a curious christian attitude to sex
The Christian Bible is quite clear in its attitude towards sex outside marriage: it’s very bad. So much so, the character Jesus, one of their gods, suggested that it is as much a sin to think about sex with someone other than your spouse, as it is to have sex with someone other than your spouse.
In Christian times gone by, sex was equated with lust, which was seen as a sin in any circumstances. The Bible is clear that earthly desires, including sexual desires in marriage, are sinful:
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. (Colossians 3:5)
‘Lust’ or ‘sensual passion’ or ‘inordinate affection’, depending on the translation, is clearly listed as being separate to fornication or sexual immorality, and therefore obviously referring to sex within marriage.
Indeed, the great church father St Augustine stated that sex should only be used for procreation:
The patriarchs possessed their wives for the work of procreation, not ‘in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God.’ This is so great that many today would contain themselves more easily for their whole life from all intercourse than to hold to the norm of not uniting except for offspring, if they were to be joined by marriage. (The Good of Marriage)
And of course Martin Luther, the father of Protestantism was equally clear about the dangers of sex within marriage:
Whoever is too passionate in love-making commits adultery against his own wife. (Source)
So it’s curious that in our sexually enlightened world of today, where sex is generally understood to be a pleasant and positive experience, many Christian teachings have flipped the message to suit the mood of society. In the eyes of these Christians, women and men alike must be available to have sex with their spouse on any lustful whim, regardless of any extenuating circumstances on the part of the other:
What kind of woman refuses her husband access to her body? To me that’s as primal a responsibility as breast feeding my child; sleepy, sick, hungry, headache, dying in bed even, if its in my power to pour myself out for my family, it should be my pleasure. Sex and submission and mutual surrender are beautiful, wonderful gifts that God gives. (Emily Rose Lewis)
Dying in bed?? What about if she is of advanced years, in late stage dementia? Apparently if I don’t think an old woman with Alzheimer’s would enjoy sex with the now stranger she married, I am “sexually repressed”:
This guy was the woman’s husband and they had a relationship. It’s sad to me that some people can only see “rape” and not love and comfort. Do you know that intended her harm? No, but that is the automatic assumption. It’s interesting, because I find that to be a very sexually repressed idea. (Insanitybytes)
The automatic assumption by anyone with an ounce of sense is that someone who is institutionalised with dementia is unlikely to recognise their husband and unlikely to be able to give consent. As it turns out, the man was acquitted and his wife was in an earlier stage where she appears to have been able to make her own decisions. But the Christians were arguing that questioning the acts of the husband was a “horrible perversion of the whole idea of marital intimacy” before it was established what stage of dementia his wife had.
Curiously enough, after these two conversations I think I actually feel more comfortable with the old-fashioned Christians who only had sex for procreation.
Colossians was a forgery – Paul didn’t write it, as per Bart Ehrman.
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Fine. There are many similarly themed verses to chose from. 1 John 2:16:
“For everything that is in the world—the desire for fleshly gratification, the desire for possessions, and worldly arrogance—is not from the Father but is from the world”
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I’m Christian & Jesus is definitely not one of my gods, the Messiah is the Son of God, not God, also the Messiah never said if you think about sex with another person other than your spouse, it’s the same as having sex. The Messiah said if any man looks at a woman to lust after her, the man commits adultery with her in his heart, what the Messiah is saying is this, if a man desires to take s married woman away from her husband, the man has committed adultery, a man that is single that desires a woman that is not another man’s wife, does not commit adultery
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A husband is supposed to lust after his wife, so Matt 5:28 can’t be saying a man who looks at any woman to lust after her commits adultery.
https://bornfromabove7.wordpress.com/2014/09/13/a-christian-believes-adultery-is-a-man-coveting-another-mans-wife/
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Spam-link! OR – pay for advertising! Sorry, but that could be construed as defending Vi, for which I’ve already been criticized.
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Just to clarify that I’m happy for people to link to their sites when it adds to the discussion. It’s much easier for those interested to click directly for further reading.
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Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honorable in every respect; and, in particular, sex within marriage is pure. But God will indeed punish fornicators and adulterers.
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“God will indeed punish fornicators and adulterers.” – Why? Why would a god, capable of creating an entire universe, care what a bunch of naked apes do with our genitals?
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That verse just says they should be faithful to one another. It doesn’t even mention desires of the flesh or lust within that arrangement. If you have nothing more specific that clearly contradicts the verses I’ve given then it’s obvious you’ve fallen for the same lies.
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Violet, the New Testament was written to the church, the church are those who are led by the Spirit, the desires of the flesh have no power over those who are led by the Spirit, if a husband & wife are truly born of the Spirit, then they will not be led by the flesh
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Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
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I usually think your interpretations make more sense than other Christians but on this occasion you’re not convincing me. The Bible authors clearly considered sex for anything other than procreation to be lust, an earthly sin.
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Please show me where in the New Testament it says what you are saying
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In the post above!
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The Bible never says sexual desires in marriage are sinful, the Bible says fornication (sex apart from marriage) & adultery is sinful, the earthly nature is anything that is against God, St. Augustine was wrong, sex in marriage is not only for procreation, & Martin Luther was wrong too, Hebrews 13:4 confirms the truth that what both St. Augustine & Martin Luther said about sex is absolutely false. Sex between a husband & his wife is never sinful
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Yes, the bible says it is sinful, but why is it ”sinful” ?
Please explain.
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Have you not been following? Because the god God says it is and he told Born From personally. No logic or reference to reality required.
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Quite. Yet I was wondering if Brandon knew of a particular verse in his bible as to why – ie it will make him go blind or his leg will fall off – or is his view as you have said via direct aural communication?
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Brandon? You on the early morning vodka?
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Miles away – want to fix that for me and delete this?
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Nah. 🙂
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Meany!
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“Quite.” – When a Brit says, “Quite,” can’t you almost hear the accent, even through the computer screen? I think of “Higgins,” from “Magnum, P. I.” —
Yeah, yeah – we’re the one’s with the accent – got it.
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Not true, “sex within marriage is pure”, nowhere in the Bible does it say, sex between a husband & his wife is sinful, nowhere in the NT does it say thinking about sex is sinful, the desire to take a married woman away from her husband is adultery, that desire is equal to having sex with a married woman, to covet another man’s wife is adultery, that’s what the New Testament says
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@BFA
When I said it is a sin I was referring to this ”Bible says fornication (sex apart from marriage) & adultery is sinful,”
This is what I was asking: why is sex outside marriage sinful.
I realise I should have been more explicit. MY apologies.
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Ark, the reason why sex apart from marriage is sinful is because a man & a woman become one flesh during sex, marriage is a man & a woman becoming one flesh, marriage is much more than a manmade ceremony, where a minister pronounces a man & a woman husband & wife, a man & a woman are married once they have sex after they decide to be husband & wife, until a man has sex with his wife, they are not one flesh, does that answer question ?
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That’s your opinion. Where in the bible does it explain why sex other than in marriage is a sin?
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1 Corinthians 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband
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1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from fornication. Every sin that a man will do is apart from his body, but whoever fornicates sins with his body
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1 Corinthians 6:15-17 Do you [who are Christian] not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! 16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For he says, “THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” 17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with him.
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No. Furthermore this refers to prostitution And this is not ”god” either, but that dipshit, who is claimed to be Saul of Tarsus
Try again.
Why is it a sin to have sex except within the confines of marriage?
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Fornication is sex apart from marriage, fornication is sin, the New Testament makes that very clear
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Listen very carefully because I am typing slowly ….W H Y?
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Ark, I have already answered your question, I agree with what the author of 1 Corinthians says, for a Christian the answer to why fornication is wrong is found in 1 Corinthians 6:18 -1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from fornication. Every sin that a man will do is apart from his body, but whoever fornicates sins with his body
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Yeah this is a statement. It says ”fornication” is a sin, what ever the frakk that is, I can understand the pitfalls of sex all over the place and one does not need to expand on that, but I am not a child and I presume neither are you. So, now, for the last time, why is it a sin to have sex other than in marriage?
Don’t quote – explain. Am I making myself understood?
For example: what about a couple who have been together for over twenty years but never formalized their union, either legally or ”in a church”?
Why are they sinning? What does this word/action mean?
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1 Corinthians 7:1 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.…
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Furthermore, why are you a Paulinite and not a Christian?
The character, Jesus of Nazareth makes no pronouncements on sex.
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Doubtless it was Paul’s own unhealthy attitudes about sex that led to his belief that the proper position was total abstinence. I’ve never really never understood why those desert nomads had such a negative attitude about sexuality, while other cultures of the Mediterranean embraced it.
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Really? It makes perfect sense. Sex for pleasure before the advent of reliable birth control made a mess of the structure of society. After reading 1 corinthians this morning on marriage I’m completely convinced Paul was a repressed homosexual. I know it’s often said, but I didn’t really take it seriously before.
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Further, in Paul’s mind, sex was for procreation only, and as he believed that the end of the world was just around the corner, what was the use of beginning a family? It was after his death that the forged Pauline letters were written, the authors seeing that the end was NOT so forthcoming as previously believed, that some of these restrictions began to be relaxed.
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Ark, I am not a Paulinite, Paul according to the New Testament was a Christian, I’m Christian, I am born of the Spirit, just as Paul was born of the Spirit, Paul was a follower of Yeshua the Messiah, just as I am a follower of Yeshua the Messiah, the New Testament makes it very clear that sex between a man & a woman who are not married is wrong, & the New Testament makes it very clear that sex between a husband & his wife is never sinful, when a man & a woman who are not married have sex, they commit sexual immorality
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Why?
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Ark, does that answer your question ?
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no. see above.
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This just goes to demonstrate, that there is not one Christian morality and that their god actually is not at all committed to any moral absolutes, even though such are often put forward as some sort of an excuse for evidence of this god existing by apologist adherents. (Wich is werid to say the least in itself.)
What it also demonstrates, is that all religious people, regardless of their particular faith, really think that their god first and foremost agrees with them, rather than that they need to agree with their god. However, the door sometimes seems to swing both ways as your previous post about stoning tells us.
It must be both somehow twistedly wonderfull and really creepy at the same time to have the authority of a god backing up one’s own opinions and in return sale have a need to submit to the most inhumane and tribally moralistic crap alledgedly promoted by this god character in some old books. Of course, recognizing the inhumanity in the “scriptures” would first require the person be sane and having healthy empathetic senses. And as we know such can be snuffed out to a certain limit from a person by childhood rearing. As in teaching kids to love an entity, that is only acting with the might makes right sort of immoral grounds.
Why would anyone be in need of such justification as to imagine some old words from a book best represent truth, or that an imaginary god from their subconscious agrees with their own intuition for their opinions? Some form of subconscious recognition of insecurity of one’s own ability to evaluate reality? Or mere herd mentality, of seeking acception from the social group they belong to and at that a more, or less deliberate attempt to refuse to take responsibility over their own descisions?
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It’s so weird. They clearly genuinely believe that their interpretation of the day is True. No sense of history or perspective at all.
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Pingback: The Day the World Stood Still | See, there's this thing called biology...
.Hey violet-
This post, and the one before it, and the one before it, and the one before it, and the one before it, etc; are lame attempts to ridicule believers or mock God.
If you were on the couch, the good doc could ask a fair question: ‘Why do you fill your mind with that which you despise…………and devote such time and attention………..unless you know it to be true?’
Then he may add: It’s really not therapeutic to continually drink from that which you consider poison.
He then may say: It is possible you know that what you try to dismiss is completely true, but your interpretion and a hard heart is causing you unnecessary grief and blindness.
What you seek by way of answers will remain elusive unless you admit God is greater than you. Heck Violet, I’m pretty sure you and all your friends couldn’t make a drop of water let alone an ocean.
He does deserve your time and attention; but in truth.
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Hey ColorStorm, your imaginary “good doc” is much like your imaginary god – imaginary.
One does not spend time to contemplate a very real social problem, in the material, observable universe, because one thinks the superstition behind it is true. That is an absurd claim you are making. How did you come to that conclusion? With the same lack of logic as you concluded there exists a particular god?
Your god is obviously unable to make any water, as it is equally unable to even defend it’s own cause without you coming here to do it for your god. As imaginary entities indeed tend to be.
Religions need to be kept in check by secular ethics all the time, or otherwise you start to burn people, or stone them to death…
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“I’m pretty sure you and all your friends couldn’t make a drop of water let alone an ocean.” – True, CS, but then your god can’t even manage to exist – at least we can do that!
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damn …bloody comments haywire again. Violet w, help
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Your god, Yahweh, is simply a made up deity. You ought to take a little time to do some genuine historical research.
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Hi CS, I did you a post answering the doc’s question:
https://violetwisp.wordpress.com/2015/05/05/clarification-for-christian-readers-iii/
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Yes you did, but the answers were kinda weak. Let’s look at your observation re. logic and superstition.
Uh Violet, it appears it is more illogical and more superstitious to believe the grand estate of Bill Gates created itself, with no blueprints, no architect, no builder, and no contractors….
Is this a fair comparison? Yes.
You say the logic of scripture is faulty? Cough cough. You say the history of scripture is faulty? Coughs more.
I’ll borrow a fav thought: it is easier to believe there is a God in heaven, and that Moses, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Rachel, lived, than it is to believe you will live to see tomorrow.
(sooner or later you will run out of tomorrows, and God will still be God, and His word just as good.)
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“I’ll borrow a fav thought: it is easier to believe there is a God in heaven, and that Moses, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Rachel, lived, than it is to believe you will live to see tomorrow.” – Ah, CS, you are SUCH a walking, scripture-spouting fallacy – there is at least a chance that I will live to see tomorrow, there is absolutely zero chance that those you list ever existed.
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@ColourStorm. First of all, for something to be “easier to belive” by any person, does not make that any more true. Does it? The tenacity at wich a nazi stormtrooper, or party official believed in their cause and were even ready to sacrifice their lives for it, does not make their cause any more true, does it? What about the Muslim suicide bomber? Once can hardly question the deepness of his conviction? But it does not mean there is a paradise awaiting him, does it? Before we go guessing and making profound descisions, we need to take a more objective method to evaluate reality, than call faith a virtue. Right?
The notion, that the named human characters in the Bible are actually based on some individuals, that once lived and around whom a story of superstitious nonsense has been told is not at all implausible. But that does not make any of the wild claims about unnatural events to have happened to them any more plausible. Or was Achilleus a real person? Was he really the son of a god?
Besides, I can make water out of steam, or from ice, a feat your god has still to perform, in addition to even achieve existing other than in the imaginations of people.
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rautakyy-
You are correct as to your ‘easier to believe’ observation not being more true; it was a point made to exaggerate the finality and certainlty of the record of they who lived, versus the uncertainty of tomorrow.
The scriptures are an accurate record keeping of the deeds of men, as well as the reliability of God’s words. The detailed accounts including the flaws of men, with places and names, remove any doubt that the words are verifiable, reliable, and accurate.
There is NO other book on earth such as the word of God. Proof? Well, the length people travel to dismiss it.
Seems I put the comment in the wrong place, and may be off topic at this site. Apologies to the host.
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“The scriptures are an accurate record keeping of the deeds of men, as well as the reliability of God’s words.” – Thus demonstrating yet again that you have absolutely no idea of how the Bible came to be.
The phrase you are so fond of touting, “In the beginning, god…..” wasn’t even written until the 500’s BCE (which was about 13.75 billion years after “the beginning“), by a group of Aaronid priests in captivity in Babylon, who, much like yourself, had no idea as to how the universe began. How any human being can remain so vacuous in the 21st Century constantly amazes and disappoints me. You’re a sad, sad man, CS.
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“The scriptures are an accurate record keeping of the deeds of men, as well as the reliability of God’s words. The detailed accounts including the flaws of men, with places and names, remove any doubt that the words are verifiable, reliable, and accurate.”
That is however not at all how we define the reliability of any historical source material. Historicity of any given character, or event in an ancient source is defined by the scientific method as applied in historical research. As for the historicity of any character in a source material has to be corroborated by an outside source. If none exists, as is the case for most of the Biblical characters (like Jesus), then they are treated as legendary characters. In most cases that means imaginary characters, but sometimes it also refers to characters based on actual people. Yet what it tells us, is that we can not possibly be very sure on anything said about these people, wether it be praise, ridicule, or description of their moral character. In any case we are not at all warranted to take the claims about these people engaging in any magical, or supernatural events, for real before anything at all supernatural has been actually demostrated to exist. And even then, if that were ever to happen we would still not be warranted to believe there was any connection to the old stories. Now would we?
Alexander Dumas describes the flaws of the Three Musketeers, but that does not make them any less fictional, does it? He also gives detailed accounts of their actions in actual historical places and with known historical characters based on actual people who once lived, that we know from several contemporary sources. None of this makes Athos, Porthos, or Aramis any more real. He never says they are the fiction of his imagination, and we do not need that admonition to deduce they are not actual personas who really lived in the 17th century. Do we?
The alledged supernatural events, or explanations to actual events in any stories, including the Bible, are even further from history and reality. Supernatural is something we have not been able to demonstrate through any even remotely objective research to exist other than in the imagination of humans. Can you?
Science is the best and very much the only method we have to come to any even remotely objective conclusions about reality and the scientific method the only one we can have any reliable data from researching history. Faith is an anathema to science. It leads to superstition and false beliefs of reality. Science can not research the unnatural, like any supernatural entities as such, but it can be used to research any claim of the supernatural actually affecting the natural reality consisting of observable, material universe. When ever it has been employed in that purpose, it has only yilded information that give a natural explanation. On occasion it has not given any results, but that does not confirm anything supernatural at all, it only tells us that this much about the reality we do not know. Beliefs in the supernatural are therefore totally unwarranted.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, yes? Not faith.
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Okay, just as long as you saw the reply. I don’t think I can muster a reply for your favourite thought. If you think that makes sense we are on divergent planes of logic.
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Love thy neighbor as thyself.
If a man understand all mysteries and bestow all his goods to feed the poor, and though he give his body to be burned, but have not charity, it profits him nothing.
A wise son makes a glad father.
Husbands love your wives, as Christ loved the church, and gave Himself for it………….
Children obey your parents………..
Grace, mercy, and peace be upon you………
Yeah, rautakky, words describing a real social problem.
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Oh, please ColourStorm. Is it not typical for social problems to be cloacked in all sorts of proclamations for good?
Love thy neighbour like thyself – exept if that “neighbour” is attacking you perhaps? What about when the “neighbour” does not share your faith? Is it loving to think that this “neighbour” desreves an eternal torment for having different views and opinions, than your imaginary god that never interferes in anything? What if that neighbour does not have the same idea of their own sexuality as you and your god happen to share? Is it loving then to deny them equal rights with you?
A moral person does not help the poor because he tries to “profit” in it, but because it is the right thing to do. Because that is the society the moral person rather would choose to live in. One in wich the poor is being helped.
Wise son makes a glad father, but only if the father is wise enough to recognize his sons wisdom. Right?
Christ did not, nor could he even, love the church, it had not been established even when he was still about. Remember?
Children obey your parents… Blindly? Unless those parents are total monsters, perhaps?
Grace mercy and “Deus Vult” upon you and if you do not comply, let you be burned in this life at the stake or at the eternal alledged but totally unverified afterlife. Yeah right, it is a social problem. Is it not?
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I’m sorry to report rautakyy that we are too many miles apart; but perhaps V. may like to address the point made to her.
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Hahaha, ColourStorm, too many miles apart for what? To meet on the field of honour to see wich one of us is right by the judical combat in which your god stands as the ultimate judge who grants victory to the one who is right? You have heard of this? That for centuries and generations Christians were convinced, this was true. No gods ever appeared to tell them they were wrong, but eventually people figured it out. That the stronger and more adept dude tends to win such contests and no gods take part at any stage. Have you ever wondered why?
I’ll be glad to let Violet take over, as she is quite capable to defend her own views.
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@ rautakyy
Don’t mean to insult you friend, but you are like the proverbial Goliath of Gath with borrowed strength, and a boastful mouth of resistance; so there is no real contest, seeing you are at a supreme disadvantage; and all is needed is one smooth stone.
That stone? The living God and His word.
(By the way, the ‘concerns’ posed by the doc were actually relevant and valid)
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Nicest piece of writing I’ve seen from you!
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Too funny V; maybe you’ll come around to see what’s on page two 😉
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The Jews were relatively few in number, surrounded by powerful enemies – the OT is full of stories of the “David & Goliath” caliber, stories of a few going against the many and prevailing – I liken these to half-time, locker room pep talks, to bolster the courage of a losing team, “Now get out there and win one for the Gipper!”
When they were finally trounced soundly by the Syrians, the Babylonians and gave up without a fight to the Greeks and the Romans, they blamed their losses on their own “sinfullness.” Nonsense! They simply went up against a superior enemy.
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I am not in the least bit insulted by the comparrison to a mighty warrior in a fancifull story who revelled in his time, was considered superior in his skill and strength and was finally defeated not by an even mightier man, but obviously by sheer luck of an underdog. He never met his match, but yet he died with his boots on. Not a bad fate for a redblooded man like myself. Not a bad fate at all. Would you say?
I fail to see how this is relevant to anything we have discussed as of yet, though.
By the way… The medieval depictions of Goliath are actually a particularly interresting source for research of medieval military equipment, that happens to interrest me a lot.
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“medieval military equipment, that happens to interrest me a lot.” – No! Really? I thought you only dressed like that because you ride the subway!
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I must admit that the picture is a bit old, but the helmet in the picture happenst to be exactly like a particular depiction of Goliath from the early 14th century.
A nother great source is the often in medieval art depicted “the slaughter of the innocents”. Now, if I ever was compared and equalled with that Christian storyline, I would be offended. Only religiously deluded people would consider that story to describe a benevolent and at the same time all-mighty deity. A god that supposedly sends his son only to die for humanity, but instead of letting him be killed right away, looks idly by as others are massacred on his behalf… What a vile monster.
And yes, I have from time to time travelled through the city to my work with my suit of armour on. 😉
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That’s cool rautakyy; your helmet lends an indication.
But Goliath is still dead, and God is still God.
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Indeed ColourStorm, and Gandalf still rose from the dead and Ugluk is still dead.
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Ugluk is dead? I didn’t even know he was sick!
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Oh yeah, he bought it, when Eomer killed him. I heard that Eomer respected him so much so, as a war leader, that he (Eomer) stepped down from his high horse to kill him in single combat.
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So THAT’S where the phrase, “Get off your high horse!” came from – good to know!
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You’re right CS, Raut would go way over your head. Thanks for your comment though, I appreciate your take on things. You might have inspired a post, but in the meantime this should answer some of your questions about why I do this: https://violetwisp.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/clarification-for-christian-readers/
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Your god, Yahweh, is simply a made up deity. You ought to take a little time to do some genuine historical research.
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The picture chosen to introduce this post is interesting. Are you aware of how ducks have sex? It’s extremely brutal and violent and not at all pleasant, I would imagine for the female ones.
As far as sex and Christianity I think people focus too much on what God prohibits and not why. When sex is used for purely physical purposes or to fill some hidden need (need to be validated, liked, popular, etc….) it can be extremely damaging to both parties but especially women, who are physically designed to experience a strong rush of chemicals that promote emotional bonding while having sex that continue long after the act. Being emotionally entwined with someone that uses you for physical relief is not a place anyone should want to be, even if they are fooling themselves by claiming not to care or that the sex is so good it does not matter how they are being treated outside if it.
I would argue dead, emotionless sex both within and without marriage are not what God intends and His “rules” on how to behave lead us to a much, much better place when followed.
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Great point about the ducks! Perfect image for this post, unwilling partners and all.
Are you suggesting deathbed sex might not actually be recommended then?
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It really depends on the people involved. The woman in the quote referenced in your post implies that she would freely give to her husband even while dying which I don’t see as a problem. Sex between two people utterly committed and subservient to each other is a beautiful act and what I believe God intends for us. The bonds of marriage make that commitment and subservience more possible, if, of course they are both putting Christ first. I’d be a fool to say that most marriages are like this though as the sad rate of divorce plainly states otherwise.
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The single major problem with this though is Yahweh is a narrative construct, a work of fiction .
So, in actual fact, you are taking sexual council from an ancient man who claims he is speaking through this god.
And that is simply disgusting.
If that’s your idea of morality …well …
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Ok Ark, I’ll be sure to take that under consideration.
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Sarcasm so early in our tete a tete?
Tsk Tsk.
But surely you know the history of Yahweh?
And old Canaanite god adopted by the Israelites. And he had a consort too.
You now this I’m sure.
So, seriously, why on earth take advice from this ”god”?
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I can’t imagine where I’d pick up that sarcasm sarcasm…;) Follow God, don’t follow God, that’s not for me to decide, of you, nor you of me.
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So you feel perfectly at home following the precepts for sex, loosely laid down by some ancient man who is blatantly telling lies when any reference about Yahweh is raised?
My question is why?
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I think the Epicureans had it right. Brazilians seem to embrace that notion while remaining staunchly Catholic.
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And that’s why confession and absolution was invented, so people could do what comes naturally, then come in and get forgiven before going out to do it again.
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Ya know Arch, I don’t disagree with you…at least on the part where some people use confession as an excuse to keep sinning.
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I always feel a little twinge when a Christian agrees with me – I find myself going back over my comment to see where I might have used the wrong word. But yes, joking aside, we don’t disagree, at least not on that.
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I would bet Arch that if people stopped looking at others through the prisms of their own stereotypes (myself included), we would agree on much and empathize more where we don’t.
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This is why I like you – unlike most Christians, you make sense.
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Arch, a Christian is a person that repents of his or her sinful ways, those who claim to be Christian that do not stop practicing sin, are not born of the Spirit, which means they are not Christian, no one led by the Spirit, will commit fornication, murder, adultery, no one led by the Spirit will molest a child, or commit rape, or any other evil act that the flesh makes a person do. The Holy Spirit is what stops a Christian from practicing sin, the Catholic church is full of priests who molest children, those priests are not led by the Spirit, therefore they are not Christian, the New Testament says that those who claim to be Christian that practice sin are to be removed from the church (1 Corinthians 5:9-13), any church (group of people) that claims to be Christian that does the opposite of what 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 says, is not led by the Spirit, which means they are not Christian.
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There are no spirits.
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Can’t type much with my sore hands Violet, but I wanted to say how much I love your ducky. I think the ducks and flowering trees are my favorites!
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Oh no! Sorry to hear that, I’ve been missing your sharp commentary. Hope they feel a bit better soon. Think that’s my last duck for now, I’ll have to get down the park with my camera.
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I looked up duck sex last night due to a comment on your blog, and had the education of the lifetime! Corkscrew male-parts and duck rape…who knew??? I’ve learned more from your blog Vi, on all sorts of issues, than I learned in university.
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Throws a whole new light on getting screwed, doesn’t it?
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And you thought the Duck was saying to the Drake,”Duck off”.
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Well I think we can discount anything Martin Luther had to say about sex when one considers that he was reportedly a coprophile – he got off on his own faeces,
I find it highly amusing that so many Christians think that sex is not meant to be pleasurable, particularly for women, when their omnipotent deity, if he existed, supplied a couple of dead giveaways for that.
Firstly, the clitoris; an organ with one sole purpose – to stimulate and heighten sexual pleasure.
Secondly, there is a way to similarly excite men, to stimulate the prostate gland. And what is the best way of stimulating the prostate? By inserting something up the anus, that’s how.
There are many Christians think sex is bad for one. Personally I think it’s great for one, but it’s much more fun with two – or more. 😉
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I don’t think many Christians these days follow the biblical line on sex. They’ve decided they can be as lustful as they please within marriage. I’m trying to bring them back to the Word. 🙂
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Sorry if this has already been posted upthread.
Attitudes towards sex recorded in the Song of Solomon [in the Bible]:
The Shulamite girl:
1:13 A bundle of myrrh is my beloved to me,
That lies all night between my breasts.
2:6 His left hand is under my head,
And his right hand embraces me.
It is clear from this small book from the Old Testament that the attitude towards sex was clearly for pleasure and procreation. This point is reinforced by the fact that Solomon [author] had hundreds of wives and concubines. Many of the patriarchs of Israel maintained multiple wives. When King David was old and his circulation was failing, they bought him a young beautiful virgin to hot-him-up a bit. What were they thinking?
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Not many Christians live by the rules and attitudes in the Old Testament. However, apart from the New Testament passages I quote above in the post and the comments, there are OT passages that are relevant as well.
“Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away” Deuteronomy 17:17
“So the Lord said to Solomon, “Since this is your attitude and you have not kept my covenant and my decrees, which I commanded you, I will most certainly tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your subordinates.” 1 Kings 11:11
Are you suggesting that Jesus, Paul, St Augustine and Luther were all wrong about celibacy, sex and lust? I think that would make you a confused person of no particular religion. Or maybe a Mormon?
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violetwisp said:
You have a hit and a miss here.
Your quote concerning Deut.17:17 is correct. I would suggest it was a case of like father [David] like son [Solomon].
But in 1Kings 11:11 The punishment is because he built high places for idols, it is not a chastisement for his [Solomon’s] attitude towards sex.
I would certainly question Luther and possibly St Augustine, not Jesus or Paul. The problem I see here is your atheist perspective. God created sex, it didn’t evolve. God created it pleasurable. If you don’t believe this you will look at it from a strange angle and draw wrong conclusions. So it becomes a matter of joining the dots. God made sex. God married/joined Adam and Eve and commanded them to be fruitful. If they didn’t enjoy sex, they would not continue with it.
You can think/say what you like on your blog.
I think your misunderstanding stems from the fact that you do not know your creator. Please don’t take that as an insult.
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“I think your misunderstanding stems from the fact that you do not know your creator.” – My creators were my mother and father, I’m surprised that no one has ever explained to you how that works —
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