dealing with the problem of men
Curious that it is hard for us to condemn the hungry for being motivated by their hunger, yet easy for us to judge the rapist for being motivated by theirs.
Christians say a lot of seriously silly things when they’re discussing sin, but I think this quote has to take the prize for the most moronic religious utterance on record. Christians tend to be so preoccupied attempting to work out what urges, thoughts and actions they can label as sinful, that they fail to notice that the most important aspect of judging something ‘good’ or ‘bad’ is evaluating the consequences of the action.
In discussion with this particular Christian, he did concede that stealing a bit of bread rarely ruins someone’s life, while rape inevitably always ruins someone’s life. However, I’m still left stunned that hunger for food could ever be equated with any urge to have non-consensual sex. But then maybe I don’t understand how men are wired. Let’s look at some facts about men:
- men are more likely to commit crime (any crime) than women – around 80% of known offenders are male
- men commit the vast majority of sex crimes
Men are clearly a problem for our societies and I find it suspicious that we don’t have more open dialogue about how to deal with this problem of testosterone and the evolutionary competition for mates.
Because there is one very obvious answer that is seldom touted. We need to acknowledge that we have evolved thus far as unrestrained breeding animals but the time has come to control the defunct, potentially harmful urges that come part and package of our biological make-up.
I want us to convince the males of our international societies that the way to positively move the human race forward is a mass programme of voluntary chemical castration, which could be interrupted on request for breeding purposes. In fact, I’m wondering why this obvious solution to crime hasn’t been put forward before.
Perhaps when this programme is in place, no man will confuse hunger for food with hunger for violent, non-consensual sex.
It doesn’t matter whether you understand it or not, there is NO excuse for rape! “She dressed provocatively,” “She was asking for it,” doesn’t matter, NO EXCUSE.
Chemical castration, on the other hand, is ridiculous, and punishes all of the innocent, along with the guilty. I don’t know what your experience has been Vi, but we’re not all like that.
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I think you may be confusing the currently held view of chemical castration as a potential mandatory punishment for sexual crimes. I’m talking about considering it as a voluntary cure for violence in the world. I think the idea has serious merit and I’ve never heard discussed before. Men wouldn’t miss their sex drives because they wouldn’t be there. It’s fear of change that’s holding you back, not a desire for a better world.
My comment about not understanding how men are wired wasn’t a suggestion that there is an excuse for rape. It was a ponder about how anyone could equate hunger for food with a desire to rape.
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I’m just asking: Are you suggesting this for both sexes? Do you not like sex? Do you think sex is just for procreation?
Maybe the Catholic Church should take this up as it’s cause since they believe that’s the only acceptable purpose for sex. It isn’t birth control. It’s sex control. LOL!
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But how would god sort us out, Ruth, if our free will is chemically removed? Hey, I know, let’s develop a chemical that entirely removes our desire to sin, then we’d all go to heaven – but then there’s be the overcrowding problem —
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Good questions! I did have the Catholic Church in mind when I wrote this, it would solve their obsession with sex. Regarding my attitude to sex, you’ve given me an idea for a new post -thanks!
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I strongly suspect a lot of women would, especially the ones I know. I recall a song, from the musical movie, “Li’l Abner</em" – "Put ‘Em Back, the Way They Was” —
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For one thing this commenter has confused hunger for appetite. They’re two completely different things. One must have food to live. Food is a necessity. Sex is not.
In the second place, he has confused rape with an appetite for sex. It is not. It is an appetite for power and control. Rape is not about seeking a mate or procreating. It is to belittle, demean, control, and violate. Period. Chemical castration will not solve this problem. A person, be it man or woman, bent on violence will simply violate in another way.
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Chemical castration would definitely solve the problem of almost allviolence in the world. While rape isn’t about acceptable ‘normal’ sexual desire, sex, violence, power and control are all driven in the chemicals that whizz round our bodies.
This post is tongue in cheek but it does bring up a valid point for consideration. Think about what women have gone through in the past because of their ‘problem’ behaviour and hormones – lobotomies, tranquillizers, electric shock therapy. Why has no-one suggested this simple cure for global violence? It’s doesn’t mess with their brains, it just deletes an unnecessarychemical.
“Research from Scandinavia has reported a drop in [sex] reoffending rates from 40% to between zero and 5%.” There are still issues in terms of side effects, and I can’t even find examples of its use for non-sexual violence, but I think it’s an angle for development.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/18/chemical-castration-soft-option-sex-offenders
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Right, I did google this.
I know your post was tongue-in-cheek, but would you propose this for all males, or first or second offenders? I think there might be more than a few men out there who might disagree about testosterone being an unnecessary chemical.
It has been used here in the States as an alternative to incarceration as terms of probation, but the ACLU opposes it because it does have some rather nasty side effects.
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I’d like to see society discussing it as a voluntary programme for all men. Just think, no violence, no power hungry men ruling the world for the sake of testosterone-fuelled power. It’s just what humanity needs. I’m fairly sure testosterone is unnecessary, it was evolutionarily required for breeding but without sex drives we can make more sensible decisions about the future of our species. Really don’t know where I’m going with this though …
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I have to disagree. Sorry. It’s what I do. You said,
“Chemical castration would definitely solve the problem of almost all violence in the world. While rape isn’t about acceptable ‘normal’ sexual desire, sex, violence, power and control are all driven in the chemicals that whizz round our bodies.”
I don’t think they are. The rapist is motivated to attack because he feels weak. That kind of a mental image would not change because you removed his sex drive. he is essentially a bully. One that needs to be castrated, true. But his view of himself would not go up just because his pecker was down.
The article from the Guardian you posted says,
“But a reduced libido will not necessarily translate into reduced reoffending, and in the absence of double blind randomised trials the data remains inconclusive.”
I’d like to see more data on what inconclusive means before I jump on the “screw sex bandwagon.”
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Try this one on for size:
“If a woman has (the right to an abortion), why shouldn’t a man be free to use his superior strength to force himself on a woman? At least the rapist’s pursuit of sexual freedom doesn’t (in most cases) result in anyone’s death.”
– Republican state lawmaker, Lawrence Lockman
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Only in friggin’ America! What kind of screwed up crackheaded logic is that? This does not compute.
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My brain died a little when i saw this earlier.
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I googled it. Just because I couldn’t believe it was true that anyone could say anything so asinine. I thought, surely, you had misunderstood. But, no, he really did say it. I don’t care that it was in 1990. Why did it take 24 years for him to apologize? And what kind of apology was that, anyway? ZOMG!
Who votes for these people?!? Gah!
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Was it you who said just yesterday something about “look at what they (conservatives) were saying 20 years ago”? Prophetic. I think you can join our Cult of the Great Red Shoe as resident Seer.
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I wish I could take credit for having said it but, alas, no. Wasn’t me.
As recently as 2012 lawmaker, Todd Akin, had this to say when discussing abortion rights for women:
“It seems to me, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare,” Mr. Akin said of pregnancies from rape. “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something: I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be of the rapist, and not attacking the child.”
He doesn’t think abortion should be allowed for any reason short of “life of the mother” situations. And he, apparently, believes that there is such a thing as “legitimate rape”. If it’s a violent attack, according to him, the woman’s body “shuts that whole thing down” and she won’t even get pregnant from a rape that is “legitimate”- whatever that means.
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That one made international headlines.
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Rednecks, “patriots” (i.e., the frackin’ Tea Party), misogynists, Evangelicals, and the rest of the mindless lot that believes the Earth is less than ten thousand years old and that a smattering of goo is a baby.
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12,000 years.
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John, you are SO gonna get chemically castrated!
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Wait till after Carnaval, at least 🙂
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I SO wish I could join you it’s on my bucket list!
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There’s Carnaval and then there’s Carnaval. Different in every place. Sambadrome stuff is starting tonight in SP, but the 24hr street parties (which are freaking HUGE) have already been going for a few day up in the north and won’t stop until next Thursday morning. Here in the countryside, we’ll let off a single firecracker Sunday night and say, Yay.
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Sorry, Pal, a single firecracker won’t do it – if I ever get down there, I gotta do the whole mulligan! We’re talkin’ Rio!
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Rio is Sambadrome stuff, like SP, which is actually better now than Rio, although the media won’t admit that because SP doesn’t have beaches. It’s impressive (for a show), but its in Recife (in the north) is where the real craziness goes on. In the countryside there’s some real oddity with giant puppets dancing around. We have those here but they kinda’ freak me out a little.
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You won’t believe this, but a number of years ago, I was considering moving to Brazil, and Recife was the exact town I was looking into! I know exactly where it is.
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Then that is where you want to be for Carnaval.
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It’s a bit late for this year, but I’ll keep it in mind.
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Oh wow, I bet there’s a great collection of respectable Christian, vile Republican quotes that could be gathered. I’m glad your brain died a little.
By the way, seeing as you’re not planning on having children, do you fancy being my first volunteer? 🙂 Of course, if you don’t have a history of violence you might be a waste of time as a test subject …
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Haven’t found a reason yet to ever get violent… so yeah, sorry, but I’d just mess up with the study 🙂
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Here’s something for you>
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Haha, very appropriate! The greatest threat to women is men. Which begs the question, why am I the first to propose the chemical castration solution?
Following our chat yesterday about national heroes, are you a Tim Michin fan? The greatest Australian to live (well, greatest Australian piano-playing comedian). Genius. Well done Australia!
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Minchin is a good lad, even for a sandgroper. We, however, have only two national heroes. One is a horse (Shhh, it was actually from New Zealand, but don’t EVER say that above a whisper, and never in the presence of a filthy Kiwi), and The Don. That’s it, and that’s all a country should need.
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Someone actually said that! And a lawmaker to boot!
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A prime candidate for the first testing round of chemical castrations! I’m sure he’d jump straight forward for the chance to benefit humanity.
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This man is sick in the head. But this is not strange. One of our lawmakers a few years ago said something demeaning about women that I don’t want to remember and if I could remember I wouldn’t want to write in public.
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Yikes.
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It’s why I now carry. My gun levels that strength playing field. 🙂
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I am curious about the chemical castration / no violence thing.
During WW11 ”authorities” supposedly added bromide to soldiers’ tea to dampen if not nullify naughty sexual urges.
http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2013/11/potassium-bromide-sedative-trenches-tea
For what its worth I look at a plate of fish and chips and immediately think of fish and chips.
Strange but true.
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Really? How bizarre! That’s got to be really counter-productive for battle requirements. I’d love to see more actual facts (rather than my scraped together hypothesis) about this. But men have obviously been suppressing research in this area, not much data around except for on sex offenders. Why are you all so scared of losing your testosterone?
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I suspect for the same reason you wouldn’t want to lose your estrogen. What is Yin without Yang?
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What is the flower? It is beautiful.
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It’s a lilly.
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Don’t listen to Arch, it’s not a lilly. We got given a cutting when we were in Argentina, ugly unpromising green stalk I wanted to rip out. Then those flowers appeared, very briefly, they’re stunning. I was under the impression it was some weird Central American potato plant. But I’ve just been informed I did a mistranslate in my head, so, no idea. Not a lilly though.
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Well, it has all of the characteristics of a lilly. What is it’s Spanish name?
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On two points, I agree with you: (1) unrestrained human breeding is a problem, and (2) we haven’t learned to effectively manage the effects of testosterone. However, to call men “a problem for our societies” is a grave error, as is pathologising an entire sex for the behavior of some. 80% of known sex offenders are male — yet answer me how many males do not commit sex crimes?
The failure here seems not to be testosterone – although you’re quite right in saying that we really having evolved better strategies for mates, which itself is a pointless exercise now. Rather, the failure appears to be viewing men as failures and incapable of change – “boys will be boys,” or even that “testosterone is a problem.” The urges are not the problem. It is teaching boys and men to recognize those urges, and older men teaching the younger ones how not to be dominated by them.
Testosterone is an element born of nature, like the wind or the tectonic plates. Biologically, it is responsible for the uniqueness of males, just as estrogen is to females. Misunderstood and unproperly handled, they can be destructive forces. But when we approach it as a potential ally and source instead of as something to be fought, wonderful and creative things can happen.
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Thanks for commenting! I agree with you that it would be really useful to raise people’s awareness of how chemicals work within our bodies. I’ve always felt a bit of a separation from my chemicals – I’m not sure if women do more than men because of the breadth and rhythm of fluctuations we experience through life, or if it’s just me – so I find it amusing that men are so attached to their testosterone. Anyway, the suggestion in the post was intended to be science fiction food for thought combined with some anti-patriarchal poking – making men a problem to be solved. The conversation continued beyond my ability to follow it on ‘scratching our itches’, if you’re interested. There are links to fascinating studies with primates, articles on oxytocin and loads of other related topics scattered throughout the comments.
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I had a good and loving Christian tell me:
“Btw, I don’t consider marijuana possession to be a “mistake”. I believe it will become legal eventually, perhaps even in my fucked-up Republican dominated state of Indiana. How would you like it if I said you made the mistake of getting raped?”
My mistake to be raped? Verse HIS choice to use an illegal drug and he got caught. Really they MUST be the same because he says they are. It is stupid how people defend rapists. I think anyone who does should be raped in the most vile and violent way and let’s see how they feel after.
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I don’t understand that point about marijuana at all. Does it actually make sense on any level? I get your anger but I don’t think an eye for eye, or any form of punishment is effective. Punitive measures certainly have their place in terms of deterring some crimes, but I think as a species we need to move beyond the notion of punishing and find more effective methods of avoidance and rehabilitation – with effective containment where no harm can be done until we’ve got better at the first two.
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There is no rehabilitation. A vast majority repeat the same crime. They get more violent and end up committing murder as well.
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