or a thought. Her presence makes me a better me.”
It’s all in the mind, love, true love is in your head. I don’t need to see her to know her beauty. Because her beauty is far deeper than skin deep. I feel in love with who she is and not what she looked like. That sir is neither angel nor devil, it’s morals, commitment, honor and control.
Morals, in seeking for true love and not sexual attractiveness alone.
Commitment, to myself knowing I deserve to be seen for the me that will never fade with time just as my lover and wife deserves to be seen in the same.
Honor, in my words and deeds and staying true to my promises. “To forsake all others and to love her in richer or poorer until death do us part”. If you can’t even be true to the promises you make then you have no honor.
Control, of my animal mine and not fall for simple physical attraction.
But you can explain away a weak will and lack of commitment to your partner using simple chemistry or demons as a crutch. But I won’t and my wife and I will be together as we promised. “Until death do us part”.
Look Pinocchio, there ain’t no strings on me.
^^^^^^^
That was my reply to the imbecile.
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16 years? You look way too young. I think not fearing the inevitable attraction to other people is key. The person who wrote this obviously was never attracted to their spouse, and didn’t know what to do when a feeling of genuine attraction hit.
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I am 31, I have been with Sarah since we were both fifteen. She has been my wife for sometime as well. But at fifteen I knew this was meant to be. I promised to be hers and she promised to be mine forever sixteen years ago.
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I guess this explains why there is no sexism in religious communities. When it looks like sexism it’s just that demon doing things again. Clever.
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There is no sin. Just demons.
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There is absolutely no biblical basis for this. Nor for spirit world peeping children either. You do manage to dig up the non representative low hanging fruit Violet.
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I agree with you that there is no biblical basis for this belief in spirit world peeping children nor this “vision” that angels shove believers together, but isn’t Satan like a roaring lion going to and fro seeking those whom he may devour? Maybe there’s no biblical basis for saying that demons create a “pull” between non believers, but isn’t it his job to keep people who are already in his grasp from seeking out your God? I’m assuming here that you believe that Satan is real and that demons exist. Perhaps you don’t?
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Hi Ruth,
I wouldn’t blame you for doubting me by now, but I have not forgotten about you. There’s no (not really) biblical basis for a specific “sexual lust demon”. Demons are involved in the evil of the world. They can posses and control unbelievers in a variety of ways. They can influence and orchestrate events. all under God’s permission. The source of untamed and perverted lust is the corrupt and sinful nature of men and women, which demons can exploit, but they are not the source,
Demons are allowed some part sometimes in orchestrating events involving Christians too, still under God’s ultimate control, but the only thing they can personally do to a person in Christ is “talk” to them and tempt them They cannot posses or force any of the already redeemed elect to do, say or think against their will.
I find no biblical basis for anybody who is regularly allowed direct cognizance into the immaterial spiritual realm. I can only be honest.
If I would have realized who said this, I would l have talked to her first. I apologize for my seeming rashness IB. 😦
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Oh, IB didn’t say it. A commenter on her blog did.
As for you forgetting me, even if you did I wouldn’t be hurt over it. The fact is I don’t think there is much you might say that is new to me, if anything at all. MUCH of what you say here is what I used to believe so it isn’t really a revelation. I don’t mean that to sound curt. At.All. It’s just that I think I’ve sat under what you might call biblically correct teaching for a number of years. I know you can’t possibly fathom the process of deconversion but it is real. Much like the conversion experience it is difficult to expect anyone to fully comprehend the deconversion experience.
All of those things you just said was what I believed when I
wascalled myself a Christian, too. I believed people might perhaps have occasional “visions” but even that wasn’t a direct window into the spiritual realm. I didn’t think demons could possess TrueBelievers(TM), either. But then there’s really no sure-fire test for knowing who is or isn’t a TrueBeliever(TM). People who we might consider to be mentally unbalanced because of some of these beliefs cannot be discounted as TrueBelievers(TM). Frankly, what you’ve described and what I believed for many years sounds just as looney tunes.LikeLiked by 1 person
James 1:14 proves the truth that no one is tempted by a fallen angel. James 1:14 each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.
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Evil comes from within, demons are not fallen angels, a demon is an evil spirit that comes from within a person. Mark 7:21-23 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23 All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.
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I’ve got a post on you coming up for that self righteous comment. You’re a low hanger yourself. 😛
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Well, I see the commenter is apparently an expert at casting out demons. But hey — just in case something goes wrong during this ultra abusive and inhumane practice, e.g., someone commits suicide, they’ve provided a disclaimer:
“Disclaimer: By accessing the materials provided on this Web site, you understand that the advice and information provided is based on personal conviction, faith and beliefs, and therefore these materials are offered AS IS. Therefore, as permitted by law, in no event will the owner of this Web site, or any of the authors of content provided on any of these Web pages, be liable for loss or damages that may result from following advice or using information provided on this site.”
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Did you read the post about the son and Jehovah’s Witnesses? I hadn’t checked out the blog before posting this. It is disturbing.
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I want the eyes that kid has, those that see into the spiritual world. I can pay
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Poor kid, imagine being brought up in that environment. Read a post or two, it’s truly disturbing, like stepping back in time to days of utter superstitious ignorance.
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I will pass. That insanity brigade I can’t keep up with
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OK, that’s just insane. Literally, Insanitybytes has described her deep and desperate insanity right there.
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No, it wasn’t her, she’s not quite that lost, although I expect she would defend it on principle.
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Ruth: “As for you forgetting me, even if you did I wouldn’t be hurt over it.”
Oh no my dear. That’s not what I’m saying. I’d have to mean something to you for you to be hurt. I never had any such illusion.
Ruth: “The fact is I don’t think there is much you might say that is new to me, if anything at all. MUCH of what you say here is what I used to believe so it isn’t really a revelation. I don’t mean that to sound curt. At.All.”
No, I understand completely. I believe that’s true actually for the most part too btw.
Ruth: “It’s just that I think I’ve sat under what you might call biblically correct teaching for a number of years.”
I believe that too.
Ruth: “I know you can’t possibly fathom the process of deconversion but it is real.”
It depends on what you mean by “deconversion”. There is no such thing as a person who is raised from death in sin to new life in Christ who is then subsequently lost in death in sin again. Can there be those who were in every single external way indistinguishable from true converts who wind up on websites vehemently denying their former profession? Absolutely. Multitudes of them. Many of them, millions, seminary grads and preachers. I expect that. The bible tells me to expect it.
Ruth: “Much like the conversion experience it is difficult to expect anyone to fully comprehend the deconversion experience.”
I have just given my very abbreviated comprehensions of both. This is the parable of the soils in living color.
Ruth: “Frankly, what you’ve described and what I believed for many years sounds just as looney tunes.”
I don’t mean to sound curt either, but of course.
1st Corinthians. Paul speaking the saints there: (caps indicating a quotation from the OT as per the NASB translation crew)
The bible would be a lie if they weren’t loony tunes to you. (best humor ever btw)
I intend this as no specific offense to you. Honest. Quite the contrary. All I’m saying is that all these pagan websites and authors and relieved recovering escapees from Christianity is exactly what’s supposed to happen. I just shrug and nod my head. The problem is?????? It’s what I expect.
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Oops. Oh yeah. Please hear the apostle of love. John the revelator. First letter, 2nd chapter, 19th verse.
“They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.”
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I’d have to mean something to you for you to be hurt. I never had any such illusion.
Well, that’s not exactly what I meant. It’s just that people (read you and me) have lives. I mean, the internets can be fun and all, but I don’t live for it. I just don’t assume the worst of people, like that they forgot me(because let’s face it, I’m pretty unforgettable :p), or that they don’t like me(because let’s face, what’s not to like?) They might forget a particular conversation, or a date, or reply but that doesn’t mean they are intentionally slighting me. *shrug* I don’t get my feelings hurt easily. That’s all.
The rest of your response is fairly predictable. And I’m not offended by it in the least. I fully expect you to say I was never a TrueBeliever(TM). I’m aware you don’t believe there can be any such thing as a deconvert. I didn’t think so, either. Which is what I meant by you not being able to fully comprehend it. You view this as a choice.
I know you love your God, but it is by his supposed design that this has happened. I mean, according to your theology there are at least some number that he has predestined for hell. They don’t have a choice in the matter. And the real kick in the teeth is that if this God of yours is real he also allows untold numbers of people (perhaps even including you) to either be deceived or to deceive themselves into believing that they are the TrueBelievers(TM).
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I’ll have you know Ruth that you have come up in several conversations I’ve had with with people I know. In complimentary ways too. Of course I tell them you’re not a Christian, but, just in the remote chance that you care, you’ve made an impression on me.
On one hand you are a fellow image bearer of our God. That’s make you (and admittedly everybody else too) important to me. You were also kind and respectful to me and didn’t treat me like a brain dead imbecile, even when your friends, including dear Violet (who is still my buddy anyway 😉 ), were almost demanding that you do so. I appreciated that and it made me like you even more.
Which brings me to the other hand.
The fact that you, unlike every single other person I’ve met here, actually DO know what the gospel is and DO recognize standard historic protestant orthodoxy when you see it, also makes you the least likely (though God is God and I am not) to be one of God’s elect, having now rejected it. That breaks my heart 😦 You can’t possibly know how much I really mean that.
On the the third hand you are an absolute Godsend here. Exceedingly capable intellectually, reliable knowledge of the actual Christian religion, (otherwise non existent on this site,) willing to invest time in a grown up substantive dialog AND a woman!
I very VERY much enjoy talking to you. A most worthy and stimulating opponent. You were also very useful to me. In a good way of course. But you knew that. That dialog would have been impossible with anybody else here. NOT denigrating them or insulting their intelligence AT ALL. Being ignorant on a subject is not the same as being stupid.
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Lovely piece on Ruth, and I agree with you on all her fine qualities. Just one question. Do you think your god God has double damned her to eternal torment because she’s a ‘real’ apostate, whereas the rest of us might get a second chance because we weren’t proper Christians? What a curiously petty and cruel concept you worship!
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God damns all of the reprobate for the same reason.
There are 2 kinds of people on this earth Violet. Those who have been born into sin and death in the first man Adam and those who have been born again, into new and everlasting life in Christ, the last Adam. (1 Cor 15)
We’ve been through this. EVERYbody, including me, deserves the same lake of fire. For reasons sufficient unto Himself, God sovereignly elects to save some of them. Here from my Facebook page.
I did not write this. A guy I met one time calling himself simply “Reformed Baptist” wrote it. I grabbed it then. VERY good:
==================================================
TULIP Explained
Total Depravity:
This does not mean that all persons are as bad as they could possibly be. It means rather that all human beings are affected by sin in every area of thought and conduct so that nothing that comes out of anyone apart from the regenerating grace of God can please God. As far as our relationships to God are concerned, we are all so ruined by sin that no one can properly understand either God or God’s ways. Nor do we seek God, unless He is first at work within us to lead us to do so.
Unconditional Election:
An emphasis on election bothers many people, but the problem they feel is not actually with election; it is with depravity. If sinners are as helpless in their depravity as the Bible says they are, unable to know and unwilling to seek God, then the only way they could possibly be saved is for God to take the initiative to change and save them. This is what election means. It is God choosing to save those who, apart from His sovereign choice and subsequent action, certainly would perish.
Limited Atonement:
The name is potentially misleading, for it seems to suggest that reformed people want somehow to restrict the value of Christ’s death. This is not the case. The value of Jesus’ death is infinite. The question rather is what the purpose of Christ‟s death is, and what He accomplished in it. Did Christ intend to make salvation no more than possible? Or did He actually save those for whom He died? Reformed theology stresses that Jesus actually atoned for the sins of those the Father had chosen. He actually propitiated the wrath of God toward His people by taking their judgment upon Himself, actually redeemed them, and actually reconciled those specific persons to God. A better name for “limited” atonement would be “particular” or “specific” redemption. Sometimes it is said: “Sufficient for all; efficient for the elect.”
Irresistible Grace:
Left to ourselves we resist the grace of God. But when God works in our hearts, regenerating us and creating a renewed will within, then what was undesirable before becomes highly desirable, and we run to Jesus just as previously we ran away from Him. Fallen sinners do resist God’s grace, but His regenerating grace is effectual. It overcomes sin and accomplishes God’s purpose.
Perseverance Of The Saints:
A better name might be “the perseverance of God with the saints,” but both ideas are actually involved. God perseveres with us, keeping us from falling away, as we would certainly do if He were not with us. But because He perseveres we also persevere. In fact, perseverance is the ultimate proof of election. We persevere because God preserves us from full and final falling away from Him.
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You didn’t answer my question.
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Trib CANNOT resist an opportunity to proselytize – for all the good it does here.
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My wife and I Trib a lot we love Trib. Though few know it as Tribadism but anyway does that count for loving Trib?
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Michelle,
. . . cackle, cackle . .. 🙂
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You know neither the people nor the God I know madam. I know plenty of folks like you here. You do not impress me. None of you are even close to the toughest cases even I know of personally, to say nothing of throughout history and the world.
The loudest, most debased and debauched foaming rabid God hating heathens are often JUST the ones He loves to save. He always wins. Your response is entirely irrelevant. That’s His problem Obedience to my beloved Lord is mine. It is my great joy and privilege to serve Him even if not one person EVER listened.
He loved me when I was totally unlovable and set His seal upon my heart for His own namesake. When I stand before His throne, I WILL hear Him say, “well done my good and faithful servant”. I don’t serve Him out of fear. I serve Him out of adoring gratitude.
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The loudest, most debased and debauched foaming rabid God hating heathens are often JUST the ones He loves to save.
Maybe this is what I’m doing wrong? I’m not loud, debased, debauched, nor a foaming at the mouth God hating heathen. I’m just an average, quiet, well mannered, well-behaved, sane heathen.
Sincerely,
The Lovable Apostate
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Ruth, that is one of the real problems with the Calvinist teaching that Trib has included earlier in the post. The TULIP is the Holy Grail of Calvinistic theology. But in essence it says that it is God who decides whom will be saved. This also implies it is God who decides those who will be tortured for eternity, no-one can do anything about as it is God’s sovereign choice.
The combination of the Doctrine of Election with the Doctrine of eternal conscious punishment in Hell makes God appear a monster.
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I totally agree, Peter. I’m pretty familiar with Calvinistic theology, though when I called myself a Christian I was in the Arminian camp. But Tiribulus has also told me before(I can’t quite remember where and I don’t want to hunt it up) that even though it is God who ultimately decides these things that somehow man has a choice in the matter. He says he doesn’t exactly understand how that works but that’s because God is God and well…mysterious ways.
Truth be told when I began questioning Christianity I looked into all sorts of doctrines and if I’m honest, given my understanding of scripture, I would agree with Tiribulus that Calvinism is more accurate than Arminianism. Having said that, I obviously, ultimately came to the conclusion that none of it is true.
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Ruth says: “Truth be told when I began questioning Christianity I looked into all sorts of doctrines and if I’m honest, given my understanding of scripture, I would agree with Tiribulus that Calvinism is more accurate than Arminianism. Having said that, I obviously, ultimately came to the conclusion that none of it is true.”
Ruth, people like you have a special place n my heart. OH how I wanna give ya a brotherly hug and a kiss (on the cheek). You can’t possibly know how badly I want Jesus to save you.
Gospel of John chapter 6. (there is a larger context here, but the principle stands)
65-And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.” 66-As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
Is this you Ruth?
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That touchy feely is why I am glad you hate me. I hate people touching me, they end up with five fingers to the face. /shudder
Much rather be hated than touched.
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TMichelle says: “That touchy feely is why I am glad you hate me. I hate people touching me, they end up with five fingers to the face. /shudder
Much rather be hated than touched.”
I don’t hate you Michelle. I don’t even dislike you. I told you. You are my sister in father Adam and a wonderful creation of our God, bearing His very image and likeness. If we ever met in person, I would remove my hat and hold the door for you. Regardless of what you think of yourself, to me you are a lady. One who needs my Jesus. You are NOT more lost than I was.
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Ahh again you believe i need your Jesus. I assure you I’m fine without him. I’ve seen Christians up close and personal, no thanks. After how I was treated pass, pass and put the peddle down and pass.
If given a choice convert to Christianity or die, thank you death.
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Michelle says: “Ahh again you believe i need your Jesus. I assure you I’m fine without him. I’ve seen Christians up close and personal, no thanks. After how I was treated pass, pass and put the peddle down and pass.
If given a choice convert to Christianity or die, thank you death.”
Is there a place where you have told your story Michelle where I won’t be forced to view dishonoring pictures of you? You’re a beautiful woman, but your nakedness does not belong to me. Whether you like to give it away or not, it’s not mine to take. I won’t
Is there somewhere a person who actually respects you can read about your life?
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Hahah nakedness? Dude I am not Muslim I won’t cover head to toe. If a tank top offends you it’s better you stay away.
I’ve had more than my share of “well meaning” people try and help me and it always ends up in well my god this or my god that. My question would be if your god is so good and just where was he? No place sir.
Sorry if you feel shorts and a tank top or a bikini on a woman is too much to bear. I never mean to offend but I also won’t not be me because it offends someones sensibilities.
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Michelle asks: “My question would be if your god is so good and just where was he?”>
Where was he when?
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When I went to his people and was scorned. When a broken child sought answers and was scorned. When a hero who choose life was scoffed at and ridiculed in his house of worship. So many times in his own house. This blog is not the time or place for it though. I wouldn’t want to hijack someone else’s blog.
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Michelle says: “When I went to his people and was scorned. When a broken child sought answers and was scorned. When a hero who choose life was scoffed at and ridiculed in his house of worship. So many times in his own house. This blog is not the time or place for it though. I wouldn’t want to hijack someone else’s blog.”
Ok, but I’m interested. People who know me will tell you. I am not out to simply “make converts.” Not how you think. I love people Michelle. Your pain screams from this page. I very much want to know why. If you think I will protect or defend church people you do have another thing coming. All I care about is the truth. Most of what tries to pass itself off as the “Christian Church” today is anything but.
if not, I’m not going to push you.
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” I don’t think I have a better understanding of what the gospel is than anyone else here.”>
Oh yes you do.
I JUST saw this, I’m sorry.
I’m not belittling anybody. I’m calling spades. If you like I will write a disclaimer absolving you of all possibly perceived complicity in anything I say and will include at the top of all applicable comments?
Where it counts in this discussion you are both 1000 times more knowledgeable than anybody else here AND willing to be honest. I respect that, but yes, I confess. That is extremely useful to me.If you are right and I am wrong you should have nothing to fear from this.
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Feel free to discuss what you want here. There are no rules, only a request to avoid personal insults if possible. Although I would suggest based on my experience that conversations with Tiribulus don’t go very far. He’s as blinkered and tunnel visioned as they come. Ooops broke my own request. 😉
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No worries this isn’t the place for it. I have a blog he wants to read my story he can deal with a tank top and shorts. Sorry I’m not in a burka and hijab. But I wear what I wear.
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“…where I won’t be forced to view dishonoring pictures of you?” – It takes a warped mind to see a nude body as “dishonoring.”
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I suppose from your point of view that could be true. Much like the story of Pharoah I suppose from your point of view ‘God “will have mercy on whom he will, and whom he will he hardeneth” (Rom. 9:18)’ Maybe your God hardened me. Nice guy.
From my point of view, no that is not me. I do not view scripture as THE Word of God. I don’t believe that the God you worship exists. It’s not as if I believe he does but just choose not to believe. It really doesn’t matter how badly you want Jesus to save me. Either your God has decided not to let him (again, nice guy) OR Jesus isn’t real.
You have no idea how hard I fought to keep my faith, nor how devastating it was to come to the realization that scripture wasn’t inerrant or infallible.
You’ve gone on here about how Calvinism was the historically predominant theology of this country at it’s inception. And that is true. BUT Calvin’s own hand-picked successor rejected that theology. Not only that but to espouse Calvinism as THE Correct theology when for 1500 years or so prior to Reformed Theology becoming prominent other forms of theology existed. I think it would be arrogant to think that any one theologian or group of theologians have cornered the market on correct doctrine, especially 1500 years removed from the first Christian practices. It would behoove anyone to check into what the 1st century Christians believed. When they do they will discover that even then there was conflict and a wide range of beliefs about doctrine.
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I also meant to add that I find Calvinism a monstrous theology. I agree with you that, given my understanding of scripture, it is more accurate than Arminianism BUT that is a far cry from it being true.
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What I wonder is, if the majority of humanity will end up being subject to everlasting conscious torment in hell – then surely life is no gift, rather the cruelest thing God can do is allow someone to be born who he has not chosen.
Hence the only way to keep a loving God and to retain Calvinistic teaching is to conclude that those who are not saved are annihilated. There are quite a few Bible verses that could support this interpretation.
That is what I used to hope when I called myself a Christian as I could not bear the thought of even my worst enemy being tortured for all eternity. But did that make me more loving than God? We start to see the nonsense of some of the theology.
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Peter, reading your comments brings me back to the times I was thinking about all this as I studied scripture — trying to rationalize the irrational. I, too, thought about the 2nd death scenario, but supposedly the second death doesn’t come until after the judgement accompanied by horrific fear.
This scenario is cruel as well because of the human propensity to experience death anxiety. Then, as though there is no remorse for the dead, the birds are invited to feast at Yahweh/Jesus’ table, and gorge themselves on the flesh of all the “lost”.
Have you seen this yet?
— https://youtu.be/-i3mX0YRrjM —
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There was a time in my life where I could have seen five men tormented forever and laughed my ass off about it. That time has since past. I’ve forgiven them, never forgotten, but forgiven. They will answer for what they did but not by my judgment, by a higher one.
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Hi Victoria
Thanks for the video link. It is good to hear a clear thinker talk on these issues. I find that it is no easy way to change my way of thinking. I have for so many years had the thinking that God is good and loving it is still a wrench for me to change my thinking. As Sam Harris eloquently says, God is given the credit for the good things and excused for all the negative.
I suppose we are lucky that the Apocalypse of Peter did not make the final cut of the Bible. In it the Apostle Peter is given a tour of hell. Sinners are shown to be punished by being hung over flames from the body part used most often for their sin.
I just don’t see how God can be called good and loving by anyone who believes this sort of hell is a reality. How many people have suffered mental torment over the centuries over their fear of eternal punishment. But I suppose it is the perfect religious tool because it can’t be proved wrong. Fear is a very significant human motivator, more powerful than greed.
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What I don’t get is this Christian god is supposed to be “all good” and so loving he sent his son to die for ALL men. But then he would discard otherwise decent people for no reason other than they didn’t believe the way Christians tell us we must believe. All based on a man written book that is supposed to be holy but was written centuries after the fact.
I don’t get it. Such a god who would have his son die for all mankind but would then be so unloving to punish people in some lake of fire forever. The two don’t make sense even on base logic levels.
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See what I mean? Absolutely and utterly clueless. Gym time.
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It’s not clueless to anyone but you. Everyone else got it. Did Jesus die for all sin?
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No. I repeat. Absolutely and utterly clueless.
If you are at all interested in a bit of education on historic, actually biblical protestant Christianity, (a thing I very much doubt), please read this:
http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html?mainframe=http://www.reformed.org/documents/westminster_conf_of_faith.html
A shorter version is in the explanation of the TULIP outline just above. This is taken from the Synod of Dort, 1619. The confession on the link is much more complete though.
You will despise every word of either, but at least you will be better equipped to attack Christians without sounding like a comprehensively ignorant and uninformed hatemongering simpleton. 🙂
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There are more than 40 versions of your “holy” book and not one of them is even properly translated from the Torah. yet a faith stolen from Jews can’t even get that right. /smh
Try again but you’ve struck out again.
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Awww look guys he can use big word.
Though your linguistic talents maybe very ostentatious if you do not cease being supercilious i will get extremely obstreperous with you.
I can use them too and English is my fourth language 😛
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As usual you don’t even know your own book.
Jesus died for everyone
John 1:29, “The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, ‘Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!'”
John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.”
John 4:42, “and they were saying to the woman, ‘It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.'”
1 Tim. 4:10, “For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.”
1 John 2:2, “and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.”
1 John 4:14, “And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.”
“The sins of the world” Everyone, believer and nonbeliever.. Awww sorry Struck out again little Trib..
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Hahaha. A nother comedy classic. Jesus died for the sins of the entire world, exept people who do not take one cultural tradition at face value. But no matter, that was just a bit of blunder in the “good book”, wich was fortunately explained away some 16 hundred years after this Jesus character alledgedly had disappeared from explaining his words himself. Or as we say in the real world, had died. Before that people were worshipping him all wrong and burning other people alive for the sake of their faith, in good faith, and this Jesus god did not have the decency to set them straight. And we are supposed to take this story at face value to be saved from eternal lake of fire? Ridiculous?
Simply ridiculous. Or would be, if it was not true that people have been burned alive for this story less than a hundred years ago in the first secular nation on earth and if people still would not try to impose it on impressionable children and on other people with different beliefs or no beliefs at all in such childish nonsense.
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“No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means.”
-– George Bernard Shaw —
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You forgot the glorious patronising sexism.
Ruth is exceedingly capable intellectually, reliable knowledge of fairy tales, (unlike anyone else on your blog Violet, presumably includes you there), she can do clever grown up chat, and Holy Shit! She’s a woman. And she can do all that? Miracles do happen after all.
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Actually that missed the point entirely. I bet Ruth can tell you guys why it’s significant to me that she’s a woman. Seriously. I bet she can.
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Actually, I would like to hear your explanation of that. I’m not sure I do know why it’s significant to you that I’m a woman.
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Because now I won’t have to dispel charges of being a sexist pig who thinks women are stupid. (maybe. with these guys I’m not sure) I put a LOT of time in with you. More than all the men here combined. Because you were the most capable. What gender you were was incidental to me. If only you were black we could have covered that one too.
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Sorry Ruth. Didn’t see it til today.
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Oh wow! Just wow! Actually most of use don’t use the term sexist pig. Pigs being rather nice animals. Guys, however you choose to defend it is still gender specific. There are other terms that the lucid thinking use. Why are you comparing Ruth to men? Why is there a need for that? Your sexism is oozing out of your pores. Believe me.
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Think what you want. I know what I meant.
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Tiribulus,
I have spoken with you in your language. I can still speak Christianese but I no longer believe the Bible to be the inerrant, infallible, word of God. So I now have another language. I’m bilingual like that.
What I’m going to say to you now is that I understand what scripture says about women’s role in the Church and their place among men. But it is you and only you who have made an issue of my gender. So, yes, it is sexist.
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Though I meant to add that I’m still not offended because I understand where it’s coming from.
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Eeeww, I didn’t spot the “AND a woman” comment.
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Don’t worry. Ruth won’t be offended. She knows what I meant. As usual, unlike the rest of you.
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She didn’t and you’ve not replied
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I do hope you know that my references to it being obvious what a great person I am were very tongue-in-cheek.
I see no need to belittle you or be rude to you on the basis that you believe things that I now view as fiction. I once believed those things so if I did treat you like an imbecile I would also have to concede that I am an imbecile and I don’t think that is true of myself.
The fact that you, unlike every single other person I’ve met here, actually DO know what the gospel is and DO recognize standard historic protestant orthodoxy when you see it, also makes you the least likely (though God is God and I am not) to be one of God’s elect, having now rejected it.
That’s a paradox of sorts. If I am not one of your God’s elect it means he predestined me for hell. Either it is God’s choice or not. Of course I realize that you will say that it is because he has seen fit to give me a choice in the matter because he’s God and he can do that.
I saw where you pretty much(paraphrasing here) said that God predestined everyone for hell. It is only through his merciful grace that some will be spared. While I once viewed it very much the same way I now see that as sheer lunacy. I know that you don’t believe that your God owes anything to anyone. But you also view him as your father. Any human who gives birth would be considered a monster if they, upon the birth of their child said, “I owe you nothing, but perhaps I’ll have mercy on you.” Or even more monstrous, “I created you so I can do with you whatever I want to. You deserve torment, but perhaps I’ll show you mercy.” How much more responsibility does a being who essentially birthed the entire universe according to you have to it’s creation? That you (and I) have praised a being who does precisely those monstrous things for his great mercy in finding favor with us because we believe(d) just the right things is beyond reprehensible.
Lastly, I appreciate the kind words you’ve written here about me. But I do wish you wouldn’t use me to belittle others. I don’t think I have a better understanding of what the gospel is than anyone else here. I am just willing to speak your language and converse with you based on what I believed whereas they have all moved on and speak the language of those who don’t believe and call things that they disagree with by it’s name.
Sincerely,
The Apostate
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Ruth, that is a wonderful comment.
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Ruth says: “I saw where you pretty much(paraphrasing here) said that God predestined everyone for hell. It is only through his merciful grace that some will be spared.”
No, everyone born of Adam deserves hell. He saves some of them. In no orthodox version of Christianity in the history of the world is everybody in any way predestined to hell.
“Any human who gives birth would be considered a monster if they, upon the birth of their child said, “I owe you nothing, but perhaps I’ll have mercy on you.”
This is completely non-analogous. A human father and child are equals. Both equally sinful and neither the creator of the other.
God is in a class by Himself.
“How much more responsibility does a being who essentially birthed the entire universe according to you have to it’s creation?”
Gold is responsible to Himself alone and the persons of the Godhead to each other. He is obligated to mankind only insofar as He Himself Has made covenant with them based on His conditions.
“II. God hath all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of himself; and is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which he hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them; he is the alone foundation of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom, are all things; and hath most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them, whatsoever himself pleaseth. In his sight all things are open and manifest; his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature; so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain. He is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands. To him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience he is pleased to require of them.” Westminster Confession of Faith of 1646, Ch II, paragraph II
How many times have a I quoted that now?
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The real issue for me, at least, is ‘Does God as portrayed in the Bible really exist’? I used to think so, now I really struggle to believe – rather it makes more sense to me to see the Bible as a human creation and ‘God’ as a human creation.
I have asked, God, pleaded with God, to show me the truth, to show me if I am wrong. But to no avail. I just can no longer believe the Bible is the work of divine being. Once I started to look at it as the work of humans it actually made a lot more sense. No more tortured rationales to explain contradictory teaching.
So it comes down to ‘is God really there’. That is where I am at. As someone who had lived for many years as a person of faith, the world seems to make more sense without God. But I am sad as it has left a big hole in my heart.
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I can’t read your mind and heart like He can Peter, but I d know He promises never to turn anyone away who seeks Him earnestly. You are certainly not the first person to tell me how badly they wanted to go one believing. How they prayed and did what they thought we’re all the right things, but their faith just slipped through their fingers.
I don’t have all the answers my friend. I wish I could tell you a formula and it would fix this for you. Can I ask for your most troublesome contradictory teachings? Out of curiosity?
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It is no one troubling thing. It is actually the sheer volume of troubling matters. I have always found one can make the case to explain away a particular difficulty. However more and more issues built up ‘behind the dam wall’. Then one day the dam burst!
My issues are not just the Bible. They also include:
– Christian history;
– Christian experience;
– Christian behaviour;
– Christian doctrine;
– Archaeology showing the Bible claims of actual history to be dubious.
I doubt the Bible will ever be the same for me. Once the blinkers are removed from your eyes you can’t just look at it the same way. So the only option to remain a Christian is a form of ‘liberal’ Christianity. But Liberal Christianity never made sense to me.
When people are on a journey away from faith, liberal Christianity may be a temporary stop, like deism, but it is rarely the final destination.
I keep asking why would God give us a book as flawed as the Bible? I can’t answer that question. Unless God was deliberately seeking to mislead people. If that is the case, what does it say about God. But then again Isaiah 6:9-10 is quoted in all four Gospels as well as the Book of Acts!
If you think the Bible is infallible then I suggest a detailed study of the Book of Daniel with an open mind. That book by itself is enough to show the Bible is not what it claims to be. That book screams out 2nd century BC forgery!
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Peter, are you REALLY asking T to do ANYthing with an open mind? Good luck with that.
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In regard to Daniel, Chapter 11 is the one that nails it. You can track it point by point describing what happens in the 2nd century BC to a point, I think, off the top of my head, to around 163 BC it describes exactly what had happened, then suddenly it all falls apart with no accurate predictions. Just so obviously it was prophecy written with hindsight. Then when they tried to predict the future, zero success.
Biblical Scholars try so hard to make the fourth of the kingdoms predicted in Daniel 2 and 7 to be Rome, but it clearly points to Greece. That is when the authors predicted God’s intervention. They were wrong. The book is failed prophecy, and incorrect history. But that has not stopped apologists arguing that black is white to try to preserve its reputation.
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Isn’t that what you might expect during the Maccabean revolt against the Seleucid Empire?
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I wonder if Tiribulus has lost interest in me? Perhaps I am a hopeless reprobate.
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Peter, he primarily targets women.
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I second Arch’s observation. He gets ‘busy’ or doesn’t notice difficult issues, and tends to prefer attempting to use his male ‘charms’ on women. Like I said, wolf circling the flock…
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Frankly, I think he perceives women as weaker and more easily manipulated.
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Careful not to divulge too much, Peter – if T sees you as the “weakest link,” he’ll be inviting you to one of his email “private conferences” —
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“God is in a class by Himself.” – Actually, that’s a true statement, there’s even a term for that class: Nonexistent.
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No, everyone born of Adam deserves hell. He saves some of them. In no orthodox version of Christianity in the history of the world is everybody in any way predestined to hell.
I thought that’s what I said you said. I see where you might have gotten the idea that I said that everyone was predestined to hell. BUT if no one ever accepted your God’s wonderful gift they would all end up there. I’m aware that the Bible makes it clear that God will save some. That’s why I said that in your God’s merciful grace he would. But, yes, for all practical intents and purposes ALL people are predestined for hell unless they grab the lifeline. Because, according to everything that I know about scripture, EVERYONE is born into sin, destined for hell right off the bat, without some sort of intervention.
Gold is responsible to Himself alone and the persons of the Godhead to each other. He is obligated to mankind only insofar as He Himself Has made covenant with them based on His conditions.
Your quotation of the Westminster Confession means very little to me. I’m quite well aware that according to your belief God doesn’t owe anybody anything. God is God and we are not. This is where we will talk past one another because regardless of what the Westminster Confession says we(you and I) will disagree about this.
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“Gold is responsible to Himself alone and the persons of the Godhead to each other.” So, in effect this god is a fascistic dictator (or more typically a dictatorial dynasty), who is not responsible to his subjects? If this god is abowe moral standards set by itself, how could it ever be called benevolent? Even if it fulfilled the moral standards set by itself it would still have to stand the ethical evaluation of humans to be called benevolent by humans. Right? Stalin may never have been responsible to me in any way, but that does not make Stalin benevolent on any standards, exept his own. Supposedly, if he repented on his death bed (wich we simply do not know, and regretted his sins (for say some 5 minutes), he is now in them Heavens while my rational and loving dad and grandad ended up in eternal torment just for not being able to believe any religious nonsense.
In effect, the adherents have to sell their humanity and compassion for other humans in order to growell to the divine dictator to be saved from the horrible fate they supposedly deserve because of a choise made by an imaginary ancestor, since that is what humans were created like by this alledgedly omnipotent creator entity, that very well knew exactly what was going to happen, if humans were created the way they were. Might makes right sort of fantasy. Ghastly, is it not?
Especially so, since none what so ever even remotely objective information has ever been “revealed” that would give any evidence to the existance of this particular god, or anything else similarly unnatural. Correct?
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Oh my Thor! I can’t believe someone actually wrote this! The blogger definitely has the right moniker — especially the “insanity” part.
Added note — There is no “Satan” and there are no demons! If you don’t agree, I urge you to read how this belief got started (hint: Zoroastrianism).
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ANOTHER ONE!! WERE SAVED!! 😀
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Poor Insanitybytes, I should have made it clearer that the quote comes from her blog, but not from her. She says weird things, but nothing this weird yet. But yes, overall, disturbing…
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My apologies to Insanitybytes. But you have to admit … one would be hard-pressed to think this person is of sound mind.
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It is fascinating to see how the Babylonian exile affected the Jewish religion. They found that the Babylonians had better back stories for their deities than the Jews. So figuring their god should be better, not to be outdone The Jews re-wrote their whole tradition to incorporate the bits they liked in the Babylonian stories.
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Peter, this was the work of the group of Aaronid priests known to biblical scholars as the Priestly (P) Source. They rewrote, as you say, much of the Torah. They intended Gen 1 to entirely replace Gen 2 as THE creation story, as they felt the Yahwist (J) Source’s god to be too anthropomorphic, not stately and dignified enough for their tastes. Fortunately, by the time the Redactor came along to combine all four of the sources into the Torah, the purpose for writing Gen 1 had been long since lost, so he simply included both, thus the contradictions.
I just posted this on Ark’s blog – it’s a little silly, but it does make a good point:
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Gob smacked. And they are allowed to breed? Disgusting!
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Unfortunately, they are the ones that tend to breed the most. After all, it’s a woman’s “godly” duty to spread her legs on demand when her husband is horny. He has “needs” you know.
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Maybe it’s the lust demons that make them so into the breeding.
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That must be it! Well spotted. Dagnabbit, Batman, you are so clever!
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Please do some studying and try again Michelle. This is from the heart now. Seriously. Stop now while you’re ahead. Your use of scripture is embarrassing.
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Prove it wrong then Trib. I quoted it directly. I’ve read your “holy” book, the Torah has been misquoted and mistranslated in your books. I’ve also studied the other farce of a book the Quran.
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Come on Michelle. You’re not interested in learning the bible. I’ll give you a clue though. The promise of the Messiah came through Israel, beginning with the covenant with Abraham in Genesis chapter 12. 2000 years before Christ was born. The Jews were very exclusive in their holding themselves as the only beneficiaries of that Covenant. Even though God promised that in Abraham, all the nations of the earth would be blessed.
Every time you see a universal statement of salvation like the ones you quoted, it is a proclamation that God is saving all KINDS of people without distinction. NOT all people without exception.
Not for us only (the Jews only), but ALL nations, kindred and tongues according the the book of the acts of the apostles and the vision given to Peter. Saul of Tarsus was a pharisee of pharisees, trained at the feet of Gamaliel, the prestigious 1st century Jewish Rabbi. He oversaw the stoning to death of Stephen in the 6th Chapter of acts and was commissioned to exterminate the church at Damascus. God saved him, a fanatical Jew and sent him to preach salvation through the Jewish savior to the gentiles. You have no idea how unbelievably significant that is to the New Testament narrative. THAT (in a nutshell) is why the universal passages.
My dear you are clueless. The bible is a collection of books written over a period of 1700 years by 40 different human authors, in ancient languages on the other side of the world ending 20 centuries ago in historic cultures completely foreign to our own.
I have been committed to studying it for 30 years and still have a looooooong way to go. You are in every way and on every level, utterly, comprehensively and in every other other conceivable manner, clueless to the point of embarrassment. There is no shame in this. NObody could do better with the paltry time you’ve spent on it. Don’t misunderstand me.
What IS shameful is to pretend you have any idea what you’re talking about. If you are actually interested, I will take the time to answer questions. If not, you can tell me to drop dead and I really do have no shortage of stuff to do.
I am genuinely impressed by your linguistic accomplishments btw. You’re a smart girl. Anybody can see that. That’s not the point. Who can be proficient in something they’ve not the spent the time and resources necessary to become so? That’s why I would never claim to know the languages you know.
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Nope its just one translation you don’t agree with but let’s face it 6oure the only perfect Christian. I should bow in respect but don’t count on it. You’re so brainwashed as to believe a book that has more than 40 translations as holy and given by the hand of god.
I potty you fool.
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Ok 🙂
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“One of my kids, (who can see into the spiritual world,) has described to me what can happen when two people are attracted to each other.” – How old is this little child?
“Personally I have been affected by the sexual lust demon. It is just as the bible describes… a ‘burning’ feeling.” – I’ll bet a shot of penicillin would clear that right up!
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“You’ve gone on here about how Calvinism was the historically predominant theology of this country at it’s inception. And that is true. BUT Calvin’s own hand-picked successor rejected that theology. Not only that but to espouse Calvinism as THE Correct theology when for 1500 years or so prior to Reformed Theology becoming prominent other forms of theology existed. I think it would be arrogant to think that any one theologian or group of theologians have cornered the market on correct doctrine, especially 1500 years removed from the first Christian practices. It would behoove anyone to check into what the 1st century Christians believed. When they do they will discover that even then there was conflict and a wide range of beliefs about doctrine.”
Which hand picked successor?
Augustine taught every major doctrine that Calvin did in the 4th-5th centuries before Rome polluted the gospel totally out of recognition.
I can’t but be honest here Ruth. You have a skeletal over-simplistic view of theological history where these things are concerned.
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Which hand picked successor?
That was a misspeak. Arminius was taught by Theodore Beza, Calvin’s hand-picked successor. It was Arminius who rejected Calvinistic theology as he believed it made God the author of evil. Even a cursory reading of scripture confirms that God is, indeed, according to scripture, the author of evil.
I don’t think my view of theological history is skeletal at all. Just because Calvin quoted St. Augustine extensively and had similar ideas does not mean that Augustine taught every major doctrine that Calvin did. Did Calvin believe that salvation could be lost? Augustine did. Did John Calvin believe in purgatory? I think not. I can’t but be honest here Tiribulus. You have blinders on where your doctrine is concerned.
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“See, even here, it seems you are implying that others are not being honest. They are simply saying what it is that they believe or know to be true and I the same. Just because it’s different doesn’t make it dishonest. “
I didn’t say a thing about anybody else’s honesty Ruth 🙂 I meant that you’re not afraid to have me be right about the things you know to be true. They don’t even know them to be true so as to be afforded the opportunity.
You are willing to say that the bible supports my views for instance. That has nothing to do with you believing the bible, only that it DOES support my views. Show me one single similar syllable from any other of the regulars here in the last 7 months I’ve been around this blog.
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I can only say that that is the way it came across to me which is why I said seems. If it came across that way to me I can only imagine it would come across to other people. Thank you for clarifying.
I can see where the Bible supports your views. But that is one of the problems with the Bible. I can see where it also supports other views, up to and including purgatory and universal salvation. I don’t agree with those either. And my reading of scripture DOES bring me to the conclusion that Calvinism is a supported and accurate view of scripture. But I can see where other theologies get their views as well.
As for anyone else saying that the Bible supports your views I think that it is likely that others here do think that. That is what they(and I) find so monstrous about your God.
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“As for anyone else saying that the Bible supports your views I think that it is likely that others here do think that. That is what they(and I) find so monstrous about your God.”
Precisely.
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Well looky who it is 🙂
Victoria believes that my (so called) Calvinism “is a supported and accurate view of scripture”?? This would be the very first time you have so much as hinted at such a thing
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No, it’s not the first time I’ve hinted at it, and hint wouldn’t be the correct terminology. Ruth is correct. I’ve been out of the Christian bubble for 15 years now. I no longer speak Christianese. Many Christians can’t handle the hideousness of Yahweh, therefore they have to sugarcoat to swallow the bitter. You don’t. Do not get your chest puffed out, Greg, it’s nothing to be proud of, but at least you tell it like it is.
I am grateful that I had not lost my humanity to the point of not seeing Christianity for what it really is. You, however, have a long ways to go before you realize how effed up your belief system is.
I don’t see that happening any time soon. You need your security blanket and pacifier. Like you said — you sleep like a baby at night.
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Then I missed it. Every conversation you and I ever had indicated you had no idea what Christianity was Victoria.
The YAHWEH I know IS love itself. But His holiness governs His love. He cannot love sin and evil and his own holy nature, which is quite unlike our now sinful one, defines what that love is and looks like.
Our conceptions of love are fatally colored by Adam;s attempt to think independently of his God. We think love means what we like and gooey feelings and hormones. We’re born thinking that way. Jesus Christ frees us us to think His way. That’s what the Greek word for “confession” means. To believe and say the same thing God says.
It’s His love working in and through me that breaks my heart for you Victoria. I have this tiny little brain (there’s your cue again Arch) and a life that began in 1964. I understand nothing compared to a being with no beginning, is perfect in every way and has always known everything. I only know what He tells me.
He cannot sin and cannot CAUSE anyone else to sin. He does however use sin for his purposes, which like Himself, are perfect in every way. IF we realize this universe was made by Him and for Him, AND that that’s exactly as it should be, this is no bitter pill, but life’s greatest incomparable joy.
Evil men do not overcome God. He is not doing everything He can to stop sin, but it happens anyway. That god would be weaker than men and incapable of creating anything, nevermind a universe out of nothing. Once one is freed to think in the proper perspective, with God in Christ as the preeminent purpose for all that is, EVERYTHING makes sense. Not that I understand everything, I don’t have to anymore. I trust my Father.
I know you think this is just a coping mechanism and I understand that completely, but you’re wrong. Only the Holy Spirit can make you see that.
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“(there’s your cue again Arch)” – I needn’t say a word, every comment you make amply demonstrates what a fool you are.
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Greg, do what you have to do to help you cope so long as it doesn’t negatively impact individuals and society as a whole. Believing that you were chosen by a supernatural alpha male is not unlike alpha male baboons and chimpanzees who allow the beta males to partake in the resources. This acknowledgement increases dopamine. You’re getting a neurochemical high at the expense of others, but you’ve taken it to extremes. Essentially, you’re a junkie. But like with most drug addicts, the negative side-effects impact others.
It takes great courage to face reality, including embracing your mortality. Unfortunately, your primitive, and uneducated views lead to more dysfunction. If you kept the rubbish to yourself, that would be one thing, but you don’t. Calvin’s ignorant and inhumane teachings are one of the main reasons why mental illness, including depression, and neurological disorders continue to be stigmatized, and why so many people have been harmed and even die because of this ignorance. He taught that people with mental disabilities were possessed by Satan.
My late husband would be alive today had it not been for the teachings of Calvin and his ilk. Every time you proselytize, you reinforce these archaic beliefs, leaving you party to the suffering of others. It is, indeed, because of people like you that my daughter never got to know her daddy. I do not want sympathy from you. I want you to WTFU.
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Victoria says: “My late husband would be alive today had it not been for the teachings of Calvin and his ilk.”
Absolutely false Victoria. My heart weeps for your pain and loss and that of your daughter, truly it does, but accusing God is not the answer. I would be interested to hear how the specific teachings of the reformation caused this tragedy for you.
Just as with Michelle. I honestly only want to understand. I know I come over here and spar pretty hard, but I actually consider you guys friends. Even Arch (cue again).
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With a “friend” like you, who needs enemies?
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It is absolutely not false and he became a Calvinist when his neurological disorder and depression worsened due to a traumatic brain injury. Of course it was because of people like you who took advantage of the vulnerable that he came into the church. He was being counseled by Calvinist pastors and elders. He was shown shownwhere Calvin claimed that people who committed suicide were possessed by Satan. He told them that he had suicidal thoughts. Instead of being told to immediately seek medical help they fed him this ignorant bullshit which put him over the edge.
You continue to proselytize, you contribute to the enormous harm, suffering and deaths. I hope that someday, people who teach these dangerous doctrine are held legally accountable. For now, they pretty much get away with murder.
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“My heart weeps for your pain and loss and that of your daughter, truly it does, but accusing God is not the answer.”
False. You state:
“I sleep like a baby knowing that every time I hear about some gut wrenching blood curdling act of barbaric depravity that my Father God has from eternity seen fit to assign purpose to it that is PERFECTLY holy, righteous, just and good.”
Disgusting. Spare me and others your inhumane perception of reality.
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Me: “My heart weeps for your pain and loss and that of your daughter, truly it does, but accusing God is not the answer.”
Victoria answers: “False. You state: (and then quotes me)
Me: “I sleep like a baby knowing that every time I hear about some gut wrenching blood curdling act of barbaric depravity that my Father God has from eternity seen fit to assign purpose to it that is PERFECTLY holy, righteous, just and good.”
Victoria: “Disgusting. Spare me and others your inhumane perception of reality.”
You prefer that there was NO purpose? That evil rules the universe Victoria?
As usual, you have my word in front of Violet and everybody else. I am not out to hurt you. Can I please know what church you were in? What can that possibly hurt?
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Who else here believes that my Calvinism “is a supported and accurate view of scripture”? Attested to by millions of hours of cumulative prayerful scholarship? Tomorrow morning we’ll what kind of response that’s gotten Ruth.
======================================================
It is simply not possible for me to properly treat the whole of Church age theological history as regards the Hellenistic influence beginning even IN the 1st century and the imperfection with which the anti-Nicene fathers and even Augustine, held their views. NO man, in including me has everything right.
Suffice it to say that Augustine believed that every one of the eternally elect, yet no more, would be finally saved. Augustine got better as he matured too. He was far more definite on the sovereignty of God at the end of his life than when his studies began (as is often the case). He would have affirmed the most “monstrous” statements I’ve made since you’ve known me. That’s what I had in mind. Read his “retractions”.
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millions of hours of prayer? I take that as an exaggeration since 1 million hours is more than 114 years of nonstop 24 hour a day 60 minutes of ever hour praying..
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You missed the word “cumulative” Michelle. One million people praying for an hour is one million hours of prayer. Millions of hours as regards the prayer and study that went into my views over the centuries might be an actual understatement.
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My apologies the multiple people involved was not clear. Carry on.
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No problem 🙂
I certainly misread people sometimes too.
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Augustine got better as he matured is one of the funniest things I’ve read lately… considering just how hedonistic he admittedly was in his younger years.
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Reading his “Confessions” will show how un-shy he was about admitting that and the struggle it presented him for the rest of his life. He grew up in a society that was even more debauched and degenerate than the United States and the western world are today.
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“He grew up in a society that was even more debauched and degenerate than the United States and the western world are today.” – TRANSLATION: He grew up in a society, the value system of which differed from what T believes is proper.
One man’s debauched is another man’s “Hey, hey, hey –!” We’re naked apes, seeking a bit of happiness during the short time we have to live, and that need not involve following rules set down by anonymous, superstitious, scientfically-ignorant Bronze and Iron Age men, dead for three millennia.
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“One man’s debauched is another man’s…”
God’s opinion is the one one I care about.
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If your standard for debauchery is the West today, then it’s no surprise to me that you would find any previous ‘society’ like the rarefied wealthy position that Augustine enjoyed in North Africa even more debauched (not that this privileged position he had reflects the general ‘society’ it contained). But you can’t attach that definition with today’s degenerate society because this refers to ‘lost’ moral qualities. If the previous ‘societies’ were more debauched than today, then from what do we ‘degenerate’? You see the problem? This statement you make implies that you think a previous society was morally superior. Care to tell us which one, and when, so that we can compare and contrast? Or are you simply assuming that today’s Western society is ‘degenerate’ because you actually think it fails to compare favourably to the biblical model that endorsed those wonderful moral qualities like common slavery, infanticide, and genocide… conveniently commanded, directed, and morally approved by the god you pretend to honour?
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It is simply not possible for me to properly treat the whole of Church age theological history as regards the Hellenistic influence beginning even IN the 1st century and the imperfection with which the anti-Nicene fathers and even Augustine, held their views.
Of course not. That was my point. I’m not even arguing that your theology is the wrong theology. I’m simply pointing out that until there was some “organization” of the doctrines, as it were, there was a wide variety of different practices and theologies already springing up.
Just because he grew far more definite about the matter does not mean that he had it right. Being definite or convinced about a matter does not make it truth. I think you would agree with that. There are lots of people convinced of a great many things that may or may not be true. The fact that got older and changed some of his beliefs does not mean that his initial beliefs were errant.
Regardless of any of that or any Church age theological history, none of it amounts to a hill of beans if the basis(The Bible) on which it is built is wrong.
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For now? Fair enough.
The take home points are. My theology is well represented in history and upon serious study is found to be well represented in the bible as well.
Whether the bible is true or not is a different question.
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Also, I realize that Augustine is one of the Church Fathers, but we are also still talking here about 500-600 years removed from the earliest Christians. I did specifically say 1st C Christians. The reason for that is, those are the ones Jesus supposedly left his instructions to.
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Ruth says: ”I don’t think I have a better understanding of what the gospel is than anyone else here.”
Oh yes you do.
I JUST saw this, I’m sorry.
I’m not belittling anybody. I’m calling spades. If you like I will write a disclaimer absolving you of all possibly perceived complicity in anything I say and will include at the top of all applicable comments?
Where it counts in this discussion you are both 1000 times more knowledgeable than anybody else here AND willing to be honest. I respect that, but yes, I confess. That is extremely useful to me.If you are right and I am wrong you should have nothing to fear from this.
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See, even here, it seems you are implying that others are not being honest. They are simply saying what it is that they believe or know to be true and I the same. Just because it’s different doesn’t make it dishonest.
As for being 1000 times more knowlegeable, alas I explained my reasons to you why this might seem so. I’m speaking your language. They are not. I’m bilingual like that. It is likely they are too, but are choosing to engage you in their own. People who don’t believe the scriptures are The Word of God are mostly unlikely pretend that they are. They, too, are calling spades.
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These historical discussions are very tough to do online too. 😦
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Michelle says: “No worries this isn’t the place for it. I have a blog he wants to read my story he can deal with a tank top and shorts. Sorry I’m not in a burka and hijab. But I wear what I wear.”
A tank top and shorts wasn’t my concern and please understand. In my mind, this is not about me. It’s about you. I do my very utmost to view and treat all women with the same respect I do my own family. If I would not want my wife or daughter to dress or act a certain way, it does not become acceptable because it’s another man’s wife or daughter. (this goes for males too btw) Yes, that eliminates 98.5% of TV and movies.
I wouldn’t like my wife or daughter online in very short shorts or a skimpy revealing tank top. I am interested in your story though and will see if I stay or not. Is there a specific link you recommend?
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I don’t hide my body because someone else dictates what they believe is indecent. Your view point on my life will have little if any impact to be honest. I’ve had hard and fast self righteous people try telling me this or that before. Personally not interested in any more of it. I would contend you have nothing to add to my faith except to attempt to tear it down. My story isn’t short anyway and would take time away from your other interests.
/I am not the droid you’re looking for
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You have missed every single point Michelle, but that’s ok.
If you don’t want me to read your story, I will be bummed, but will not beg. I’d would like to read it or I wouldn’t ask. You’re just gong to have to believe that my intention is not to condemn you and you cannot possibly have a story that will shock me. Do you have a link?
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You’d need to follow the links in the article but yes I had put much of it together.
Follow the links within and you will know my past. Don’t follow them and you will learn virtually nothing.
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Well bless your heart. You have my word that I only want to understand.
I will read it at my next opportunity. Hopefully in the next day or so.
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Anyone who can honestly be unaffected by my past must be very strange indeed or come from a severely broken place as well. Psychiatrists have passed out on the floor just opening the folder with the police report and photos, when they learn what happened they cry. I doubt you will read it and be like yawn yeah so..
but i look forward to any answers you believe you have
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I don’t know if I can tell you anything you haven’t heard before.
Two things I can tell you right now about the God I know.
First, He probably won’t take all of the hurt away.
Two. He will by His grace equip you to bring good to others (and thereby yourself) through your hurt that would have been impossible without it.
Evil did NOT triumph. I promise you. And more importantly, HE promises you.
I just want to try to understand. If I seemed harsh or impatient at times, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to.
I need to finally get some stuff done today. 🙂
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1) I know that the same is true for my god
2) It already is happening. I decided to go to school to be a psychiatrist to help people (girls/women mostly) and I was going to pile up huge debt but even that went away with a surprise income of money.
Forgiven because I never held it against you I just know the kind of advice I always seem to get from Christians.
One was idiot enough to say see if you knew Jesus this wouldn’t have ever happened. I write people like that off immediately.
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“One was idiot enough to say see if you knew Jesus this wouldn’t have ever happened. I write people like that off immediately”.
As well you should. That is damnable lie. Is there somewhere you talk about your faith as well? Again. I’m not going on the attack. I just want to understand.
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I worship the heavenly father. It is a faith erased by the settlers. I have never gone into details about my faith on my blog. The blog was set up to help me heal and my faith doesn’t need healing. So I haven’t written about it in detail.
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Forgive my typos please, I’m in a hurry now.
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Arch quotes me as saying: “…where I won’t be forced to view dishonoring pictures of you?”
and then responds with:
“– It takes a warped mind to see a nude body as “dishonoring.”
“The prude is in fact the libertine, without the courage to face his naked soul.”
— A. S.Neill —
I wasn’t talking about myself Arch. I was talking about Michelle. The human body is beautiful and sacred. Since genesis 3 when God made animal skins to cover the nakedness of our first parents after the entrance of sin, he left us a bit of His garden paradise in the marriage bed alone where nakedness is still intimate and holy.
To expose oneself elsewhere is shameful and makes yourself common instead of precious and special, reserved only for one’s spouse. To partake of a lady’s intimacy is a privilege reserved only for her husband and vice versa. (yes, I have thoroughly and minutely studied every aspect of this in the old testament and it’s redemption and resurrection in the new)
My point with Michelle was that no matter how she views herself, this is the way I will view and treat her. With the same honor and respect with which I protect my wife and would want other men to treat her. I will not violate her intimacy where it is in my control to avoid doing so. It does not belong to me. Yes there can be fine lines. I know when they are being crossed.
Paul says to Timothy in his instructions for correcting error:
1st Timothy 5:
“1-Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers, 2-older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity.
That is my standard. I seek to treat older women like my own mother and younger women like my own sister, in all purity. Yes, I still fight with that old nature, but God has completely regenerated my view of women. I have many female friends, online and off. (like MANY) I love them.
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1st Timothy was a forgery (as was 2nd Tim as well), not written by your hero, Paul, yet you point to it as significant, what does that say about you?
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I’m an idiot (another cue)
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Some statements are so blatantly obvious, they require no response.
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Victoria I see your latest and you make points that warrant response, but I simply can’t do it now. Can I ask what church you were in? Email me if you like. tiribulus@yahoo.com
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Of course you can’t do it now. You can’t do it any time because no response you could give at this point in your belief framework would mean anything. She gave you a straightforward account of how people like you have horrendously affected her life. Any apology and some serious reflection about the nonsense you believe would be a start. Dragging people into private chats is the world of the manipulator – I hope she avoids your invitation like the plague.
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I have a life Violet. Offline responsibilities are very heavy lately. I do my best.
I didn’t do anything to her and I don’t believe any nonsense.
What would be so hard about just telling me what church she was in? What is the harm in that?
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Yes, yes, busy, busy. But lots of time to attempt to manipulate people in private and make it look like you don’t avoid difficult issues. 😉
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Ya know what’s very fulfilling for me? Any people from here I’ve talked to privately know that you have no idea what you are talking about. I don’t even have to defend myself. I keep my word and I keep things that people tell me private.
More from other places, but you would be HORRIFIED if you saw some of the emails and FB messages I get.
Not because I’m so great, but because the church is so dead and powerless. People are looking for help. I rarely find them They come to me. And I promise you I am not alone.
God will ALWAYS have His remnant Violet. Always. Even if this earth lasts one trillion more years.
You can fight, kick, bite, snort, snarl and spit. You can hurl scandalous accusations at people like me until your fingers bleed on that keyboard. What you will never EVER do is make a single microscopic dent in His kingdom.
You can think whatever you want. My heart is on my sleeve. It belongs to Jesus. I am far from perfect, but I love people. Even the people here.
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“What you will never EVER do is make a single microscopic dent in His kingdom.
I give it til the end of the century for those stats to be reversed.
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How many Americans do … whatever… has nothing to do with the kingdom of God Arch. Nothing whatever. You folks really are this universally clueless. American descending into a toilet of perversion, death and debauchery will prove no impediment on the Kingdoms of my God and His Christ.
His kingdom is not of this world. He said so. (John 18:36)
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“His kingdom is not of this world. He said so. (John 18:36)” – Slight correction, T, an anonymous author, later pseudonymed “John,” around 100 AD, who never met him, said that he said so.
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“Dragging people into private chats is the world of the manipulator” – Brandon used to pull the same crap – when he found what he felt was a weak link, he would invite them to private conversations so the rest of us couldn’t interrupt, support, or even see what he was trying to pull.
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I’ve seen a couple of Christians do it. Never an atheist.
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Confession. I’ve done it. I’ve told people to email me text if they want a quick free editorial appraisal.
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I’ve done it. But when I’ve done it it has never been asking a Christian to come chat privately so I can bring them over to the dark side. If someone is struggling, though, and they don’t feel comfortable publicly sharing I’ve invited them to chat privately. That has only happened once or twice. Most of the time when I do it it is related to domestic abuse.
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I think any personal chat to offer support is fine. I spent ages talking a woman through a blog stalking incident. Not the sort of thing you could do in public. On the stalked blog!
I don’t think Violet is talking about these examples though.
I had an offer to take a blog disagreement to email. Why would I want to do that? Why have a negative destructive email discussion? I figured he was bored.
Any blog-related emails I have are constructive and friendly. I hope.
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Agreed. I understand people have time constraints and what have you. I’ve been really busy, myself, lately. But if I’ve got time for a private email talk I certainly have time to respond to online comments where the issues I’m concerned with are raised.
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Yes, I find most people are very courteous with online behaviour. Most people respond to comments about serious issues, and most, if for a reason, who do take something to email, are equally respective. It’s hardly difficult.
But here is a nasty story about email manipulation:
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Good post. I haven’t had the chance to read all the comments but the advice is sound, and an interesting scenario.
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The comments as ever are good, and partly because the woman targeted, Calamity Rae, joined in. Thanks V.
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Oh well, I’ll have to retract my accusation against the Christians. I still feel it was done with manipulation in mind by Greg on this occasion. It’s like the wolf circling the flock and trying to isolate one sheep when it’s looking wobbly/emotional.
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Manipulators generally will not cop to manipulation. I would venture to guess they don’t even recognize that they are doing it. One person’s interest is another person’s violation.
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I think you are right about the manipulation and targeting. Some of them just happen to be Christians. I doubt Ruth and I have that in mind. Sounds like we are going in for that up atheistic attribute of trying to help people.
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Indeed Violet. They try to hone in on those they believe are the most vulnerable, but I am not one of them. I bring up my personal story to demonstrate that their belief system brings enormous harm to society. We can see this pattern here in the U.S. The more religious a state is, the most dysfunctional they tend to be with the poorest quality of life.
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I know you’re not, but one show of emotion and he smells blood.
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Like a shark. 😉
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That’s a lotta crap Victoria. You’re afraid. All I ask is what church you were in. You are afraid to tell me for some reason. What church is responsible for you dear husbands tragic and heartbreaking suicide. (it’s hurts me just to type that. If you only knew)
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LOL — Look who’s projecting. A man who can’t face reality and needs fantasy (the worst kind) to help him cope with death anxiety. 😉 He was attending a TULIP church much like yours, only it wasn’t predominately black, unlike yours.
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Link please?
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I have no link. The church closed down a year after my partner’s death twenty-nine years ago, 8 months after another member committed suicide due the same biblical counseling, and 10 months after the pastor died from a heart attack. To my knowledge, it never re-opened its doors.
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Was it a part of a denomination? OPC? PCA? RPCNA, NAPARC? Reformed Baptist? Which standards did they use? Westminster? Three Forms of Unity?
OR…. was it an IFBC? (Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church) in which case all bets are off as to what flaky fruitcake misuse of scripture and history might have been perpetrated upon the people there. If not one of the top then it was an IFBC, or some other unaccountable independent church that can teach literally anything with impunity.
That will not bring you husband back Victoria. It does however show that you’ve been blaming the wrong criminal.
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You’re wasting your time trying to suggest that he wasn’t indoctrinated with authentic Calvin teachings. He was. He was fed the same bullshit you’re trying to feed us.
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I don’t see an answer to any of my questions Victoria. I see an angry retort from somebody who has grown comfortable in an explanation she thinks has made the pain livable. Is thise were not true, you’d have no problem telling me.
I promise before my God, I do not say that to hurt you.
Church time. Off and on the rest of the night.
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You’re manipulating Greg. What parts of my comments do you not understand? You sound exactly like my late husband’s preacher. Word for word — a Calvin idolater, and no, it was not an IFBC.
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Why does it matter what sect it was? Is that to rationalise and say they weren’t true Christians so therefore they didn’t count? They were doing it wrong? The point is, regardless of church, denomination, whatever, they claimed Christianity and drove Victoria’s husband to suicide. Those are the facts.
Any religion/belief that causes someone to take their own life and puts beliefs over medical treatment is not just seriously flawed, it is outright dangerous.
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roughseasinthemed
I know every Orthodox reformed and Calvinistic communion in the history of the world and exactly NONE would eschew medical treatment where needed. That has nothing to do with what I believe OR even what people who disagree with me, but are still considered within orthodoxy.have ever believed. See?
My dear you haven’t the first flickering clue what Christianity is. Anybody can claim anything. I can say this computer is an ostrich, but that doesn’t make it one. The gospel of Jesus Christ is not amenable to revision at the convenience of fallible men.
My hearts aches for Victoria, as in REALLY aches, but far from being the cause of her husband’s tragic death, the Jesus I know is the only healing she will ever find.
I pray and preach. The rest is up to my Lord.
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Doesn’t it strike you as odd that the Jesus you ‘know’ apparently isn’t the same Jesus that for instance Bornfromabove knows or Silence of Mind knows or Clare knows or most of the Christians in the world ‘know’?
Everyone seems to ‘know’ this Jesus and they seem to get wildly varying messages from him, depending on their culture, their prejudices or just based on what they think a nice guy/god living in their head would think.
I ‘knew’ Jesus, and my Jesus was so much nicer than yours. Maybe that’s why I feel have to defend the Jesus I ‘knew’ from the wonky and nasty Jesus that so many of you ‘know’.
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There’s only one Jesus. He is easy to find in the pages of scripture. Even Ruth said my views are most supported there. However, millions of non Calvinists will be in Heaven. Born from above is a bible butchering hack with ZEEROH exegetical or expositional skills. His heresy is universally denounced by EVERY historic expression of Christianity there’s ever been. Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, all the smaller orthodox denominations and sound independent churches and EVEN the Catholics.
Take him seriously at your own embarrassment.
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I take you all equally seriously at my own embarrassment. Especially the Catholics, the god God’s one true church.
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Violet, I think most of us here have come to realize who Greg really worships and his name isn’t Jesus. Thought you’d get a kick out of this:
The Christian is not to compromise so as to obscure the distinction between good and evil, and is to avoid the errors of] those dreamers who have a spirit of bitterness and contradiction, who reprove everything and prevent the order of nature.
We will see some who are so deranged, not only in religion but who in all things reveal their monstrous nature, that they will say that the sun does not move, and that it is the earth which shifts and turns.
When we see such minds we must indeed confess that the devil posses them, and that God sets them before us as mirrors, in order to keep us in his fear. —John Calvin
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Wow, what does Greg think of this? I’m surprised I’ve not seen that before.
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Came from “Sermon on 1 Corinthians 10:19-24”, Calvini Opera Selecta, Corpus Refomatorum, Vol 49, 677
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Hey, I’m glad we’re in agreement: all religion is criminal!
But I suspect, with no surprise at all, your defense will always be, “But it was the wrong religion.” And you, by a remarkable coincidence, just happen to know the right one, the one that is without blame, the one that truly represents a loving god that wouldn’t dream of killing first born children or send almost everyone to eternal damnation… except it/s/he would, of course, which makes it right and proper and more moral then us humans who eschew such gross immorality.
T, you’ve got your work back to mental health cut out for you. Step One… discard the dysfunctional religious allegiance you have and stop the dissonance that is screwing up your thought processes. It’s hurting you.
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“(it’s hurts me just to type that. If you only knew)” – Arthritic fingers?
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Violet says: “Wow, what does Greg think of this? I’m surprised I’ve not seen that before.”
Um… not much. Calvin was wrong about a bunch of things. I have no pope Madam. If Calvin were never born my faith remains. He would have hated the term “Calvinism”: btw. I only use it because everybody else does.
Violet says: “I second Arch’s observation. He gets ‘busy’ or doesn’t notice difficult issues, and tends to prefer attempting to use his male ‘charms’ on women. Like I said, wolf circling the flock… “
As I said before. Anybody I have the pleasure of talking to away from the suffocating hatred of this blog quickly finds out who and what I am (cue Arch).
For the 100th time. I am not an evidential apologist. There are those who do that work. I am not them. Go find them of you want those conversations. I say again. Until we know HOW we know we anything at all, any questions of WHAT we know are meaningless. Epistemology is my thing.
I cannot pry an adult definition of “probability” out of Arch. Why would I care about anything else he has to say?
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“Until we know HOW we know we anything at all, any questions of WHAT we know are meaningless. – Much like that sentence.
“I cannot pry an adult definition of ‘probability’ out of Arch.” – I gave you a definition straight from the dictionary – an adult dictionary, btw, not that book of fairy tales you subscribe to – but you weren’t satisfied with it because it didn’t complement the point you were trying to make. It’s not my job to please you – I tolerate you, that’s the best someone like you can expect from anyone.
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No Arch you gave me a pathetic cut n paste redundancy that even the Wikipedia entry blows away. It’s not your job to do anything with regard to me, but your continued failure to answer my one question to you is very telling indeed.
You are NOT stupid. You are intellectually lazy and undisciplined. These pitiful pull-string responses I get from you are far beneath you.
Frankly, I think he perceives women as weaker and more easily manipulated”
Yes, because clearly the .0001% of my time spent here in the time I’ve been online tells you everything. Wadda buncha narcissists. You think this tiny little outpost of unbelief and immorality is the whole world wide web?
As I keep telling you Arch, you have no concept of this, but I actually care about people. PAIN is what gets my attention. Pain and despair. Oh I know you’ll say that’s because they are the most vulnerable and one level I may have to grant you that, but I just want to help them. I love them. It hurts me to see people hurt. I have the answer. I want them to have it too. His name is Jesus.
Peter is picking a fight. I can’t tell him anything he doesn’t think he already knows.
One thing’s for sure. Violet is terrified that Victoria might actually email me. I have no idea if she ever will. I hope so, but if she ever does, nobody here would ever find out about it from me.
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You’re yesterday’s mashed potatoes, T – everything you have to say, you’ve said over and over – I don’t know why anyone even bothers to continue responding to you, boredom, I’d guess.
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Yes, I have had to repeat myself several million times here. That is correct as even this report is itself a repetition.
Violet asks: “I wouldn’t worry about Victoria in the slightest. I am concerned that you attempt to engage people you view as vulnerable or hurt in a private forum. Did you read Roughseas post? A perfect illustration of my why it makes me uneasy. “
No I didn’t read it. Nothing to do with my intentions. If you had any idea of how many online conversations I’ve had. I’ve been accused of some rather unsavory things by liars, but bless God, I keep records for just such an eventuality. The evidence is a real mouth stopper.
I’ll repeat myself again. The people I wind up talking to in private find out who and what I am in Jesus name. Far from perfect, but harmless as a church mouse. I love talking to and getting to know people. Because… well.. I love people 🙂
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Yeah, you’re a people person, I noticed that right away.
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Right back atcha —
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HAHA!! TOUCHE!!!
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If you didn’t read it how do you know whether it has anything to do with your intentions?
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Oh, and Neuro can hold her own with you, I really doubt that Violet is “terrified.” The only thing you could frighten are small children.
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I wouldn’t worry about Victoria in the slightest. I am concerned that you attempt to engage people you view as vulnerable or hurt in a private forum. Did you read Roughseas post? A perfect illustration of my why it makes me uneasy.
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Nah. He just likes to be chatty and friendly in private. Why would he read my post about exactly why not to do that?
Most of my blog-related email conversations are on the lines of, how are you, good thanks, how’s it going. I’m fine with that. What is spooky is, ‘let’s take this in-depth topic away from prying eyes’. That applies whatever the subject is. You only ever discuss more than daily greetings with people once you have established trust and credibility plus personal rapport.
You certainly don’t launch into emotional topics, qv the subject of my post where it was very damaging to the woman involved. Like you, I know V has far more sense and better ways to use her time. But like you, I share the concern. It’s very predatory.
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Tiribulus, I am disappointed by your comment about me. It makes me sad.
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What what you say, Peter – he’ll want to hug you!
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“Watch what,” not “What what” – that’s what I get for trying to type and cook at the same time.
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Arch, I suppose that deep down I have been hoping that ‘God’ might use Christians to clarify my thinking. To show me where I have been mistaken. But the attitude shown by Tiribulus and some others destroys that lingering hope. That is why I am sad.
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I don’t believe you Peter. I know a duplicitous scoffer when I see one. These people will be happy to accommodate your games. Followed next by how sincere you are and how people like me are why you left Christianity. You made up your mind a long time ago. Like everybody else, you want a god created in your own image who will let you do what you want. I can’t help you with that.
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That answer just really proves you do not know me.
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I read a bunch of your comments before making mine, to be sure. YOU will dictate how god is allowed to conduct himself and YOU will decide what is loving and what is not and god better get onboard. I know the drill.
Why would somebody come to a place like this looking to strengthen a starving faith? You want confirmation for your rejection of it. You have it.
Don’t get me wrong. I believe you have pain in this. Family, disillusionment, lost wasted years. “What do I do now?”. I know. I’ve met you. Many of you. Different face, same person.
I am not unmoved or without empathy, but I cannot help you. You are coming from a place of self sufficiency and self will wherein you have put God on trial in YOUR courtroom.
There is plenty I don’t know and eschatology is my weakest area of study. There are people who are much better qualified for that than I, but you will not find them in a place like this. You know that though.
I’m easy to find in the very unlikely event that I’m wrong. I can point you to some people, but I won’t hear from you because that’s not what you really want..
My OPC guy finally answered me LAST NIGHT.
Perfect timing. I need a beak from this place anyway (cue everybody?)
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Have fun, thanks for popping by. Hopefully next time you’ll be able to stick around to follow through discussions to completion.
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“YOU will dictate how god is allowed to conduct himself and YOU will decide what is loving and what is not and god better get onboard.”
I see it differently – he is deciding what behavior is, and isn’t worthy of worship.
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I just followed his link and read some of his drivel – now I need a shower!
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Greg the Terrible? Does that sound like the kind of name Jesus would want someone who claims to be teaching in his name to use? He’s so removed from even the basics of the Jesus story. If the god God existed he’d be shaking his head sadly, once again regretting his creation…
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From what I’ve seen so far, you’d be hard pressed to help anyone change a tire, much less with anything more cerebral.
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I’ve often said that T and his ilk are the best ambassadors we could ever hope for.
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Ah, Trib, you’re such a joy to me. Until we know HOW we know we anything at all, any questions of WHAT we know are meaningless. Epistemology is my thing.
Again, we’re in full agreement. The problem is, you do not recognize the fatal flaws in the epistemology you use because it is faith-based. It is a guaranteed method to fool yourself. And you do. All the time. And that makes the irony of this statement coming from you almost unbearably funny to me.
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Trust me please. You’re way behind AND you have no idea what you’re talking about. See the conversations between Ruth (primarily) and I Please.
They are all three conveniently linked from the top of THIS page. (faith based she says 😉 )
After a couple days when you’ve read those conversations and watched the 4 hours of video (posted by Victoria and Ruth) you’ll be caught up,
Then will start the questions that I’ve already answered for them 25 times each in the materials you just read.
Again, not because anybody’s stupid, but because they don’t pay attention when brain dead Christians like myself are speaking. (except Ruth)
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I feel like you’re attempting to groom Ruth in some manner, with this constant praise and use of her name. It’s all rather interesting. Then I’m reminded of the tongue lashing you got from Becky on a couple of occasions and how you backed down like a good dog. You’re not as fake as Brandon but you’re still in that common Christian personality trap lost between who you think you should be and who you really are.
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“I feel like you’re attempting to groom Ruth in some manner, with this constant praise and use of her name.” – I agree with you completely, but Ruth’s a smart cookie, she’s not falling for it. In fact, I don’t know anyone who takes T seriously, outside of his little cult of backslappers and fist-bumpers. He can’t even get along with Brandon or BFA7 – outside of his little mindset, no one else could possibly be right.
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Oh you’re dead wrong about that. Ruth is the least likely to convert. I said that. More repetition. The reason I gave is the same one for my praising her. She’s the only one who has any idea what Christianity is and the only one capable of a grown up substantive dialog. She has actually known and rejected the true gospel. I am grooming her for nothing, but I do respect her. She doesn’t like it when I talk this way, but I can’t help it, it’s true.
Rebecca is my sister in the Lord. The issues we have have nothing to do with anything that happens here. If I upset her enough she will ban me. I follow people’s rules on their blogs. Hers are more restrictive than yours.
No, I have no interest in talking about her here. You can talk all you want.
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It’s always the defense of the pseudo-intellectual to insist on a selected reading list be finished first. Your suggestion is no different… except your favourite author seems to be you. I just love the ego statement that I have no idea what I’m talking about regarding epistemology and ontology. It brings a smile to my face. Such hubris as yours is becoming ever so rare online (where hubris comes to be shattered) so I’m glad you keep its embers alive in your heart. After all, someone’s gotta be an asshole on every thread (I think it is in the rules) and your selflessness to step up and do this job is not only appreciated by me but kindly affords arch1 a bit of a breather! Thanks, Tirib.
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Just arch, Tildeb – everyone knows I’m #1 (except that silly Ark!) —
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Not bad. (Seriously) A wordsmith.
I didn’t give you a reading list though and certainly not of me. If you’ll notice (the repetition marches on) I pointed you to the links at the top of my page that bring you back to THIS very site where the conversation you and I would most assuredly have, is already weeks underway. Complete with excellent A/V resources posted, not by me, but by Victoria and Ruth,
Your command of the language is more impressive than your attention span, but that’s ok. You’ll fit right in here. (your turn 😉 )
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When Tiribulus mentioned his specialty was ‘epistemology’ I thought I should look it up in the dictionary to make sure I correctly understood the term. Unfortunately I initially looked up ‘episiotomy’ in error. I was quite shocked before realising my error.
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Well, the good news is, it’s better to be epissed off, than epissed on —
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